Sexual Harassment regulations at the office

[Marc Chevalier]

Let me give you an example of what I consider balanced behavior.

In Chile, construction workers high up in the buildings (never the ones at street level, for some reason) like to whistle and say things to women passing by. They're not picky -- the woman in question doesn't have to be goddesses, or even particularly youthful. And most importantly, the things the workers say AREN'T dirty or degrading. So, what do they say? "Piropos." Piropos are lightly flirtatious plays-on-words. Two examples:



-- "Did I just fall from my scaffold? Because I swear I'm seeing an angel!"

-- "I need my sunglasses! A ray of sunshine just walked by."



Chilean women don't feel threatened because the men are high up in the building, not next to them on the street. Neither can see the other very well, in any case. And who couldn't help but smile at little comments like the ones above?

Every Chilean women I ever met has enjoyed the "piropos". Most feel disappointed if they walk by a construction site and receive none. In fact, they resolve to wear a nicer outfit next time! lol

 

[Jake Sullivan]

I work as a Paramedic in a small hospital. What you say greatly depends on the department in which you say it. We have had several complaints in the business office about harrassment but virtually none in the ER. I wonder if it could be that we have other things to worry about other than unwarranted harassment complaints. If I tell a nurse she looks nice today, they consider it a compliment smile and say thank you.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I work in an engineering environment. Male predominated but more women now, especially in support roles.

We have a few gentlemen that say things that should not be said, and would be construed as harassment by some people.

Examples include. "why dont the secretaries wear those short skirts anymore' and comments about people's posteriors...etc...

I once was reconnecting a router under a conference room table and upon extracting myself (probably not too gracefully and unfortunatly bottom end first) one particular man made a comment amounting to 'hey wait, do that again'......

Now yes, I could turn them in, but would that really change the person fundamentally? People don't learn to respect based on being sent to a 'sensitivity class'.

But this rolls into Mr. Deckards thread.....why would I -want- to wear a dress to work, when thats the sort of things that get said?

 

[VintageJess]

In the corporate environment I work in you say absolutely nothing personal to anyone, comment on anything personal, ask anything personal, or offer anything personal, ever.

If you want to talk, you talk about work or the Red Sox; that's about it.

Yes, I think there needs to be a balance, but with lawyers and HR reps at the ready, I doubt we'll ever achieve it.

Or, as I saw last night on "The Office:"
"You complained to HR about me?"
"I was only venting."
"Yeah, to your HR Rep."

And as a former HR Manager for a Fortune 500, I have to say that the lawyers and Department of Labor was what kept me up at night. Even the slightest hint or allegation required a full investigation and documentation. Granted, there were certainly instances where such measures were necessary, but a lot of it ended up being a bunch of wasted time. I believe much of it stems from the fact that we have become such a litigious society...I was always bracing myself for the next threat of a lawsuit.

I think a lot the nonsense could be avoided if people--both men and women--would use good common sense and manners, ladies acting like ladies and gentlemen being gentlemen.

Jessica

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Miss Neecerie, what those men said in your working environment was crass and insulting. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the women who hear them. When I hear men talk that way in front of women, my first thought isn't that "Their place of work should stop them!" Instead, I think, "Their parents and other adult figures (including teachers) should have been able to nip that behavior in the bud!"

 

[LolitaHaze]

I was about to say something similar!

Miss Neecerie, what those men said in your working environment was crass and insulting. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the women who hear them. When I hear men talk that way in front of women, my first thought isn't that "Their place of work should stop them!" Instead, I think, "Their parents and other adult figures (including teachers) should have been able to nip this behavior in the bud!"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I think a lot the nonsense could be avoided if people--both men and women--would use good common sense and manners, ladies acting like ladies and gentlemen being gentlemen.

Those construction workers in Chile are raised to be better-behaved than many from the so-called "better classes" here.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Miss Neecerie, what those men said in your working environment was crass and insulting. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the women who hear them. When I hear men talk that way in front of women, my first thought isn't that "Their place of work should stop them!" Instead, I think, "Their parents and other adult figures (including teachers) should have been able to nip that behavior in the bud!"

Oh agreed...and since I don't think that work based 'correction' does much of anything..I choose not to make an issue of it. I dress down, although I do wear makeup, comb my hair, etc...I tend to wear the Tech uniform of trousers and shirt combo....and just get on with my job.

Thankfully I don't really care what any of them think, and am not trying to express my personality here, so regardless of how I would prefer to dress at home, work becomes a different matter.

Maybe I just need to switch to really severe suits all the time.....but that wouldnt work either..because one man has a thing about women in things like that too.....

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Maybe I just need to switch to really severe suits all the time.....but that wouldnt work either..because one man has a thing about women in things like that too.....

You can't win :eusa_doh:

 

[Jake Sullivan]

I agree with Mr.Chevalier. If you report something and nothing becomes of it ( i.e termination) that you are labeled a troublemaker which could make work routines more difficult for you. just my 2 cents

 

[Hemingway Jones]

And as a former HR Manager for a Fortune 500, I have to say that the lawyers and Department of Labor was what kept me up at night. Even the slightest hint or allegation required a full investigation and documentation. Granted, there were certainly instances where such measures were necessary, but a lot of it ended up being a bunch of wasted time. I believe much of it stems from the fact that we have become such a litigious society...I was always bracing myself for the next threat of a lawsuit.

I think a lot the nonsense could be avoided if people--both men and women--would use good common sense and manners, ladies acting like ladies and gentlemen being gentlemen.

Jessica

Well said, Jessica! My exact sentiments, stated more eloquently.

 

[scotrace]

How's this:

I am the one male in an office with nine women (which means I am paid less than any other male in the company, but that's another issue).

I say "new hair?" or "nice outfit." and that's it. Anything else would be out of bounds, of course. I wouldn't want to say anything else, except maybe "do those shoes really work with that skirt?"

Inside a cupboard door, the ladies had taped up a dozen or so pictures or postcards of men mostly naked. This is a cupboard from which I have to get office supplies. I don't have any such pictures of women anywhere in my office.
I didn't really care and it didn't bother me, until I realized it was just not a good idea to have them there and instructed that they be removed. This was about the same a time a "formal" harrassment policy was adopted.

It can go both ways. Men can be or feel harrassed as well.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Men can be or feel harrassed as well.

But did you actually feel harassed by the presence of those photos? In other words, is it harassment if someone doesn't feel harassed?


.

 

[scotrace]

Only in that what little the men in the pictures were wearing was really, really hideous.

And ballcaps.

 

[mysterygal]

It is of my opinion that for the most part... it is only sexual harrasment if the person doesn't find the other attractive.

maybe for some people I don't care how attractive a guy may be, if someone were to grab my rear, they're getting slapped..I think most people can use a little common sense when it comes to this. Pats on the back and so forth are completely harmless...what I deem as sexual harrassment is when it's a blantanly sexual touch or comment.

 

[mysterygal]

But did you actually feel harassed by the presence of those photos? In other words, is it harassment if someone doesn't feel harassed?

of course not, if the person is not feeling harrassed then there is no issue is there?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Yes.

The problem these days is agreeing on what sexual harassment is. Around here, we seem to be thinking along the same lines. The outside world is a different story.

 

[KAT]

i used to work just with girls! its horrible!
nobody ever gave ME compliments...so i guess if i would work with guys and they would come up to me and say " how lovely you look today" i would just think " oh what a nice compliment"
americans in general like to give you compliments and always come up to people and try to talk (thats my experience and im not used to that), so i think i wouldnt even know the difference between harassment and being friendly and nice like most of them always are!

It can go both ways. Men can be or feel harrassed as well.

thats an important fact...but nobody ever thinks of it this way

 

[Hemingway Jones]

I think the extent of a compliment you can say in the corporate world is "You look very professional." That's the one I would use.

 

[mysterygal]

getting a compliment is totally different than getting harrassed...I love getting compliments myself, who doesn't? it makes us feel good...if you were being harrassed, you'd know it..example, "hey baby, love that blouse, would look even better off of you" that's harrassment, it was uncalled for and probably the end result was not making you feel better but cheap.