Harking for a simpler time.....

[Zombie_61]

I think "manners," so called, are overrated.

I think the kind of people who punctiliously follow everything Emily Post said to do are, generally speaking, the kind of people who want to make sure you know at all times that they're they kind of people who punctilliously follow Emily Post, and when I run into this sort of folks, I have to fight the impulse to burp as loudly as I possibly can in greeting and wipe my mouth with my sleeve. "Manners" in that sense mean absolutely nothing more than someone saying "I am more socially correct and better bred than thou."

Real manners are more simple. They have nothing to do with knowing which fork to use or taking your hat off in the elevator, and everything to do with letting the other guy out ahead of you in the parking lot, or not running to beat the old lady with the carriage full of watermelons to the shorter grocery line, or keeping your mouth shut and your feet off the back of the seat in front of you during the movie and just generally treating other people as you'd like to be treated. Nobody's perfect in that respect, but real manners means at least you're trying. Even if you couldn't care less what fork to use.

In my opinion you've made a significant distinction here. There are manners that are a useful way of showing courtesy to others, and manners that are nothing more than an arbitrary set of rules that are often arcane and contrary to common sense. I think any reasonable person would agree the former set is far more important than the latter.

 

[Fading Fast]

I think "manners," so called, are overrated.

I think the kind of people who punctiliously follow everything Emily Post said to do are, generally speaking, the kind of people who want to make sure you know at all times that they're they kind of people who punctilliously follow Emily Post, and when I run into this sort of folks, I have to fight the impulse to burp as loudly as I possibly can in greeting and wipe my mouth with my sleeve. "Manners" in that sense mean absolutely nothing more than someone saying "I am more socially correct and better bred than thou."

Real manners are more simple. They have nothing to do with knowing which fork to use or taking your hat off in the elevator, and everything to do with letting the other guy out ahead of you in the parking lot, or not running to beat the old lady with the carriage full of watermelons to the shorter grocery line, or keeping your mouth shut and your feet off the back of the seat in front of you during the movie and just generally treating other people as you'd like to be treated. Nobody's perfect in that respect, but real manners means at least you're trying. Even if you couldn't care less what fork to use.

Spot on. Well said

 

[Hercule]

I think "manners," so called, are overrated.
...

Real manners are more simple.

Agreed. Perceived "classiness" on the one hand and simple civility on the other.

 

[Fiona]

I have to say that I find this classic era very inspiring not only in terms of fashion and style, but also in terms of values and the general way of life. I imagine that life wasn't as fast paced as it is today, which is something I find really sad. Well at least I got my newly found fascination for fedoras from that era, especially from classic films noires. Also I just adore Art Deco Architecture, since it's simple yet majestic, something that is very rare in modern architecture.

 

[Hercule]

... I imagine that life wasn't as fast paced as it is today, which is something I find really sad. ...

That's interesting, please elaborate?

 

[LizzieMaine]

One immense advantage of the past was that you only had your family, your friends, your workmates, and perhaps the people in your neighborhood to annoy and irritate you. Now, with the internet, every one of us has, potentially, *millions* of people to annoy and irritate us. Some progress.

 

[Stearmen]

One immense advantage of the past was that you only had your family, your friends, your workmates, and perhaps the people in your neighborhood to annoy and irritate you. Now, with the internet, every one of us has, potentially, *millions* of people to annoy and irritate us. Some progress.

I resent that comment Lizzie!

 

[Hercule]

I resent that comment Lizzie!

What are you complaining about - it followed MY post!

 

[Shangas]

I'm beginning to wonder if Lizzie is mixing manners and/or etiquette with customs and/or traditions.

While I'm well aware that people still read the Post books today, they were written over 80 years ago. While certainly a good deal of what's in those pages is relevant to modern society, there is some which isn't (as?) relevant, and I think should be discarded.

That said, I do understand what she means about "those people", who are really uptight and such about manners. I've met people like that, and it does irritate you like you can't believe. I really dislike those who shove their manners in other folks' faces. Oh look how polite and proper and gentle/wo/manly I am etc etc etc.

Bravo. Want a medal? I don't care. Don't share it with me. A person not fully up on social graces but with basic courtesy has, in my mind, the same level of social awareness as the hoity-toity super-correct ultrapolite in-your-face snooties that rub their superior breeding and social upbringing in everyone else's faces. And probably much more so.

 

[Hercule]

Frankly I think the argument is over stated. Now really, how many of "those people" does the normal person really encounter on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? Ever? Are they really genuine about it or simply affected? I would dare say 99.99999...% are simply putting on airs as it were. Being in academia, I quite often see something similar to that in certain a pretense of erudition with, of course, all the social snootiness that goes with it - seems to be a particular affliction Ivy Leagers. It's usually easy to see through and I take it for the eccentricity that it is, and am humored by it, if not occasionally enjoy it for what it is. As for Emily Post, my impression is that the majority of people who consult her are simply trying to find out how long they have to send a thank you for a wedding gift. Certainly not something people tend to consult to as a lifestyle guide.

Anecdote - A while after I asked my friend George to be best man at my wedding, he told me that he had mentioned it to his mom and she had consulted an etiquette book (as I'm certain he had as well), probably Post, as to what it involved. Her response was that she didn't think George was up to what the task "required", and that I should ask someone else. But that's George, a sweet and generous person, he simply wanted to get it "right". Needless to say he did just fine.

 

[HudsonHawk]

One immense advantage of the past was that you only had your family, your friends, your workmates, and perhaps the people in your neighborhood to annoy and irritate you. Now, with the internet, every one of us has, potentially, *millions* of people to annoy and irritate us. Some progress.

Before the internet, at least the village idiot stayed in his own village.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In all seriousness, though, it certainly took a lot longer for stupid fads and idiotic phenomena to penetrate to those of us who don't live in those twin nexi of stupid fads, the Eastern and Western Metroplexes. Now, it's instantaneous. I liked it better before the internet.

In the mid-forties, many of the leading intellectuals of the day predicted that television would revolutionize education, that it would guide humanity into a new world of ideas, international understanding, and cultural elevation. But just twenty years later, it was giving us "Gilligan's Island." I remember the same predictions for the internet in 1993, but now, twenty years later, what's dominating that bold new world of education, understanding, and cultural elevation? Cat videos, crackpot bloggers, and pornography.

 

[Otis]

Once again, we see things very differently. In my view the internet is the best invention since the Gutenberg printing press.
How else could small, disorganized groups and individuals communicate so cheaply & easily while doing an end-run around the gatekeepers of "approved" opinion? It lets those who have something to say, say it, without having to foot the bill for expensive physical media and finding an audience. Instead, the audience finds them.

As someone with 'something to say' yourself, I'd think you'd appreciate that!

 

[Edward]

Mn. Wouldn't be without the web myself. Damnit, I had a much-hated landlinre telephone connection installed in my flat purely so that I could get wifi in there. I firmly believe it's a case of shooting the messenger if we dismiss the web because of how some choose to use it. 99% of all media has always been ephemeral nonsense, IMO. Jinkies, it'd be like getting rid of books because of Twilight or Fifty Shades.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The internet has its uses -- but I still liked the world better before it existed. For one thing it's given us a generation that's been raised from the cradle to be *consumers of media,* eyes fixed to screens and ears plugged into cables before they're old enough to walk. When's the last time you saw a kid sitting in the gutter for hours, transfixed by the ants crawling thru the cracks in the pavement, or pawing thru piles of junk in an abandoned building just to come up with something interesting to do. I used to pass entire afternoons doing that kind of stuff as a little kid, before the media started insinuating itself into every aspect of our waking lives.

There was something really gratifying about finding a book in the back of the library stacks you always wanted to read. There was something really gratifying about figuring out the solution to a problem all by yourself without having the answer fed to you instantly by "crowdsourcing." There was something really gratifying about just taking the phone off the hook and ignoring the world if you felt like it, knowing whatever anybody wanted from you could wait.

People who never lived in a world like that can never understand what it was that we who miss that world are talking about. I feel sorry for them.

 

[Stearmen]

Cat videos.

Come on Lizzie, who could ever get tired of watching cats playing the piano!

 

[Hercule]

Come on Lizzie, who could ever get tired of watching cats playing the piano!

Myself, I'm a fan of Henri, Le Chat Noir

 

[Fiona]

That's interesting, please elaborate?

well I'd say that modern technology has a huge impact on our fast and stressful modern lifestyle, something which didn't exist to the same degree back in the 30s or so. Cars weren't as fast, news and information couldn't be gathered as fast as today all of that contributing to a completely different understanding of pace, at least compared to our definition.

 

[Hercule]

well I'd say that modern technology has a huge impact on our fast and stressful modern lifestyle, something which didn't exist to the same degree back in the 30s or so. Cars weren't as fast, news and information couldn't be gathered as fast as today all of that contributing to a completely different understanding of pace, at least compared to our definition.

I believe I must have misread your statement - "I imagine that life wasn't as fast paced as it is today, which is something I find really sad." It seemed to me that you were lamenting that life back then wasn't fast paced as today, hence my question.