Sexual Harassment regulations at the office

[scotrace]

The problem is finding the line. And everyone has a different line. And that line is in a different place for every person. AND it moves with the occasion and environment. Some people can't juggle all those elements and behave/be graceful. It's a matter of personality, upbringing, manners, breeding.

"You look very nice. Is that a new dress?"

"That's a really nice necklace. Do you have a collection?"

******

"Those heels do nice things for your legs."

"You make that skirt look like a million bucks."

Also, here in this environment we miss nuance and inflection. "That's a really nice necklace" is innocent enough unless you're staring south of a woman's eyes while speaking.

With a moving sensitivity target, it's best to follow Hem's example and shut up. Especially since charm, manners and breeding are in rather short supply.

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

If you wouldn't want someone to say it to your sister, don't say it.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Don't know if that's the best person to choose as an example. Some guys -- usually the most macho ones -- are unreasonably protective of their sisters.

 

[mysterygal]

that's what gets me, is that giving a compliment should not cause a problem...people have gotten so weird over these things and it's sad that everybody has to bring in this fear factor of not stepping on anybody's toes or the threat of getting sued. It should be perfectly acceptable to compliment one's attire...as long as while you were saying the compliment you were looking into that person's eyes instead of *ahem* somewhere else? all I can say is that it's a shame what all this has come to and it's just plain ridiculous

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

Isn't there a certain way you would like a decent man to approach your sister?

 

[mysterygal]

Don't know if that's the best person to choose as an example. Some guys -- usually the most macho ones -- are unreasonably protective of their sisters.

I think that was what she was getting at....if you think it will offend your sister, then better keep those lips shut

 

[scotrace]

Changed my mind

I just wrote this as a PM to Marc, then thought I'd put it here, at my own peril:

It really IS an excellent thread.

Honestly, having women enter the workforce alongside men (decades ago) created problems that have at length been answered with "OK, NOBODY talks or touches!"

So how is a guy who appreciates women in general supposed to not admire a nicely-turned calf, an especially flattering sweater, or, maybe toughest of all, avoid catching a bit of lovely perfume without saying something complimentary?
You can't. You have to shut that part of male-ness OFF. And women can't wear those things because it invites trouble. So NOBODY talks or touches!

It removes something from both sexes and is another step on the path toward genderlessness.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Isn't there a certain way you would like a decent man to approach your sister?

Yes ... but I'm not sure if my sister (if I had one!) would appreciate me smothering her with overprotectiveness. Heck, maybe she'd like that "decent man" to be, well, a bit less "decent" with her ... if she's attracted to him.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I agree, Scotrace. We should try to find a center, instead of continuing to move toward an extreme.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Yes.

that's what gets me, is that giving a compliment should not cause a problem...people have gotten so weird over these things and it's sad that everybody has to bring in this fear factor of not stepping on anybody's toes or the threat of getting sued. It should be perfectly acceptable to compliment one's attire...as long as while you were saying the compliment you were looking into that person's eyes instead of *ahem* somewhere else? all I can say is that it's a shame what all this has come to and it's just plain ridiculous

It ain't watcha say it's the way that ya say it.
I think most people would really know the differance between a sincere and harmless compliment and a leering come-on.
It is ridiculous! :eusa_doh: It's just the corporate way of playing it safe.
.

 

[mysterygal]

I just wrote this as a PM to Marc, then thought I'd put it here, at my own peril:

It really IS an excellent thread.

Honestly, having women enter the workforce alongside men (decades ago) created problems that have at length been answered with "OK, NOBODY talks or touches!"

So how is a guy who appreciates women in general supposed to not admire a nicely-turned calf, an especially flattering sweater, or, maybe toughest of all, avoid catching a bit of lovely perfume without saying something flattering?
You can't. You have to shut that part of male-ness OFF. And women can't wear those things because it invites trouble. So NOBODY talks or touches!

It removes something from both sexes and is another step on the path toward genderlessness.

It probably also depends on who you are dealing with. I still think the issue has gotten way out of hand...the reason why a girl wears perfume is for it to be appreciated, along with everything else....and turning of the male-ness part of you is probably impossible...me and the mister have had talks about this actually and it's very normal to appreciate a thing of beauty and say ,wow, now that looks nice...I know my husband sees beautiful women, but I"m not offended by him appreciating them, because it's a two way street, I also appreciate a well dressed man..doesn't mean either one of us are mentaly undressing the other person but there's a part that is enjoyable about the opposite sex.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It's just the corporate way of playing it safe.

Corporations think in terms of profit and loss. They're playing it safe in reaction to situations that hurt their profits. Those situations are sexual harassment lawsuits and, to some extent, the bad publicity that lawsuits engender.

I do think that some of these lawsuits have merit. Some don't, but who can know how many (or how few)? Perhaps businesses are reacting in the only way they know how.

.

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

Yes ... but I'm not sure if my sister (if I had one!) would appreciate me smothering her with overprotectiveness. Heck, maybe she'd like that "decent man" to be, well, a bit less "decent" with her ... if she's attracted to him.

Not on the job! It doesn't work that way.
I didn't say you should smother your sister with protectiveness, silly.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I wouldn't be able to help it!

 

[mysterygal]

Corporations think in terms of profit and loss. They're playing it safe in reaction to situations that hurt their profits. Those situations are sexual harassment lawsuits and, to some extent, the bad publicity that lawsuits engender.

I do think that some of these lawsuits have merit. Some don't, but who can know how many (or how few)? Perhaps businesses are reacting in the only way they know how.

.

very true...though I bet you most of these lawsuits do not have merit...it is as the saying goes, it only takes one bad apple

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

Even strip clubs have rules about not touching.

 

[scotrace]

Even strip clubs have rules about not touching.

And a rather relaxed dress code.


Also: What's the point in going?

 

[mysterygal]

I wouldn't be able to help it!

you know though, even though my brother was younger than I was, I really liked him being the protector of me...the bonus of it all was that he was quite the fighter so, I felt pretty safe not getting any gruff from anyone!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Even strip clubs have rules about not touching.

Are we still allowed to look?

 

[mysterygal]

And a rather relaxed dress code.


Also: What's the point in going?

EXACTLY! I've wondered why in the world men pay money just to be teased...with me, if I can't have it then why bother with it...why put yourself in that kind of frustration? [huh]
with the no touching rule....it's pretty darn ironic, isn't it?!