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"Unhappy Hipsters" Blog

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,103
Location
San Francisco, CA
You may agree with it now, but a few pages ago you were questioning if there was inherent bias against the working class:

It has to be one or the other. Do you think that othering leads to bias or not?

Othering can lead to bias, but it does not inherently do so. We can only understand ourselves in relation to others. That is the nature of being social animals. However, even though we may understand ourselves as being different, that does not mean that we now have biases against those others. You understand that you are different from someone living in Manhattan. Do you have a bias against people living in Manhattan? You understand that your living situation is better off than someone living in the slums of Mumbai. Do you have a bias against those who do live there? You understand that you're not a (insert ethnicity here), do you have a bias against people of that ethnicity?

If othering inherently (and they key word really is "inherently" led to bias, than everyone would be biased against everyone else. We do form cognitive biases, we may prejudice based on our experience, but the act of defining oneself in relation to another does not, in and of itself, ascribe a value judgment which would indicate bias. Again, this is not to say that it doesn't happen, surely it does. It is also not to say that it doesn't happen frequently, nor that it isn't common. But it is not inherent.

Edit: I should clarify further that my earlier comment about "inherent bias" was really in response to the claims of "historical oppression" of the working class by the middle class and was intended as a comment on societal norms, not individual behavior. I don't think history bears out the subjugation of the working class by the middle class, certainly not to the extent that the upper class has exploited both. The landowning colonialists were not middle class; the robber barons were not middle class; Wall St. bankers are not middle class. One might well make the case that there have been instances of "oppression" from the middle to the lower class (though that case certainly wasn't made here with anything other than rhetoric), however, I disagree with the assertion made that there is an institutionalized bias against the working class.

The comparison was made to a caste system. As I said earlier, I don't think someone who grew up in the Indian caste system would agree with that analogy. Young women are raped in India because of their caste; people are murdered because of their caste; in 2005, over 110,000 cases of violence against the Dalit ("untouchable") caste were recorded. That's an institutionalized bias. There is a legal regime in place which, on paper, prohibits discrimination. Obviously this is not true in practice.

We don't have that here. Whatever antipathy may or may not exist between class, it doesn't reach the level of a system where the bias against class is inherent in the societal framework.

That's the long version of "that doesn't mean there's an inherent bias against the working class." ;)
 
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Messages
10,883
Location
Portage, Wis.
I wouldn't say that I dislike the middle or upper class, at all. In fact, I aspire to move my way up from my current lot in life. I admire people in higher classes, especially those that worked hard to be there.

I had no idea that upper and middle class people were social pariahs. I always suspected but this thread confirms it. Thanks
 
Messages
13,460
Location
Orange County, CA
Like I always say: More Horatio Alger less Karl Marx. :p

I've got my dancing shoes on tonight. I believe someone once said that socialism is nothing more than envy elevated to an institution. ;):p

:D
minefield.jpg
 

Flicka

One Too Many
Messages
1,165
Location
Sweden
Since politics are banned my lips are sealed.

And right now I'm playing John Lennon's Working Class Hero.
 
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Amy Jeanne

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,858
Location
Colorado
When your mom and dad start dressing like a any popular trend then its time to move on.

lol
When my mom bought Smashing Pumpkins and Nine Inch Nails CDs in 1995 I knew it was time to stop listening to them and get into something harder and more underground lol Today, I could care less!!
 

alsendk

A-List Customer
Messages
427
Location
Zealand Denmark
I have been reading the posts here with interest.
Very insightful and instructive.

In Denmark - the workingclass, AND the middleclass have melted together to a very homogeneous class, called the middleclass, - containing: teachers doctors electricians carpenters dentists busdrivers nurses architects engineers and blue collars of any kind

we only have a very narrow upperclas, who always gets divorced, or go bankruptcy, or move to Switzerland, and generally fills up the culumns of the tabloid news papers, for the enjoyment of the middleclass to comment about.

We do have poor people here, but fortunally we also have free access to hospitals medicare, and a well funktioning social wellfare to take care of the poor.

Will it be too bold to ask why the resistance against Obamas medicare program are being met so strongly amongst people in US and the congress?
wouldn`t it be more challenging to help these people instead of discussing this middleclass/working class issue over and over again?

this is just a thought from a citizen from the upper cold part of Europe, I do not claim to have any insight in american politics or culture, I am just asking a question here[huh]
 
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Amy Jeanne

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,858
Location
Colorado
Actually, you know that you've reached that point when you start hearing those songs as elevator music. :p:D
lol

I'm already having a tough time dealing with the fact that our local "oldies" station plays 80s music lol lol lol In the 80s, that station played 50s music!
 
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MissMittens

One Too Many
Messages
1,628
Location
Philadelphia USA
That's one band my mom never got into so it was safe to like them lol I only like them up to Dookie, though. Everything after that kinda sucked :/

I like American Idiot, even if I don't necessarily agree with the politics, it embodies the "spirit" of true punk.....the only work of theirs that does, I think.
 

LizzieMaine

Bartender
Messages
33,732
Location
Where The Tourists Meet The Sea
When so-called "oldies radio" formats were first created, in the early '70s, the music they were playing was less than twenty years old. Nothing has a more compressed cultural memory than a radio-station music director.
 

Amy Jeanne

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,858
Location
Colorado
I don't even listen to the radio -- only if it's on in a shop or something. That's what my iPod is for. They don't even play the music I like ON the radio (this part ties in with the hipster original topic lol) The exception is local station WRDV, which plays music from the 20s to the 40s. That's the only station I can tolerate in large doses and I've never heard the same song twice on there, either :D

http://www.wrdv.org/
 
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Messages
13,460
Location
Orange County, CA
As much as I can't stand NPR, I used to listen to the two local NPR stations KPCC and KCRW back in the 1980s and early 1990s because Ian Whitcomb and Joe Monte used to have their shows on those stations playing music from the 1920s and '30s. When they went off the air I went through withdrawal for several years with only the stuff I had taped off the radio to keep me sane. That was in the pre YouTube days.
 

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