Harking for a simpler time.....

[LizzieMaine]

We can't change the world. But we sure as hell can throw a monkey wrench into it.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

At only 24 years old, I see a shocking difference even just between members of my generation, and the kids I’ve been exposed to through family and friends. I know relatively young children who are literally sucked into the machine from age 3 on – constantly attached to a gaming system, computer, or smartphone for hours and hours each day.

I was online at the library yesterday and at the computer next to me was a kid who was seven- or eight-years-old totally engrossed in this video game. It was something of a shock as I am used to the fact that older kids (12 and up) are big into video games but this kid????

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It's bad enough when something that I've never seen as such is called an "art." But what's really frightening is when that "art" becomes a "science."

Funny to think that, over two thousand years ago, Aristotle spoke at length about "habits" in Book II, Chapter 1 of his Nichomachean Ethics. His interest in habituation was less, um, lucrative than Target's:


"[According to Aristotle,] virtues seem to be developed by means of habit (ethos in Greek). That is, virtues are not inborn, though the capacity to develop virtues is inborn in all of us. And of course, not all habits impart virtues; there are also habits that work against virtues. For example, if we develop the habit of paying no attention to other people's needs, we are unlikely to become generous (or consistently generous, at least). Furthermore, if we develop the habit of never trying anything new or unknown, we will not learn certain kinds of courage."

 

[LizzieMaine]

In the Mad Men fifties, they called it "motivational research," and it really was the start of this pernicious invasive marketing that we're surrounded by at all times in modern culture. Read the works of Vance Packard to see how even then there were people who saw thru it and found it appalling -- I read "The Hidden Persuaders" in high school, and never looked at the world around me in the same way again.

 

[fortworthgal]

I try not to romanticize the past. I know that things were not perfect. There were wars, racism, sexism, much less advanced medical care - many things that we take for granted as a modern society. Do I still believe I would have "fit" better in the golden era? Yes, I wholeheartedly do.

I grew up in a very rural area, very poor. I did live the "vintage simple country life" - gardening & canning for necessary food, water from a well, wearing hand-me-downs, using the party line rotary telephone, coyotes across the road & armadillos in the yard. There were also food stamps, free school lunches that I desperately tried to hide from my friends, worrying if we had enough butane to last the winter, and waiting in line for government-distributed free food. We worked hard and it wasn't easy, so I have no illusions about that lifestyle. I lived it!

I can be fairly certain that I would, in fact, be happier then, than now. I know what I am, I know what I like, and a society years back would be more tailored to a fella like myself.

Well said, and I feel exactly the same way as you and Rue.

I do not necessarily think the past was a simpler or "better" time. But I do feel as though I "belong" there, that I would fit better.

 

[HOP UP]

In the Mad Men fifties, they called it "motivational research," and it really was the start of this pernicious invasive marketing that we're surrounded by at all times in modern culture. Read the works of Vance Packard to see how even then there were people who saw thru it and found it appalling -- I read "The Hidden Persuaders" in high school, and never looked at the world around me in the same way again.

Lizzie,

The onset of Televison, how it affects the brainwaves and puts people into a semi trance leaving them state open to suggestion was not lost to savvy marketers of the time. As you've indicated, some saw through it, however clearly, most did not.

If you don't believe me, take a look at the ads that permeate the market place even today.

Savvy marketers know that people buy on emotion, and justify with logic.

But I digress; too many people are running arond shopping malls buying stuff they don't need with money they don't have.

HOP UP

 

[bunnyb.gal]

I've been lurking around for some time here, but the subject and responses to this post really speak to me. In regards to all of 'us' longing for a self-projected illusion of the past that never existed - I strongly disagree. I am relatively young (24) and thankfully thus far have been relatively successful (for a member of my generation that is, who has woken up with a multitude of hangovers passed down from previous generations’ partying). I say this simply to point out that I do not feel ostracized by society for lack of socio-economic means, popularity with my peers, etc., etc. However, to get back to the point I’d like to argue – the past, particularly ‘The Golden Era,’ really was better in many (most?) ways. The reason I feel so strongly that this is true is because I’ve been fortunate enough to be around all of my grandparents for extensive periods of time. Not to get into any political debates, but one set of them are Roosevelt-loving, big government liberals, and the other set Ron Paul supporting, tear down the government conservatives. They grew up in the 20s and 30s in vastly different circumstances (Midwestern plains vs. Brooklyn), and went on to very different careers, and yet, they all tell me of the years when this country, and this society was vastly superior. Not only do they tell me how superior things were back then, I can see it in the way they live and have lived their lives. At only 24 years old, I see a shocking difference even just between members of my generation, and the kids I’ve been exposed to through family and friends. I know relatively young children who are literally sucked into the machine from age 3 on – constantly attached to a gaming system, computer, or smartphone for hours and hours each day. There is no such thing as playing outside anymore, just as there is no such thing as allowing your children to play outside. Who knows what could happen to them if you’re foolish enough to let your brood explore the world around them. From my personal experience, they will probably end up drunk, high, pregnant…or perhaps all three simultaneously. Without turning this into an all-out rant, I’d like to conclude my remarks with a more analytical statement. The only constant in life and in this world that we live in is change. And as someone who is paid to analyze these changes that occur around us, I firmly believe that that is one of the only constants you can rely on – change in the form of technology and in the nature of human interaction. Basically, all that this means to me is that society is never going to get back to the way it was…things will always keep changing, for better or (mostly) for worse. I know and accept this. That said, I still find it exceedingly difficult to look at the world around me, with the values imbued in me from my childhood, without thinking that the world has lost its mind in a thread of code buried deep in some hollowed-out building packed full of servers running algorithms designed to rip me off a cent at a time. Wish we could go back, or at least import some of that bygone era’s simplicity and decency.

*As well, fedoras and clipper planes rule.

A hearty welcome to the Lounge, Indyoriginal. Would that there were more "young'uns" like yourself!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Would that there were more "young'uns" like yourself!

But what the Fedora Lounge really needs is some 90-year-olds with very sharp memories.

 

[Edward]

Some days I miss the human contact..... other days I am very, very grateful that I can deal with a machine and go two or three days without being obliged to have any meaningful contact with a human. [huh] I'm still looking for the happy medium....

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Though when you think about it, if you were to go back to any time period whether it be a few years ago or 100 years ago, I think you'll find that people back then were thoroughly convinced that they were living in the worst of times -- although in some cases they were right!

Gotta love human nature -- it's so uplifting.

 

[LizzieMaine]

On the other hand, "no matter how bad things are now, they can always get worse" is hardly a truth likely to fill one with enthusiasm for the future. As I've often said, my one real consolation is knowing I won't live to see the 22nd Century.

 

[KayEn78]

Like in another post a couple of pages back, I too believe that I'd "fit in" better back then. It wouldn't be easy, of course, but I realize that I would fit in more with society in general.

-Kristi

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... I too believe that I'd "fit in" better back then. ...I would fit in more with society in general.

There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.


-- Robert William Service

 

[scottyrocks]

The problem here is the layman's general lack of historical empathy. We, in the here-and-now, cannot truly know what life was like in any given situation before we were born. We only truly know what we have experienced. It takes historians, and other students of history, time to develop any sort of historical empathy. V.C. just touched on it above when he said that people in their own times feel that they were living in the worst of times, implying that their past, or the past before they existed, were the good old days. So, two things: everything is relative, and the further back you go, the better it gets (?) The first point may be true, but the second is dubious, at best.

 

[O2BSwank]

I agree with those that believe that at one time people shared a much better set of values. There's a lot to be said for a little Golden Age courtesy and self restraint. All we can do is try to live the best and set an example. Not that anyone else is likely to notice or care.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I discussed this thread with my folks.

My mother's sentiments I agreed with very much. She said that she'd be plenty happy living in the fifties. The society was more our speed and medical technology was fairly good. And that it would be fun to visit the Victorian Era, but that living there would be a very hard life and chances of dying much higher. I'd have to agree and say my train of thought is identical.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Arthur Fields -- Bring Back Those Wonderful Days
One of the popular songs of 1919.

[video=youtube;t6oK5U0xSUI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6oK5U0xSUI[/video]

 

[Stearmen]

I was just thinking, during WWII the most bloody war in history, with unimaginable atrocities, there was one song that all sides listened too, Lili Marleen. Even the Russians sang it, even though they were threatened with execution for singing it, so they changed the lyrics to X ratted version. It wouldn't surprise me if the Japanese new the words. Has there ever been a song like that before or since?[video=youtube;vL0KniirXHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL0KniirXHM[/video]

 

[Edward]

Like in another post a couple of pages back, I too believe that I'd "fit in" better back then. It wouldn't be easy, of course, but I realize that I would fit in more with society in general.

-Kristi

I'd fit in better in some ways.... and much, much less in others. On balance, I've come to the conclusion it's easier to not fit in today than it would have been for me to not fit in back then.

I was just thinking, during WWII the most bloody war in history, with unimaginable atrocities, there was one song that all sides listened too, Lili Marleen. Even the Russians sang it, even though they were threatened with execution for singing it, so they changed the lyrics to X ratted version. It wouldn't surprise me if the Japanese new the words. Has there ever been a song like that before or since?[video=youtube;vL0KniirXHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL0KniirXHM[/video]

Goebbels tried to ban it, as I recall..... but had to relent due to its popularity. It is a German song in origin, written, if memory serves, around the time of the Great War. My favourite recording is by Dietrich, sung in the original German. There is something beautifully melancholic about German language music from that period.

 

[Feraud]

The problem here is the layman's general lack of historical empathy.

Forget empathy, how about basic historical knowledge. My problem with the layman and his God given right to express opinions is if you talk to people they will gladly tell you they dislike history. Most will tell you they hated history class in school and have done nothing afterwards to broaden their horizons on the matter.
Why is it when it comes to judging the past and particularly those who have an appreciation for the era the layman suddenly has strong opinions?