Thoughts on the Thunder Bay from Aero

[MrProper]

There's no reason they couldn't use the same length in this style, and I'm wondering why they didn't

I think because it becomes impractical. Thick stiff leather in combination with thick fur is unhandy. At least that's how it was with my jacket. Moving around in it was possible, but exhausting. I think it would have been significantly better with thinner shearling.
My classic shearling jackets also have thick fur, but the leather on the outside is buttery soft and I can move around in it just fine.

Do you think a fur lined or quilt lined wind flap would solve this the front cold zone.

That's a very cool Sheene. What type of lining did you used for the sleeves?

A windflap made of shearling will definitely help. As with the normal shearling jackets too. Since it overlaps and is wonderfully warm.

What surprises me is that Marc does not notice a cold bridge on his Grizzly. Because I notice the difference even on my PHWM. Where the moleskin is, it is much warmer than at the zipper, where just leather is. Of course, it must be cold enough for me to notice.

If I remember correctly, the sleeves were also lined with shearling. The jacket looked cool, but was not fine to wear.
I wouldn't order one of these again either. I just thought it was a good idea at the time ;-)

 

[Canuck Panda]

I think because it becomes impractical. Thick stiff leather in combination with thick fur is unhandy. At least that's how it was with my jacket. Moving around in it was possible, but exhausting. I think it would have been significantly better with thinner shearling.
My classic shearling jackets also have thick fur, but the leather on the outside is buttery soft and I can move around in it just fine.


A windflap made of shearling will definitely help. As with the normal shearling jackets too. Since it overlaps and is wonderfully warm.

What surprises me is that Marc does not notice a cold bridge on his Grizzly. Because I notice the difference even on my PHWM. Where the moleskin is, it is much warmer than at the zipper, where just leather is. Of course, it must be cold enough for me to notice.

If I remember correctly, the sleeves were also lined with shearling. The jacket looked cool, but was not fine to wear.
I wouldn't order one of these again either. I just thought it was a good idea at the time ;-)

I use a wool vest to compensate for all the cold zones. It gets very windy here so those cold zones are more noticeable for me. And I have plans to use wind flap (on a true winter jacket build) to eliminate the use of a vest. So just throw on and go type of winter jacket.

Lots of good info in this thead.

 

[Liveinstyle33]

I have a Thunderbay, I find it to be a very stylish and versatile jacket for mild cold and even serious cold conditions. It is my favorite jacket. If it is below freezing, just dress the jacket up, it won't take much to greatly enhance its warming capability.

Here is mine, it is in CXL Front Quarter Horsehide, and on the thinner side. I opted out of shearling and customized it with quilted navy cotton sateen and removed the knit cuffs in the sleeves. Although this quilted style is still warmer than most linings that are offered, it is probably less warm than shearling. The jacket is also lighter because it does not have a double layer of leather. I wanted it to be more versatile and not a very cold weather only jacket, and it has worked out very well in this regard. If I am in a t shirt and jacket only, about 58 degrees F and up becomes too warm, even with the jacket unzipped. Although windchill conditions can change this. I can still wear it in the 60s but there will likely be sweating if I get my heart rate even a little bit up, such as on a typical walk.

Assuming an increased heart rate from physical activity, the jacket can be worn in comfort without the need to layer anything, except maybe a beanie, from upper 50s to mid 30s. If you wear a sweater with this jacket when it is say, 50 degrees, possibly 45 degrees, and you go for a fast or long walk, you will regret it, too hot.

I can dress it up many ways with these items below.
To get the most out of the irvin collar, I wrap a scarf around it to hold it up. This by itself, will greatly increase the warming capability as well as resistance to cold wind. You will be like a cuirass armor and the windchill will not effect you, while everyone wearing a standard down jacket (they are extremely common) will be visibly shivering. I have seen this numerous times.

The coldest I have worn this jacket yet was 13 degrees F just a few weeks ago on the north rim of the grand canyon. I now know that it can handle even lower temperatures depending on what else I am wearing with it. I would certainly have to add layers though. This jacket can handle serious cold if you do it right. The shoulder gussets on mine add a bit of arm movement room, allowing for the wearing of thick sleeved sweaters if I choose.

Here is my cold weather kit with the Thunderbay.

I like these full sized sweaters, they go well with the jacket. Not justified unless around or below freezing.

This vest and the long sleeve are made of pure Merino Wool. Either one is a significant upgrade but if I wear both together, it better be very cold or I will overheat. The one on the right is not bulky, however it is dense and tight to the skin. This itself is a serious cold weather undergarment.

Other itmes, the scarf is quite useful.

A photo of the scarf holding the collar up, as it lacks the ability to secure itself like some bomber shearling jackets.

Hope this info was helpful/useful.

 

[Guppy]

Hope this info was helpful/useful.

Very! I like your scarf technique. Thanks!

 

[Liveinstyle33]

As for the "cold bridge" thing. I have never heard of or experienced anything like that before in this jacket. There is no cold area around the zipper or around the sections indicated, absolutely not.

 

[MrProper]

As for the "cold bridge" thing. I have never heard of or experienced anything like that before in this jacket. There is no cold area around the zipper or around the sections indicated, absolutely not.

I think no one will deny that leathers, especially those like CXL, are virtually non-insulating, right?
Two layers on top of each other won't help, as long as there is no other insulation between the layers.
So physically one part of the jacket is not as warm as the part with lining.
Whether I actually notice this depends on what I wear under the jacket (e.g. two merino sweaters), my individual cold sensation and whether my body has contact with the non-insulated part or not (e.g. because it is wide enough, ballooned by a belt etc. ).
If it were different, I would not need a warming lining for a cold-weather jacket.

You can observe this in the car at cold temperatures. It may be pleasantly warm inside, but if you touch the window or are close to it, you will feel the cold.

 

[Guppy]

I think no one will deny that leathers, especially those like CXL, are virtually non-insulating, right?
Two layers on top of each other won't help, as long as there is no other insulation between the layers.
So physically one part of the jacket is not as warm as the part with lining.
Whether I actually notice this depends on what I wear under the jacket (e.g. two merino sweaters), my individual cold sensation and whether my body has contact with the non-insulated part or not (e.g. because it is wide enough, ballooned by a belt etc. ).
If it were different, I would not need a warming lining for a cold-weather jacket.

You can observe this in the car at cold temperatures. It may be pleasantly warm inside, but if you touch the window or are close to it, you will feel the cold.

This is true. And you don't need to get theoretical about it, I have tested it and the jacket is colder where there is an insulation gap. Whether I can feel it or not depends on what I wear under the jacket. With enough layers, you can't feel it. Over just a shirt, it is noticeable.

I will note that when I tried wearing a scarf, wrapped around the collar and then tucked into the jacket at the throat, the scarf covers the bridge area and mitigates the problem well.

As for the bottom hem, the bottom few inches of the lining is corduroy, so the shearling doesn't snag on belt stuff, so there's less insulation here too. But so far it hasn't bothered me.

I expect to test in harsher weather as we go deeper into winter. I will continue to report.

 

[sshack]

Fit pics:

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This jacket looks much better on a person than the mannequin Aero uses. I never gave it a second glance on the website... actually thought it looked kind of weird with its cut and proportions. But on a person (you!), now I get it! It looks really good. I'm a fan. I just think the sleeve length is too long though. Not sure if it'll ride up enough, even as it wrinkles with wear.

 

[Guppy]

This jacket looks much better on a person than the mannequin Aero uses. I never gave it a second glance on the website... actually thought it looked kind of weird with its cut and proportions. But on a person (you!), now I get it! It looks really good. I'm a fan. I just think the sleeve length is too long though. Not sure if it'll ride up enough, even as it wrinkles with wear.

I agree they're slightly long. But I think it helps cover the gap between the wrist and glove. The sleeve openings are wide, which they need to be to accommodate layers, and to my surprise there are no storm cuffs. But the length helps to hide my bare hands from the wind, and if I'm wearing gloves it helps by sealing around the hand, and the wind doesn't get in there.

They may shorten a bit as creases develop, but how much remains to be seen.

 

[Peter Mackin]

Lovely looking jacket and easy to wear in the lighter leather. It wouldn't work for me though due to the length of the jacket, too short in the body for serious cold weather,another 2inchs needed. wouldn't make any difference if it was 1" fleece, your arse would still freeze in minus temps or get soaked in the rain.

 

[Carlos840]

I think no one will deny that leathers, especially those like CXL, are virtually non-insulating, right?
Two layers on top of each other won't help, as long as there is no other insulation between the layers.

I have to say that i now disagree with that statement.
Up untill a year ago i would have +1 you and said that the shell has no importance, it's all about the inside insulation, not anymore.
Last winter was the first winter during wich i rode my bike everyday, and i can tell you now that leather thickness makes a massive difference. A motorcycle in winter is basically a windchill simulator...

I am lucky enough to have a bunch of jackets that are built the same, ie all my LW have the same leather, the same lining, the only differences are whether they are cross zip or not, and whether they are thick or thin.
My experiment last year was to start with the same underlayers (long sleeve wool T shirt and wool jumper) and change what jacket i was wearing above. All the jackets have the same Nylon lining.

I started with a Cafe Racer, with a single layer of leather on the chest, then moved up to a cross zip with a double layer of leather on the chest and noticed a measurable difference. Same thickness, just two layers on the chest like a cross zip does.
I then compared going from a 3.5oz HH cross zip to a 4.5oz cross zip and once again noticed a measurable difference in felt warmth at road speeds.
I then moved up to my 5oz Moose cross zip and once again noticed a huge difference.
The Moose although less waterproof is noticeably better at cutting windchill than the 4.5oz Horse hide.

I don't know it this is because the moose is thicker or if it is because the hide itself is not as dense and trapping warm air within itself like a neoprene suit would, but it is a big difference and i now wear moose when riding in cold dry weather.

Lastly, it is IMO impossible to stay warm on a bike in a leather jacket when temps get close to freezing.
When it is close to 0c i change to a Gore-Tex riding suite and that itself feels twice as warm as any leather jacket is even without adding any extra insulation. It blocks close to 100% of the windchill, which no leather jacket can achieve.

All that to say that IMO leather thickness does change insulation capabilities, at least it affects how you feel windchill massively.

 

[MrProper]

I have to say that i now disagree with that statement.
Up untill a year ago i would have +1 you and said that the shell has no importance, it's all about the inside insulation, not anymore.
Last winter was the first winter during wich i rode my bike everyday, and i can tell you now that leather thickness makes a massive difference. A motorcycle in winter is basically a windchill simulator...

I am lucky enough to have a bunch of jackets that are built the same, ie all my LW have the same leather, the same lining, the only differences are whether they are cross zip or not, and whether they are thick or thin.
My experiment last year was to start with the same underlayers (long sleeve wool T shirt and wool jumper) and change what jacket i was wearing above. All the jackets have the same Nylon lining.

I started with a Cafe Racer, with a single layer of leather on the chest, then moved up to a cross zip with a double layer of leather on the chest and noticed a measurable difference. Same thickness, just two layers on the chest like a cross zip does.
I then compared going from a 3.5oz HH cross zip to a 4.5oz cross zip and once again noticed a measurable difference in felt warmth at road speeds.
I then moved up to my 5oz Moose cross zip and once again noticed a huge difference.
The Moose although less waterproof is noticeably better at cutting windchill than the 4.5oz Horse hide.

I don't know it this is because the moose is thicker or if it is because the hide itself is not as dense and trapping warm air within itself like a neoprene suit would, but it is a big difference and i now wear moose when riding in cold dry weather.

Lastly, it is IMO impossible to stay warm on a bike in a leather jacket when temps get close to freezing.
When it is close to 0c i change to a Gore-Tex riding suite and that itself feels twice as warm as any leather jacket is even without adding any extra insulation. It blocks close to 100% of the windchill, which no leather jacket can achieve.

All that to say that IMO leather thickness does change insulation capabilities, at least it affects how you feel windchill massively.

I believe that immediately.
Probably I have formulated it too black and white.
My sheepskin jackets are warmer than those from HH. Goat as well, my deerskin pants feel warm without lining. Crosszip is warmer at the chest than my café racer. I think that in this case the inner layer of leather is better decoupled from the cold due to the overlapping of the outer layer. Most of the cold passes through on the CXL jackets. Due to the leather being well saturated with wax and oil, the effect seems to be the same as with wet material (Of course in a weaker form).
So surely the type of tanning will have a good bit of influence on how warm or cool a leather jacket feels.
Although it must be considered with shades of gray, just leather is definitely cooler than leather with insulating lining.

 

[breezer]

Fit pics:

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whats going on with the sleeves?

 

[Tom71]

I think you did well, @Guppy. Looks unique, and you wear it well. Certainly not oversized, IMO, as you are unlikely to wear it without some layering. Personally, I could also easily live with how the sleeves turned out. A tad long, but nothing that would bother me.
If I were to nitpick, I’d rather have 0,5-1 inch more in the body to stop the cold from creeping in from down below.

I can understand the point you make about the shearling. Without first hand experience, I tend to agree to @MrProper that it makes the jacket more practical.

Hope you will enjoy the heck out of this. It’s a beauty!

 

[Guppy]

For those commenting on the sleeve length. Arms down at my sides, they fall to the first knuckle of my thumb, a bit long. Ideal length is to the wrist bone. But if I reach forward or bend my arms, the cuff is right where I want it to be. So I think it's ok. It certainly doesn't bother me. If the sleeves develop wrinkles and shorten up a bit, I will be fine, too.

 

[Peacoat]

I, too, have a TB, which is about 8 years old. The shearling is also about 1/4". With a wool shirt, you should be good down to 32º. Being comfortable down to 0º might be doable with a thick wool sweater., but that will probably depend on how easily chilled you are.

You guys in Cleveland are usually about 10º colder in the winter than we are. I found the TB to be a good choice for our climate here–Daytime highs in the upper 30s to 40s, and lows at night in the upper teens to the 20s. It does get colder than that here, and when it does, I go to wool or down. The TB would probably be OK with a heavy wool sweater, but that is a lot of bulk for me. I prefer to go with a different type of shell when I layer up. Just more comfortable that way.

Be careful with that zipper, though. Mine lasted less than a year, probably closer to 6 months. Those #6 zips just aren't beefy enough for all of the material in the TB. @Worf had the same problem with his TB.

I sent it to Allan, and he said it should have had a #10 to begin with. That's what he replaced it with, and I've had no further problems with it.

 

[Liveinstyle33]

I think no one will deny that leathers, especially those like CXL, are virtually non-insulating, right?
Two layers on top of each other won't help, as long as there is no other insulation between the layers.
So physically one part of the jacket is not as warm as the part with lining.
Whether I actually notice this depends on what I wear under the jacket (e.g. two merino sweaters), my individual cold sensation and whether my body has contact with the non-insulated part or not (e.g. because it is wide enough, ballooned by a belt etc. ).
If it were different, I would not need a warming lining for a cold-weather jacket.

You can observe this in the car at cold temperatures. It may be pleasantly warm inside, but if you touch the window or are close to it, you will feel the cold.

I suppose that is true, my "absolutely" comment might have been an exaggeration. It's just that when it is cold enough to wear an insulating layer heavier than a standard t shirt underneath, I don't notice it. The jacket's warming capability increases heavily just with that wool vest I posted a photo of. By itself, the Thunderbay is a moderate cold weather jacket, at least the quilted version I have with no knit cuffs. However, a few upgrades and I can walk around below freezing comfortably, even with nasty wind. It is no wear near at the cold weather protection level as a proper shearling bomber jacket, but unless you are in the arctic circle, I find those to be a bit overkill most of the time. "Most" of the time.

 

[ton312]

I think the jacket looks great! Sleeves are obviously a bit too long but I also imagine you’ll be wearing gloves with this jacket more often than not, and the sleeves become a non issue. I am surprised to see the mouton collar is as “thin” as it seems from the pics. If the lining is equal to that, that does seem on the thinner side. I had a shearling/mouton lined bootlegger and the mouton was twice as thick, actually would’ve preferred it thinner as the jacket looked to be a heavy brown egg when worn.

 

[Guppy]

I think the jacket looks great! Sleeves are obviously a bit too long but I also imagine you’ll be wearing gloves with this jacket more often than not, and the sleeves become a non issue. I am surprised to see the mouton collar is as “thin” as it seems from the pics. If the lining is equal to that, that does seem on the thinner side. I had a shearling/mouton lined bootlegger and the mouton was twice as thick, actually would’ve preferred it thinner as the jacket looked to be a heavy brown egg when worn.

The collar is thicker than the lining in the body. It's tough to measure but I'd estimate it to be 0.5" on the collar, and 0.25" on the body. I'd probably not have thought anything of it if they had been another +0.25" each.

 

[Bfd70]

I have a Thunderbay, I find it to be a very stylish and versatile jacket for mild cold and even serious cold conditions. It is my favorite jacket. If it is below freezing, just dress the jacket up, it won't take much to greatly enhance its warming capability.

Here is mine, it is in CXL Front Quarter Horsehide, and on the thinner side. I opted out of shearling and customized it with quilted navy cotton sateen and removed the knit cuffs in the sleeves. Although this quilted style is still warmer than most linings that are offered, it is probably less warm than shearling. The jacket is also lighter because it does not have a double layer of leather. I wanted it to be more versatile and not a very cold weather only jacket, and it has worked out very well in this regard. If I am in a t shirt and jacket only, about 58 degrees F and up becomes too warm, even with the jacket unzipped. Although windchill conditions can change this. I can still wear it in the 60s but there will likely be sweating if I get my heart rate even a little bit up, such as on a typical walk.

Assuming an increased heart rate from physical activity, the jacket can be worn in comfort without the need to layer anything, except maybe a beanie, from upper 50s to mid 30s. If you wear a sweater with this jacket when it is say, 50 degrees, possibly 45 degrees, and you go for a fast or long walk, you will regret it, too hot.

I can dress it up many ways with these items below.
To get the most out of the irvin collar, I wrap a scarf around it to hold it up. This by itself, will greatly increase the warming capability as well as resistance to cold wind. You will be like a cuirass armor and the windchill will not effect you, while everyone wearing a standard down jacket (they are extremely common) will be visibly shivering. I have seen this numerous times.

The coldest I have worn this jacket yet was 13 degrees F just a few weeks ago on the north rim of the grand canyon. I now know that it can handle even lower temperatures depending on what else I am wearing with it. I would certainly have to add layers though. This jacket can handle serious cold if you do it right. The shoulder gussets on mine add a bit of arm movement room, allowing for the wearing of thick sleeved sweaters if I choose.

Here is my cold weather kit with the Thunderbay.
View attachment 473313



View attachment 473314

View attachment 473315​

I like these full sized sweaters, they go well with the jacket. Not justified unless around or below freezing.

View attachment 473316

This vest and the long sleeve are made of pure Merino Wool. Either one is a significant upgrade but if I wear both together, it better be very cold or I will overheat. The one on the right is not bulky, however it is dense and tight to the skin. This itself is a serious cold weather undergarment.


View attachment 473317

Other itmes, the scarf is quite useful.

View attachment 473318

A photo of the scarf holding the collar up, as it lacks the ability to secure itself like some bomber shearling jackets.

View attachment 473319


Hope this info was helpful/useful.

Great write up and looks super cool.