Bill Kelso's New Californian half belt, a new release I think.

[Edward]

They were just trying to point out that it's NOT an Aero :lol:

:lol:

Perhaps, given some of the interweb criticism i have seen elsewhere (from the guy himself- "Yes, Virginia, there is a double standard"), they should have named it "Himelnaut" [huh]

You could argue that! Himel were, to my knowledge, the first to revive this particular style (at least in recent years, and outside Japan), though given the age of the design anyone can make a matching jacket - they just can't apply a pre-existing trademark to it. Like anyone can make a Perfecto-type jacket, but they can't call it a Perfecto or even a Schottnaut...

The "Sears" TM is still in use, but the "Hercules" TM obtained by Sears was abandoned many years ago.

A mark being abandoned would be another thing, yes... I'm not aware of any TM regimed which doesn't require a mark to be in good-faith usage as a condition of validity. In that case, they could use "Hercules", but they can't legally use "Sears" in any way, even for the sake of historical accuracy (c/f repros of the original Aero company's A2s, which can't be labelled as Aeros unless by contractual arrangement with Aero in Scotland, or the "Irvin" brand, which can only be used by Aviation Leathercraft, under licence, despite the fact that they make arguably the least accurate Irvins.... several other examples too).

ETA: the picture can be complicated if a TM is not registered in the territory in which another party appropriates and uses it, but there might still be protection for it as an unregistered mark, local laws allowing.

 

[zhz]

For sake of accuracy, the use of sears is a great thing, I am not sure about the TM thing, but they do use ARC in their Aero A2 repro so my guess is they do know these things? But, Can we concentrate on the jacket itself (leather, accuracy, workmanship etc)? I would leave these TM things to lawyer.

 

[pawineguy]

:lol:



You could argue that! Himel were, to my knowledge, the first to revive this particular style (at least in recent years, and outside Japan), though given the age of the design anyone can make a matching jacket - they just can't apply a pre-existing trademark to it. Like anyone can make a Perfecto-type jacket, but they can't call it a Perfecto or even a Schottnaut...



A mark being abandoned would be another thing, yes... I'm not aware of any TM regimed which doesn't require a mark to be in good-faith usage as a condition of validity. In that case, they could use "Hercules", but they can't legally use "Sears" in any way, even for the sake of historical accuracy (c/f repros of the original Aero company's A2s, which can't be labelled as Aeros unless by contractual arrangement with Aero in Scotland, or the "Irvin" brand, which can only be used by Aviation Leathercraft, under licence, despite the fact that they make arguably the least accurate Irvins.... several other examples too).

ETA: the picture can be complicated if a TM is not registered in the territory in which another party appropriates and uses it, but there might still be protection for it as an unregistered mark, local laws allowing.

Most likely Sears would do nothing, but what many small companies in the U.S. don't understand is that in order to maintain the validity of their trademark, they do have to defend against its unauthorized use. Ignoring it for years and then attempting to defend later is problematic. The fact that they are based in Greece and would only produce a few jackets of this type per year most likely means that they won't hear from the big boys any time soon.

 

[handymike]

ZHZ, Edward IS a TM lawyer....

 

[zhz]

ZHZ, Edward IS a TM lawyer....

........................................................
Ok, as I said...leave it to TM lawyer... how correct I am...

 

[handymike]

Let's move the Hercules discussion to a new thread!
I think the work deserves to stand on its own.

 

[Otter]

Let's move the Hercules discussion to a new thread!
I think the work deserves to stand on its own.

I think I preferred the Heracles

 

[bretron]

I think I preferred the Heracles

Lol saw that too! "Hercalese, Hercalese"

 

[SLAB]

thanks guys

always wanted a Himel but when I found out about BK, I decided to give them a try. Sure helped they are located on this side of the pond (avoids those extra unwanted taxes). As mentioned before, it's basically a standard Aeronaut but with an adjusted collar; slightly trimmer and actually the original collar shape of the H&L Block original they used for recreating this model.

I had to wait a bit until arrival of their 'dark' seal Victory HH but it looks, feels and smells great. The hide is however, in contrast to what mentioned before, exceptionally smooth so no worn look on this one.

Andy was great to work with; he was very helpful and patient with all my questions and concerns. I'd like to go for a Heracles now but I am somewhat disappointed they raised the price quite some for this particular model. All in all I'm a happy customer

 

[tmitchell59]

they raised the price quite some for this particular model. All in all I'm a happy customer

What is the price on the Herc?

 

[zhz]

thanks guys

always wanted a Himel but when I found out about BK, I decided to give them a try. Sure helped they are located on this side of the pond (avoids those extra unwanted taxes). As mentioned before, it's basically a standard Aeronaut but with an adjusted collar; slightly trimmer and actually the original collar shape of the H&L Block original they used for recreating this model.

I had to wait a bit until arrival of their 'dark' seal Victory HH but it looks, feels and smells great. The hide is however, in contrast to what mentioned before, exceptionally smooth so no worn look on this one.

Andy was great to work with; he was very helpful and patient with all my questions and concerns. I'd like to go for a Heracles now but I am somewhat disappointed they raised the price quite some for this particular model. All in all I'm a happy customer

How much is the Heracles? Isn't it 700 GBP?

 

[SLAB]

I was told by Andy it will cost around 900£

 

[Sloan1874]

Ouch! We're into Good Wear price territory...

 

[zhz]

I was told by Andy it will cost around 900£

£900? didnt expect this coming...they raise the price really fast...

 

[Edward]

That is a very significant jump. I'd expected them to equal out their prices to Aero's over time (the "We're just as good as Aero but much cheaper" marketing of late could bite them in that respect), given that that's the market they seem to be shooting for; "perceived market value", and all that. It seems they're instead trying to position themselves more in the Goodwear market by jumping to that sort of price level. Much riskier, I'd have thought. Maybe they feel they can compete on quality with Goodwear and so are aiming to mop up potential Goodwear custom that doesn't want to wait out the twelve months for one of John's jackets? [huh]

 

[schitzo]

I've spoken to BK recently, about this jacket among other things, and the impression I have is that 900 may not even be the finalised price but that whatever it is will be high because this jacket is being made for a shop with part of the agreement being that BK aren't allowed to sell it for any less.

 

[zhz]

I've spoken to BK recently, about this jacket among things, and the impression I have is that 900 may not even be the finalised price but that whatever it is will be high because this jacket is being made for a shop with part of the agreement being that BK aren't allowed to sell it for any less.

Is this the jacket BK made for American classic London?

 

[bretron]

I believe so

 

[A-1]

Bretron, have you received the jacket yet?
I am in the midst of the ordering process with Andy and so far it was quite nice. To me he said it would be 4 weeks till the jacket will be shipped. I hope everything’s gonna be fine.

Either way, I am really eager to see some fit pics of other loungers who were waiting on a jacket.

Or was there a delay, again?!

 

[Seb Lucas]

And what is the price?