Harking for a simpler time.....

[bunnyb.gal]

:eusa_clap

 

[Blackjack]

Lizzie is one schmart gal... I was going to use a friend as an example who recently moved to Arizona. (Not you Rue) She had never been west but by everything she'd heard about it and what she knew about the climate, job market, style and food of the area, she always wanted to live there. Not visit, move there. We were sitting in a lounge one night and everyone was poo pooing her saying oh your crazy Dina, how do you know you'll like it there, it'll be too hot, you won't like this and that and blah blah blah. She applied for a job as a nursing manager at a hospital in Phoenix, got it, packed up and moved and she absolutely loves it there. You don't necessarily have to have been somewhere to know if you'd like it, sometimes you just know.

 

[Stearmen]

This whole conversation reminds me of the old racing adage, "the older I get, the better I was!" Don't worry, I'm guilty of longing for a past I never new. Oh how I would love to have been a Boing China Clipper Captain. I know it lasted just a little over a decade, but what a time! If I could just win the lottery and buy that Grumman Goose.

 

[scotrace]

Forgive me, but I think you both are deluding yourselves by the notion that you’d necessarily be happier living back then. You (we all for that matter) have no choice but to view previous eras through modern eyes. As a result there is no immediacy of context for us, no uncertainty from moment to moment or day to day, no opposing forces to influence our choices and effect our circumstances. The trouble is that we know how it all turned out, for better or for worse, and unless a psychologist can elaborate otherwise, I really don’t think you deny that - you just can’t un-know what you know. Sure we can dream about living in earlier times, and I’ve done it myself, but without the exigencies and realities that gave meaning to the original context, we have no actual investment in the reality of another time period. Thus we pick and choose what makes up our impression and understanding of that era and in the end it all remains a fantasy, wearing costumes and play acting, nostalgia for times we never new. However, I might suggest that one can certainly, though perhaps only at best, aspire to those qualities and aspects which make a certain era appealing - facilitated of course by various garb, accoutrements and period methods - a fun and entertaining exercise to be sure.

Maybe you would be happier living in a previous era, who is anyone to say otherwise, unfortunately that’s something you’ll never be able to know; that knowledge simply does not exist.

As Lizzie expressed far better than I can, that's not so. Many of us have direct, first-hand knowledge of that world, especially those of us who grew up away from urban centers, where the 60's looked very like the 40's. And we knew those who were adults during the 20's-50's while they were fit of mind and body, as they were our parents. They didn't wistfully sugarcoat: they had clear memories of the bitter and the batter and shared them, warts and all.

The Fedora Lounge has a mission of making exactly what you are saying inaccurate. We aren't "playing dress up" here, nor are we delusional. We are quite serious about what we collectively know and preserve.

 

[Hercule]

I really don't think it is confusing calendar with culture. For the sake of this forum aren't they essentially the same thing? This forum titled "Golden Era" which is specifically defined : "1930's-1940's: The Apex of Style! Oceanliners, skyscrapers, automobiles, airplanes, architecture, and home décor". People of course stretch that into the 50s and 60s for the purposes of discussion.

Anyway, it's probably time for me to desist and admit that the blind shall never be made to see (which, though my failing at the fine art of rhetoric, is certainly their prerogative) and that my arguments are purely academic.

 

[scottyrocks]

I can remember back to at leas the mid-'60s, in Brooklyn, NY, where neither men nor women didn't go outside dressed like slobs even for normal everyday reasons. Styles were certainly different than in the 30s and 40s, and the TV was really the only modern contrivance that for all practical purposes, didn't exist back then.

Kids had manners, for the most part, schools were not out of control, and small businesses on 'the avenue' were the norm.

But the feel of the place was very much what I would have expected twenty to thirty years prior. Electronics, and the opening of the world since home video, computers and cell phones came along, hadn't begun to change culture the way it has as of today. There was an innocence, even in the 60s, in Brooklyn, that was considerably more comparable to the 1930s and 40s than to the 2000s and 10s (so far).

 

[HOP UP]

WOW I havent had a chance to check back on this thread since the OP and Ive read each and every post, great input !!

Some fantastic insights for sure.

I think the spirit of the original post was intimating that its the MAGNITUDE of the changes that have taken place as well as the IMPACT on social order and how we interact with one another as human beings that have people looking to the past with perhaps rose colored glasses.

As mentioned on another post these are the things that perhaps most people can relate to and have possibly been exposed to thriought their parents or grandparents depending on their ages :


"The male/female defined roles
The Music
WWII - the history, effects and people.
The vernacular
Cinema
Values
Family
The Pragmatism
The thriftiness
The delayed Gratification
The Decorum
The Honesty
Devotion to duty
Hope
Respect
Honor
The Cars
The Buildings
The Dance Clubs
Art Deco
Streamline Design
Mid Century Modern architecture/design
Clip Art
The Clothes
The Accessories
Orignal and timeless designs

Everything that today's sanitised, over-regulated, over-controlled, overly corporate, insanely politically correct, nothing original anymore world lacks."

And I feel most of us RELATE to the above in many ways.

I believe Lizzy said it best - all the changes seem to have nothing to do with the era and everything to do with the zeitgeist.

S0cial engineering both then and now in my humble opion has not changed. Its just that now, with technology, it has become that much more pervasive, intrusive and overwhelming.

HOP UP

 

[Feraud]

I don't think there's any such thing as a "simpler" time. I'd gladly settle for a less idiotic one.

Ain't it the truth.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The idea of current technology being overwhelming and intrusive is a very apt observation -- there is very little in daily life today that doesn't have modern tech wound up in it one way or another. Even your car key has a computer chip in it, even something as simple as buying a quart of milk or a gallon of gas insinuates High Tech between you and the vendor -- in many cases, there's no human contact left at all. When I was a kid, a gas station was as much a social center as it was a place of business -- people loafed around and gossiped, kids watched the mechanic or begged for a Fire Cheif hat or a plastic dinosaur or an aluminum coin with Chester A. Arthur on it, or bought a handful of stale peanuts and a Coke -- but now you can fill your tank and be off without so much as seeing another human being, and certainly without having to have any contact with anyone. Going to the bank or the post office was another important center of social connection -- but now, when you bank by ATM and pay your bills online, where's the human connection?

We've traded social cohesion for convenience, and I say we've gotten the far worst of the bargain.

 

[Feraud]

It is perfectly sane and rational for a person to not see any value in corporate intrusions into our lives.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The idea of current technology being overwhelming and intrusive is a very apt observation -- there is very little in daily life today that doesn't have modern tech wound up in it one way or another ...

We've traded social cohesion for convenience, and I say we've gotten the far worst of the bargain.

I had the chance to see this change roll forward in extremely fast motion: in Chile.


When I arrived there in 1998, daily life --even in the capital, Santiago-- was still as Lizzie described it. By 2005, when I left for good, Santiago had become what the United States is now: technologically alienating. Seeing such a vast change occur within seven short years ... well, it was a shock. Many Chileans keenly felt the loss of a socially-centered, face-to-face world so quickly rendered 'obsolete', but they didn't know how to stop the juggernaut of 'progress' -- at first.


Today, increasing numbers of Chileans, from high school students to pensioners, are rising up in protest. They know what they've lost, and they're no longer going to let an international corporatist mindset stick it to them.

 

[kps]

It is perfectly sane and rational for a person to not see any value in corporate intrusions into our lives.

Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go...

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's a reason why I refuse to use a debit card or credit card in any everyday shopping. Cash only.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Going to the bank or the post office was another important center of social connection -- but now, when you bank by ATM and pay your bills online, where's the human connection?

With the advent of direct deposit (particularly of Social Security) and automatic bill pay I've noticed an increase in the macabre phenomenon of people found dead in their homes months or even years after they died, with the water, gas and electricity still running. In one such case a woman was found in her home who had been dead for several years. In all that time her ex-husband would come every week to mow the lawn but never went in the house.

It is perfectly sane and rational for a person to not see any value in corporate intrusions into our lives.

It's bad enough when something that I've never seen as such is called an "art." But what's really frightening is when that "art" becomes a "science."

 

[scottyrocks]

I was famous for not having enough money in my pocket for any given occasion, great or small. Automated cash machines were a life- (or date-) saver for me at times. Other than that, I do miss many of the old-fashioned ways.

Up the road from me, in a direction I don't normally travel, yesterday I saw a good old-fashioned drug store, not one of the many huge Walgreens/CVS/Rite-Aids around here. I'm gonna have to stop in and see if I can get a whiff of a part of my good ol' days, as in going to the drug store on Ralph Ave when I was a kid.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Everything is direct deposit. I asked for a paper check when I started at the plant and I can't get one if I wanted one, yet they give me a voided paper check to show proof of payment. Makes no sense, why can't I just get a normal check? They did that at my old job, too after some time. I used to always just got my check and paid cash for everything. Now, you gotta have that darn debit card all the time.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

What if you don't have a bank account and keep all your savings under the mattress?
Now there's something very vintage.

 

[rue]

What if you don't have a bank account and keep all your savings under the mattress?
Now there's something very vintage.

That's actually not a bad idea....

My great grandparents kept their money in a cedar trunk, because they didn't trust the banks and they survived the crash.

 

[Indyoriginal]

I've been lurking around for some time here, but the subject and responses to this post really speak to me. In regards to all of 'us' longing for a self-projected illusion of the past that never existed - I strongly disagree. I am relatively young (24) and thankfully thus far have been relatively successful (for a member of my generation that is, who has woken up with a multitude of hangovers passed down from previous generations’ partying). I say this simply to point out that I do not feel ostracized by society for lack of socio-economic means, popularity with my peers, etc., etc. However, to get back to the point I’d like to argue – the past, particularly ‘The Golden Era,’ really was better in many (most?) ways. The reason I feel so strongly that this is true is because I’ve been fortunate enough to be around all of my grandparents for extensive periods of time. Not to get into any political debates, but one set of them are Roosevelt-loving, big government liberals, and the other set Ron Paul supporting, tear down the government conservatives. They grew up in the 20s and 30s in vastly different circumstances (Midwestern plains vs. Brooklyn), and went on to very different careers, and yet, they all tell me of the years when this country, and this society was vastly superior. Not only do they tell me how superior things were back then, I can see it in the way they live and have lived their lives. At only 24 years old, I see a shocking difference even just between members of my generation, and the kids I’ve been exposed to through family and friends. I know relatively young children who are literally sucked into the machine from age 3 on – constantly attached to a gaming system, computer, or smartphone for hours and hours each day. There is no such thing as playing outside anymore, just as there is no such thing as allowing your children to play outside. Who knows what could happen to them if you’re foolish enough to let your brood explore the world around them. From my personal experience, they will probably end up drunk, high, pregnant…or perhaps all three simultaneously. Without turning this into an all-out rant, I’d like to conclude my remarks with a more analytical statement. The only constant in life and in this world that we live in is change. And as someone who is paid to analyze these changes that occur around us, I firmly believe that that is one of the only constants you can rely on – change in the form of technology and in the nature of human interaction. Basically, all that this means to me is that society is never going to get back to the way it was…things will always keep changing, for better or (mostly) for worse. I know and accept this. That said, I still find it exceedingly difficult to look at the world around me, with the values imbued in me from my childhood, without thinking that the world has lost its mind in a thread of code buried deep in some hollowed-out building packed full of servers running algorithms designed to rip me off a cent at a time. Wish we could go back, or at least import some of that bygone era’s simplicity and decency.

*As well, fedoras and clipper planes rule.

 

[Feraud]

It's bad enough when something that I've never seen as such is called an "art." But what's really frightening is when that "art" becomes a "science."

What makes it worse is when people submit to this and call it "progress".