The Adventurer's Gear Thread

[Cobden]

Not neccesarily; the Long Lee was used up until the Mid 20's by some India and Colonial Units, and units based in India and other colonies. The shorter bayonet just confirms the ID - after all, you don't need a huge bayonet on a long rifle!

It could be a Lee-Metford, however I doubt it as these were phased out pretty quickly

 

[Kodiak]

Not neccesarily; the Long Lee was used up until the Mid 20's by some India and Colonial Units, and units based in India and other colonies. The shorter bayonet just confirms the ID - after all, you don't need a huge bayonet on a long rifle!

It could be a Lee-Metford, however I doubt it as these were phased out pretty quickly

Hmm... Lee-Metford. Unless I'm mistaken, those didn't go over too well.

Question though: weren't these photos supposedly of the 25th Royal Fusiliers? That would put them right around the time of WWI, or possibly before. I thought that they were pretty much wiped out at... Behobeho, perhaps?

 

[Cobden]

Indeed it does; just checked and the 25th was formed in 1915, served in Kenya and East Africa and was disbanded in 1918 after returning home.

Ijust find it more fun to date photos by looking at the uniforms

The Lee-Metford's main problem was it's use of black powder cartridges, which were out of date when introduced. The actual mechanism, however, was pretty much the same as the Lee-Enfields

 

[Rooster]

I gotta say, this is one of my all time favorite threads!:eusa_clap :cheers1:

 

[mikepara]

Indeed WW1 25th Royal Fusiliers Frontiersmen.

I included these photo's (of which I've 100's but its tedious taking a photo of a photo and the results arn't good.) because they where famous as explorers and adventurers. Many actually too old for Military service, they kitted themselves out at thier own expense, hense mix and match equipment.

 

[mikepara]

 

[Kodiak]

The Lee-Metford's main problem was it's use of black powder cartridges, which were out of date when introduced. The actual mechanism, however, was pretty much the same as the Lee-Enfields

Black powder was replaced by Cordite then wasn't it? My perstering mind is curious...

 

[Cobden]

Aye, the Lee-Metford used Black powder, despite the invention of Cordite before it was commissioned, because of the Metford Rifling pattern which wore down quickly with cordite cartridges. The Lee-Enfield replaced it in 1895, which had rifling that worked with cordite. I don't quite undertand the mechanics of why one pattern of rifling would work well with cordite, but not another, I hasten to add, but that's why the Lee-Metford had to use black powder!

 

[John in Covina]

Spin

Slower Versus Faster burning charges require different spin rates to stabilize the bullet, that might be the difference.

 

[Mojave Jack]

John, you're probably right. The difference in pressure produced by the different burning rates would have been important, too. The faster burning rate of the cordite would have produced a higher chamber pressure and would have had a huge effect on the ballistics.

 

[Feraud]

Aye, the Lee-Metford used Black powder, despite the invention of Cordite before it was commissioned, because of the Metford Rifling pattern which wore down quickly with cordite cartridges. The Lee-Enfield replaced it in 1895, which had rifling that worked with cordite. I don't quite undertand the mechanics of why one pattern of rifling would work well with cordite, but not another, I hasten to add, but that's why the Lee-Metford had to use black powder!

Is that correct regarding the Lee-Metford rifling wearing down?
My thoughts would be the pressure generated by Cordite was too much for the Lee-Metford breech. The lower pressure black powder was safer in the Lee-Met and the Enfield would handle the cordite..

 

[Cobden]

It might have been a combination of the two. All I know, is that the rifling had something to do with it!

 

[Mike K.]

Building the Four Bore Rifle

A full quarter-pound of lead per ball
Pyrodex Select
Double barrels and finely engraved wood
24 lbs total and a recoil that'll put you in traction
Not drooling yet? Check out this article:
http://www.african-hunter.com/4-bore_part_i.htm

For those not needing to stop a charging Tyrannosaur, here's another interesting article on converting a DB shotgun to a DB rifle. Given that most classic safari double rifles run about the price of a new car, the conversion of a $500 shotgun is appealing. As a wildlife warden, I'd love to have a .308 double rifle handy when face to face with a wild boar in the Florida swamps.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/936.html

 

[Mike K.]

A few more vintage safari photos...

 

[Mojave Jack]

My neighbor was telling me the other day about his gun collection that was stolen. One of them was a Holland & Holland. I wanted to cry.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

SMOKELESS SCHMOKELESS!

OK, OK...I'll admit to being a bit reactionary in my preference for black powder! Here's a guy who, as you can see, builds some really neat four and eight bore front-stuffer elephant rifles.

www.gefrohbigbores.com

Best,

John

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Kodiak,

I noticed in a previous post you expressed a desire to hunt leopard. You actually can hunt them and yes you can bring them back to the states with little difficulty (It's Jaguar that would be an impossibility). Well, there is some difficulty...figure hunting fees of about $500 per day and a $3500-$4000 trophy fee if you manage to take one. I think most places have a 14 day minimum on leopard (which is the minimum I would book). Then it's just a matter of the CITES permit to get it into the states. This is the easy part relatively speaking.

Best,

John

 

[carebear]

If the rifling is a tight twist to stabilize a slower moving bullet, it is going to increase chamber pressure by actually impeding a bullet being driven faster by a higher-pressure powder.

It'd be interesting to see what bullet weights and twists the rifles were using.

Might also had something to do with the metallurgy and its reaction to the cordite gasses. But that's a stone guess. I'd have to look it up.

 

[Kodiak]

I noticed in a previous post you expressed a desire to hunt leopard. You actually can hunt them and yes you can bring them back to the states with little difficulty (It's Jaguar that would be an impossibility). Well, there is some difficulty...figure hunting fees of about $500 per day and a $3500-$4000 trophy fee if you manage to take one. I think most places have a 14 day minimum on leopard (which is the minimum I would book). Then it's just a matter of the CITES permit to get it into the states. This is the easy part relatively speaking.

Really!? Wow... thanks for that info. The price would be restrictive of course, but worth it perhaps. Thanks John. Nice doubles by the way.

Mike K.- the guy with the elephant in those photos looks like Wally Johnson. The bottom one reminds me of Selous. Nice photos.

Now... a gun question... does anyone know of an over and under double rifle ever being used?

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Hi Kodiak....

O/U rifles are used today in various calibres but are generally viewed as practically inferior to the SXS model when it comes to ease and speed of loading (something obviously important under the circumstances of hunting elephant and such). This is reflected in the relative prices of the two. SXS rifles usually sell for a lot more than OU models on the used markets which means that people take a big hit when they sell O/U models. As for hunting in Africa, leopard is the most reasonable of the "big 5" with the exception of cow elephant believe it or not. I've seen 7 day cow ele hunts priced at around $7K-8K USD all in (of course bulls are over $20K unless you're hunting on a problem animal control permit which means nothing is exportable.)

Best,

John