Panamas blocked in Ecuador

[Kento]

Hello guys,

I'm a first time poster, but have already lurked around for a while (already bought two Akubras thanks to discussions here - so thanks!).

Anyway, I'd like to get my first real Panama hat, and would like to be able to wear it with a suit. It seems like a Montechristi would probably be preferable then. Based on the forum's general advice, I'm planning on going to Panama Bob.

My basic question here is: What do you guys think about panama hats blocked in Ecuador? Obviously they are cheaper than US-blocked hats and I was thinking of getting one as my first panama, and then probably get another one blocked in the US in the future. That might help me kind of get a feel for things. Is this a bad idea? I mean, would you suggest just staying away from hats blocked in Ecuador altogether? Do they look really cheap or do they have any other serious disadvantages?

Thanks!

 

[DJH]

Personally, Kento I'd get a Montecristi that was blocked in USA.

Panama Bob often works with Tom Gomez (Tom-n-Perris here at the Lounge) who does a fantastic job blocking these hats. You can get them directly from Tom as well - great hats at a good price.

 

[danofarlington]

I have some Panama hats, some pretty nice. One of them I bought in Quito, Ecuador, unblocked. I would have the hats blocked in the U.S. Hat geniuses they are in Ecuador; blocking geniuses they are not.

 

[tonyb]

DJH has is right, Kento, on all accounts. As does danofarlington.

A finely woven Panama hat that isn't blocked in a style you'd prefer is not a hat you'll be happy with, no matter how much it costs, and those blocked-down-in-Ecuador hats are more than likely not gonna be blocked in a style you'd prefer.

Straw hats are a whole 'nother animal than felts. To do a proper job of blocking straws requires shaped blocks (the block is in the shape of the finished crown, as contrasted with the "open crown" blocks generally used with felt hats), and corresponding pieces called "tippers," with which the blocks' shapes are pressed into the straw bodies.

The repertoire of a hatter working in straw is limited by his blocks -- their sizes and styles. A shop well equipped for straws is a wondrous thing to behold, for these days assembling such a collection of blocks and other equipment almost always involves a considerable expenditure of time and money.

Tom Gomez of Gomez Hat Co. (http://gomezhatcompany.com/index.html) has among the more impressively equipped straw hat shops that I know of, and he knows how to use all that groovy stuff.

Art Fawcett of VS Custom Hats (http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/) certainly knows his way around a straw hat as well, and his shop is also quite well equipped.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Here are some straw blocks.

 

[Kento]

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like a Panama blocked in Ecuador isn't such a good idea. I think I'll try out Panama Bob's "classic" blocked in the US. The info on the shaped wooden blocks is interesting... do they not use these in Ecuador at all?

For around $260 I could get a Panama blocked in Ecuador with 20 weaves per inch, or one blocked in the US with 16 weaves per inch. At about the same price point, I'm guessing it would be better to pay for US blocking than for a finer weave?

 

[Kento]

Obviously with around $260 - 16 weaves per inch we're not talking about the highest end. I'm thinking a getting a first, or "starter" Panama here and if I get a more expensive one later I'll appreciate the difference more. Is this reasonable or is a 16 weave hat going to look bad with a suit?

 

[T Jones]

If you have a healthy bank account, Brent Black makes some real works of art of Montecristi Panamas....pretty pricey though.

http://www.brentblack.com/pages/panamahats.html

 

[danofarlington]

If you have a healthy bank account, Brent Black makes some real works of art of Montecristi Panamas....pretty pricey though.

http://www.brentblack.com/pages/panamahats.html

...but he also contracts out for blocking, at least in some cases.

 

[nice hat dude!]

If you have a healthy bank account, Brent Black makes some real works of art of Montecristi Panamas....pretty pricey though.

I personally think $25,000.00 surpasses pretty pricey unless you're Bill GatesOMO

 

[Rabbit]

Obviously with around $260 - 16 weaves per inch we're not talking about the highest end. I'm thinking a getting a first, or "starter" Panama here and if I get a more expensive one later I'll appreciate the difference more. Is this reasonable or is a 16 weave hat going to look bad with a suit?

Welcome to the Lounge, Kento!

Your hat research has led you to the right conclusions. Aim low for the first Panama (that's what Panama Bob suggests as well), and go for U.S. blocking.

Personally, I was very very sure that I wanted to wear finer Panamas from the start, but the usual approach of having a starter Panama is still an excellent idea. I have handled a 250wpsi Montecristi from Panama Bob for a friend of mine later on, and seeing the lower count or "normal" Panamas did help me to appreciate the finer ones even more. By now I've handled a 24x24, two 28x28 and a 33x38 Montecristi blocked by Art Fawcett/ VS Hats, plus some 1930s vintage Montecristi Panamas in 17x21, 26x25, and 32x35wpi.
By the way, a single wpi number (like 16wpi) does not necessarily mean that the weave count will be the same in horizontal and vertical directions. As a matter of fact that would be an exception to the rule; usually the vertical count is higher than the horizontal count. In other words, a 16wpi will probably be something like 14x16 = 224wpsi (weves per square inch).

As for the combination of Panamas and summer suits, well it really depends on how high you set the bar. You see, most people are unaccustomed even to a 16wpi Panama, which means that it still looks terrific when compared to the high street junk of straw hats of various provenance.
On the other hand, if you wear a Panama with an expensive linen suit, a higher weave count would look most appropriate. Still, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't wear something in the 250wpsi range. Some folks even prefer the lower counts, mainly because they're more easily replacable but also for some other reasons. They are more loosely woven (assuming we're talking about closed weaves as in the pictures below, not calado/ semicalado open weaves) and consequently let through more air - on the other hand, the straw on low-count weaves is a bit thicker, naturally.

Below are some images that might help. Download the full resolution images for more detail.

250wpsi versus 600wpsi:

Full resolution image

Full resolution image

33x38wpi versus 28x28wpi:

Full resolution image

33x38wpi next to closeup of french navy linen suit:

Full resolution image

Weave count is a fact and fineness of weave is more in the realm of opinions. Still, I'll add that a 250wpsi is not a particularly noteworthy hat in terms of fineness, but it's a nice starter and serves extremely well for casual wear even after you've become accustomed to higher counts. Again, some folks might even prefer them over the higher counts. 400wpsi is where is begins to get dressy, and the price is still affordable. A 600wpsi really is a very fine hat and a work of art by any standard. Once the weave count is in the 900wpsi range, you have a real treasure. Of course, this a very much a matter opinion so others might have different views. The consistency of weave and the color of the straw also makes a big difference in terms of how fine or how dressy the finished hat looks like. A very evenly woven 400wpsi looks very nice indeed.

For the record, even though I have several high-count Montecristi Panamas I'll have to pick up a low-count (250wpsi or thereabouts) sometime as I'd like one for casual wear.

 

[danofarlington]

Any "dress" straw or Panama is probably going to look good with a suit. You can buy a cheap one and upgrade the next time, no problem. Having several also gives you some choices when you go out the door.

 

[Kento]

I personally think $25,000.00 surpasses pretty pricey unless you're Bill GatesOMO

Do they have a monthly payment plan for those? Others might be paying off their cars while I'm still paying off my hat.

 

[danofarlington]

Yes, but which is more essential? I think the answer is obvious. Brent Black wins.

 

[Kento]

Nik / Rabbit:
Thanks for the details and the pictures. Very enlightening.

While I can see the difference between the hats when looking closely at them side by side, I doubt I or anyone I normally run into would pick up on exactly how fine the hat is just by seeing it on someone's head on the street. I think a lower weave fino (250 wpi) will be a good starter for me and it looks like it will work well enough when dressing up, especially since, as you say, most people aren't used to seeing to seeing these at all.

If I decide to pull the trigger on a finer, more expensive Panama later, then my initial dress hat can become my more casual one.

 

[memphislawyer]

I dont know if he ships overseas but I got a deal/steal on a parabuntal straw hat blocked in an optimo style from Buckaroo Hatters. I have a Panama Bob hat as well, a cuenca and Nik is right, compared to what most men get for what passes as a straw hat, the weave on my Cuenca looks great. I get compliments on it. But when handling the parabuntal hat, it was a 60 year old hat body that was located, so basically new, old stock.

 

[Rabbit]

Nik / Rabbit:
Thanks for the details and the pictures. Very enlightening.

While I can see the difference between the hats when looking closely at them side by side, I doubt I or anyone I normally run into would pick up on exactly how fine the hat is just by seeing it on someone's head on the street. I think a lower weave fino (250 wpi) will be a good starter for me and it looks like it will work well enough when dressing up, especially since, as you say, most people aren't used to seeing to seeing these at all.

If I decide to pull the trigger on a finer, more expensive Panama later, then my initial dress hat can become my more casual one.

Absolutely, Kento. You hit the nail on the head. Being surrounded by cheapo straw hats at best makes even a lower count Montecristi or a finer Cuenca look quite dressy by comparison, plus the fineness of the hat is not too visible from a distance anyway.
The idea of having an initial lower-count Panama for dresing up that becomes a hat for more casual outfits later on is perfectly reasonable.

 

[T Jones]

If you have a healthy bank account, Brent Black makes some real works of art of Montecristi Panamas....pretty pricey though.

I personally think $25,000.00 surpasses pretty pricey unless you're Bill GatesOMO

...I agree. I don't have that kind of cash either, but he does have some really nice ones for a few hundred bucks. The Mombaso Cafe is $350.

 

[T Jones]

Nik / Rabbit:
Thanks for the details and the pictures. Very enlightening.

While I can see the difference between the hats when looking closely at them side by side, I doubt I or anyone I normally run into would pick up on exactly how fine the hat is just by seeing it on someone's head on the street. I think a lower weave fino (250 wpi) will be a good starter for me and it looks like it will work well enough when dressing up, especially since, as you say, most people aren't used to seeing to seeing these at all.

If I decide to pull the trigger on a finer, more expensive Panama later, then my initial dress hat can become my more casual one.

...here's some helpful information about Panama hat grades...

http://www.brentblack.com/pages/panamahatgrades2.html ...

...the panama I'm wearing in my avatar would make a decent starter if you don't want to spend a lot of money...it's a Bogart Panama by 'Cappas', blocked in the USA...I got it from Holland Hats for $85.

 

[nice hat dude!]

...I agree. I don't have that kind of cash either, but he does have some really nice ones for a few hundred bucks. The Mombaso Cafe is $350.

Is that the one in your avatar pic?that's a nice looking hat.And yea I realize that BB does have cheaper hats than the 25 grand one.