Harking for a simpler time.....

[LizzieMaine]

Well, there was a recent generation that went to great lengths to denigrate the accomplishments of the generation that came before it, and that belief has become the one true gospel for a significant part of modern society: the world before 1960 was entirely populated by uneducated sexist, racist, ultraconformist, xenophobic, chain-smoking, alcoholic, repressed barbarians who would have destroyed the planet without the glorious intercession of the enlightened generation that followed. It must be true because they show it on "Mad Men."

That's the extent of "history" as too many people today understand it, and any of us who actually do understand the nuances of pre-boomer society and culture are obviously deluded because we don't parrot the received wisdom. And everyone who shows up around here to tell us so seems to think he's the first one ever to raise the point. Maybe we ought to just add a link to previous "You Deluded People Are Just Playing Dressup" threads in the FAQ, save everybody some effort.

My own theory is that this view of the Era is absolutely necessary for some people to cover up the lack of true and substantive progress in the modern age in overcoming real injustice. As long as they can point to the past and say "well, at least we don't make people sit in the back of the bus," they're justified in ignoring the fact that too many people today don't get to ride on the bus at all.

 

[Hercule]

...And everyone who shows up around here to tell us so seems to think he's the first one ever to raise the point. Maybe we ought to just add a link to previous "You Deluded People Are Just Playing Dressup" threads in the FAQ, save everybody some effort.
...

Please do. It would be interesting to read what has been previously discussed on this subject. As for saving everybody some effort, it is unfortunate to think that discouraging an ongoing dialogue and the exchange of ideas on this topic would even be suggested.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Goebbels tried to ban it, as I recall..... but had to relent due to its popularity. It is a German song in origin, written, if memory serves, around the time of the Great War. My favourite recording is by Dietrich, sung in the original German. There is something beautifully melancholic about German language music from that period.

Goebbels tried to ban Lili Marlene supposedly because it wasn't deemed sufficiently martial enough which is ironic because the song's composer Norbert Schultze also penned such tunes as Bomben Auf England and Panzer Rollen In Afrika Vor.

 

[nihil]

Those weirdos also censored the Wagner opera Parzifal, as it was seen as too pacifistic..

 

[LizzieMaine]

Please do. It would be interesting to read what has been previously discussed on this subject. As for saving everybody some effort, it is unfortunate to think that discouraging an ongoing dialogue and the exchange of ideas on this topic would even be suggested.

Our experience over the years has been that people who tend to raise the topic are less interested in listening to our views than in self-righteously wagging their fingers and telling us how "wrong" we are. We Bartenders are getting pretty sick of that here, and continuing to harp on the point is the surest ticket there is to the sidewalk. Word to the wise.

 

[Stearmen]

Actually, the song was written by Hans Leip in 1915 as a pome while he was standing guard duty, when he saw a young lady under a lamp post. Supposedly he combined the names of two girl friends, even back then soldiers were soldiers! It was originally titled, Das Lied eines jungen Soldaten auf der Wacht, or The Song of a Young Soldier on Watch. in 1938 Norbert Schultze set it to music, and well done to. Marlene Dietrich is my favorite version also.

"Th' krauts ain't followin' ya so good on 'Lili Marlene' tonight, Joe. Ya think maybe somethin' happened to their tenor?"

 

[Indyoriginal]

I'm surprised that someone would actively seek out a community such as this (you know, one dedicated to celebrating the glories of the past) just to play the 'my values are so superior' game.

Oh, wait...that sounds intellectually shallow, crass, and highly egotistical. Yep, sounds about right for the majority in our society today. Especially when you factor in the great distances seperating the participating parties (highly unlikely to receive that deserved punch in the face).

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Actually, the song was written by Hans Leip in 1915 as a pome while he was standing guard duty, when he saw a young lady under a lamp post. Supposedly he combined the names of two girl friends, even back then soldiers were soldiers! It was originally titled, Das Lied eines jungen Soldaten auf der Wacht, or The Song of a Young Soldier on Watch. in 1938 Norbert Schultze set it to music, and well done to. Marlene Dietrich is my favorite version also.

The first recording of Lili Marleen in English was by Anne Shelton.

[video=youtube;VV2kVzIwtes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV2kVzIwtes[/video]

I'm surprised that someone would actively seek out a community such as this (you know, one dedicated to celebrating the glories of the past) just to play the 'my values are so superior' game..

I believe such a practice is known as "being a troll" -- Trolls are unfortunately a plentiful species in the Webisphere.

 

[Gingerella72]

Everything is direct deposit. I asked for a paper check when I started at the plant and I can't get one if I wanted one, yet they give me a voided paper check to show proof of payment. Makes no sense, why can't I just get a normal check? They did that at my old job, too after some time. I used to always just got my check and paid cash for everything. Now, you gotta have that darn debit card all the time.

Where I work we have no option of a paper check either. It's all direct deposit. It's done for efficiency, and to save paper costs. We used to get a paper pay stub, but last year they made that all electronic too, to save on paper costs (I work at a university and our budgets have been slashed). We can log into our account and print out a copy of it if we need to.

In some ways I prefer it, I don't have to make sure I get the check deposited by a certain time so that it posts, for example. But in some ways it makes me less aware of my finances.

 

[Gingerella72]

Some days I miss the human contact..... other days I am very, very grateful that I can deal with a machine and go two or three days without being obliged to have any meaningful contact with a human. [huh] I'm still looking for the happy medium....

I found this interesting because I feel the same way....I have social anxiety issues and sometimes just the thought of having to make chit chat with someone, even if it's just a shop clerk, makes me die a little inside. But at the same time I know that if I isolate too much, that's equally bad for me. I'm so thankful for the internet where I can communicate (like now!) and express my thoughts without having to make eye contact and stammer and stutter, lol.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Well, there was a recent generation that went to great lengths to denigrate the accomplishments of the generation that came before it, and that belief has become the one true gospel for a significant part of modern society: the world before 1960 was entirely populated by uneducated sexist, racist, ultraconformist, xenophobic, chain-smoking, alcoholic, repressed barbarians who would have destroyed the planet without the glorious intercession of the enlightened generation that followed. It must be true because they show it on "Mad Men."

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my cousin, a quintessential West Side soccer mom of the politically-active variety. She considers the '60s generation to have been "the smartest, most talented and most creative" generation in our entire history and that no others, past, present or future, will ever match them. She is my cousin after all, so here I was just sitting there thinking "no comment" and trying very hard not to laugh when I heard that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As far as intelligence, talent, and creativity go I think a very strong case can be made that the generation born between 1880 and 1915 trumps the boomers. That generation essentially laid the groundwork for the entire 20th Century, made towering accomplishments in art, literature, science, technology, and social progress -- and remained a significant influence almost to the century's end. And they weren't so full of hubris that they felt they had to keep reminding everyone of it.

 

[Gingerella72]

We may not be able to go back in time and live in an era we think is superior, but there is nothing stopping us from embracing those aspects and virtues from 'then' and apply them to our lives now. Sure, there are some things we have no control over (such as forced direct deposit, for example), but we can just make the best of what we can.

There is nothing stopping us from having good manners, and treating others accordingly.

Nothing stopping us from picking and choosing what technology we use. If you hate cell phones, don't use one. Hate TV and its insidious advertising? Don't watch it.

Want to plant a Victory garden and go to church on Sunday? Then do so!

Want to see a return of Mom and Pop stores and small business? Then support the ones in your area with your dollars.

Teaching manners, morals, and compassion to others must begin in your own home. Don't have kids? Reach out to younger nieces/nephews or volunteer at a local school.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Just sayin', if you want certain aspects of the past to survive, then make sure they've good and alive in your own life.

 

[Feraud]

I'm surprised that someone would actively seek out a community such as this (you know, one dedicated to celebrating the glories of the past) just to play the 'my values are so superior' game.

We also discuss the darker times of the era too. War, Depression, Labor Movement, etc.
You are likely to get a better informed discussion of the era here than anywhere else.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Just sayin', if you want certain aspects of the past to survive, then make sure they've good and alive in your own life.

Good point. The past truly is dead if people think they are superior to it..

 

[KayEn78]

I'd have to bite my tongue if I heard your cousin praise the '60s like that, V.C. Brunswick! I still think those born in the 19-teens and 1920s, who came of age during The Great Depression and World War II are still the "Greatest Generation. But I also agree with the comment above about how those born between 1880-1915 trump the '60s baby boom generation.

-Kristi

 

[KayEn78]

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Join Date: Jul 2011Location: San Jose Ca.Posts: 64




I agree with those that believe that at one time people shared a much better set of values. There's a lot to be said for a little Golden Age courtesy and self restraint. All we can do is try to live the best and set an example. Not that anyone else is likely to notice or care.

I'm not sure how to officially "copy" a previous post, so I just put it in italics. Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

-Kristi

 

[sheeplady]

In some ways I prefer it, I don't have to make sure I get the check deposited by a certain time so that it posts, for example. But in some ways it makes me less aware of my finances.

Both my husband and I remain holdouts to direct deposit. I told the HR person last time I went in to get my check that I was afraid that my bank would fold and I would be left without checks while my employer slowly filed the paperwork (minimum 1 month as I was told) to change banks.

What really bothers me about direct deposit is that it unfairly put people who for whatever reason don't have a bank account at a significant disadvantage- they might not even be able to hold that job. After all, you need an address (or a PO box) for a bank account and most likely a minimum deposit kept in the account.

The past truly is dead if people think they are superior to it..

While I know this isn't what anyone is saying, I see nothing wrong with someone saying: "I think X was better back then, but Y is better now." It certainly does require more critical thinking than most people who outright state that there is nothing to learn from the past can probably muster though.

 

[scottyrocks]

Every era has its positives and negatives. The trick is to look at all of it with an open mind and recognize it for what it is, and not what you think it is. If you're going to have an opinion, at least base it on fact. That's how I try to do it.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Very well said. I agree with you completely. That's the great thing about today's society. Do what makes you happy, most people aren't going to pay you much mind past thinking you're crazy.

We may not be able to go back in time and live in an era we think is superior, but there is nothing stopping us from embracing those aspects and virtues from 'then' and apply them to our lives now. Sure, there are some things we have no control over (such as forced direct deposit, for example), but we can just make the best of what we can.

There is nothing stopping us from having good manners, and treating others accordingly.

Nothing stopping us from picking and choosing what technology we use. If you hate cell phones, don't use one. Hate TV and its insidious advertising? Don't watch it.

Want to plant a Victory garden and go to church on Sunday? Then do so!

Want to see a return of Mom and Pop stores and small business? Then support the ones in your area with your dollars.

Teaching manners, morals, and compassion to others must begin in your own home. Don't have kids? Reach out to younger nieces/nephews or volunteer at a local school.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Just sayin', if you want certain aspects of the past to survive, then make sure they've good and alive in your own life.

I couldn't agree more. That's why history's so important. There's a lot to learn and a lot to be gained from it and you can put it to use with all the advantages of today's world and really have so many positive attributes when all's said and done.

Every era has its positives and negatives. The trick is to look at all of it with an open mind and recognize it for what it is, and not what you think it is. If you're going to have an opinion, at least base it on fact. That's how I try to do it.

The bartenders aren't the only ones who think that song and dance gets old.

Our experience over the years has been that people who tend to raise the topic are less interested in listening to our views than in self-righteously wagging their fingers and telling us how "wrong" we are. We Bartenders are getting pretty sick of that here, and continuing to harp on the point is the surest ticket there is to the sidewalk. Word to the wise.

 

[Stearmen]

Lost Voice

I found this interesting because I feel the same way....I have social anxiety issues and sometimes just the thought of having to make chit chat with someone, even if it's just a shop clerk, makes me die a little inside. But at the same time I know that if I isolate too much, that's equally bad for me. I'm so thankful for the internet where I can communicate (like now!) and express my thoughts without having to make eye contact and stammer and stutter, lol.

I can empathise with you a little better after my experience of a couple of weeks ago. I had the worst cold of my life, over 20 days, right in the middle of it, my voice went. I was out of cold medication, so I thought, where can I go where I don't have to talk, Walgreens. So I went, every one wanted to talk to me, the women at the entrance, two different Pharmacists, another floor person, and the women at the check out. There I am, barley able to talk in a whisper, and not wanting to spread my germs, but trying to be polite! So, yes I understand your condition now, not easy! Luckily, you sound like a very nice person, so hopefully others will be understanding!