Himel Bros jacket, 1st winter update

[jeo]

I thought it was entertaining until folks here started bickering with each other.

Sorry that's the south Philadelphian in me coming out, but when I feel I'm getting called out I won't stand in the corner with my hands down absorbing punishment, I will put my hands up, defend myself and swing back.

Should not have participated in the bickering.

 

[El Marro]

I could see "are you a member of the Fedora Lounge" becoming a question prior to the order approval process.

When I placed my second order with Stu at LW I mentioned TFL several times. I hadn’t planned to (figured it might be dangerous…) but there were a couple features I had seen here that I wanted to incorporate into my jacket So I told Stu I was a forum member here.
He did not really react, one way, or the other, rather he told me that he could make the changes I was looking for, and how much it would cost me for the modifications.

 

[red devil]

I thought it was entertaining until folks here started bickering with each other.

No bickering, just lively conversation

We are far from the flame wars of old lol

 

[Damon141]

First I want to thank everyone for the support, even the guys that were questioning my reasoning as is your right. Clearly I waited too long to come forward, obviously I gave a multitude of reasons, I did forget to mention that I received the jacket in summer time and i didn't actually wear it for 3-4 months.
But I think one thing that is agreed that this jacket should not have made it out of the shop, I don't think anyone could disagree with that considering the price, let's be honest, many carry the same leathers and build materials so where is the extra money going to?
His unique designs? Maybe some are but this is a J100 variant which has numerous offerings far below what he charged, I could have had a John Chapman J100 for $1,500.


I finally received an answer via Email. It's not the answer I was looking for sadly and even after taking more photos with notes on the flaw they said they were unable to offer a Remake but they did offer a whopping 10% discount on a future jacket. Kind of an insult on top of his insults on Instagram.

I left the thread alone to give him a chance to do the right thing, sent him 3 more emails and today I received a response from Sophia his personal assistant, who told me the news. ( *edit*. I'm curious if Dave Himel directed this response or if she responded on her own). Basically customers have two weeks to return the jacket. Which is not fair because sometimes you notice things later and the Flaws still remain. Think about it, if I bought a major household appliance or car and it was defective, a good company would remedy the issue. Is one remake really going to hurt the company? I would have even paid the leather/material cost if asked. I just wanted what I ordered, a premium leather jacket.

Again the fact remains that no matter how long I waited or what I said in the beginning. This jacket is poorly constructed with a novice level stitching, i don't care about stitch count, I just wanted them even with no back and forth stitching using different(parallel holes) not using the same path, certainly no empty needle holes.

 

[Damon141]

 

[Tom71]

First I want to thank everyone for the support, even the guys that were questioning my reasoning as is your right. Clearly I waited too long to come forward, obviously I gave a multitude of reasons, I did forget to mention that I received the jacket in summer time and i didn't actually wear it for 3-4 months.
But I think one thing that is agreed that this jacket should not have made it out of the shop, I don't think anyone could disagree with that considering the price, let's be honest, many carry the same leathers and build materials so where is the extra money going to?
His unique designs? Maybe some are but this is a J100 variant which has numerous offerings far below what he charged, I could have had a John Chapman J100 for $1,500.


I finally received an answer via Email. It's not the answer I was looking for sadly and even after taking more photos with notes on the flaw they said they were unable to offer a Remake but they did offer a whopping 10% discount on a future jacket. Kind of an insult on top of his insults on Instagram.

I left the thread alone to give him a chance to do the right thing, sent him 3 more emails and today I received a response from Sophia his personal assistant, who told me the news. Basically you have two weeks to return the jacket. Which is not fair because sometimes you notice things later, if I bought a major household appliance or car and it was defective, a good company would remedy the issue. Is one remake really going to hurt the company? I would have even paid the leather/material cost if asked. I just wanted what I ordered, a premium leather jacket.

Again the fact remains that no matter how long I waited or what I said in the beginning. This jacket is poorly constructed with a novice level stitching, i don't care about stitch count, I just wanted them even with no back and forth stitching using different(parallel holes) not using the same path, certainly no empty needle holes.

View attachment 509139 View attachment 509140 View attachment 509141 View attachment 509142 View attachment 509143 View attachment 509144 View attachment 509145 View attachment 509146 View attachment 509146 View attachment 509147 View attachment 509148

Sorry to hear that. That’s a disappointing result.

Regardless of all that has been said so far, regardless of your initial reaction to the jacket - this leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I consider myself to be in the group that finds the generalised and harsh criticism of Himel in the past unbalanced and inappropriate, but I find it hard to imagine to add a fourth jacket of his to my collection. This is not how I would want to be treated when spending big money on a premium product.

On a hopefully conciliatory note: I still find that you own an exceptionally beautiful jacket that fits your to a T. In my book, it’s still „one good thing“, and I do hope this whole episode doesn’t stop you from enjoying the heck out of it!

 

[jacketjunkie]

The mere thought of receiving a 3000 USD jacket with stitching like that is so absurd I cannot help but laugh. If this joke was played on me, I would have instantly returned it and sued for my money if necessary. Now that you have kept it for months, you are in a tricky spot, feeling bad for you, sorry man. At least it fits well and is gorgous from far away.

 

[ton312]

That sucks Damon. Clearly Himel Bros does not stand behind their product. So basically what you're left with is....

"Here's a 10% off coupon for a jacket that will have a 75% chance of needing to be remade at some form of expense to you...."

Let's not mince words here...The stitching on your jacket is terrible. It is far worse than the worst Aero, SB, LW JL, Vanson, Langlitz, CAL, Brooks, Bates, Schott, 5 Star, Polo, etc, etc, etc jacket or any maker I've ever handled in over 20 years of collecting. New or vintage. For the price paid it is utterly absurd.

Get yourself in the @regius queue. He ACTUALLY SEWS THE STUFF WITH HIS OWN HANDS and will out perform Himel's machinist blindfolded, drunk and hanging upside down. He will also be able to fit you better. He's a lifter himself and understands physique challenges and how the body and jacket should work together. He will out do your experiment with Himel 10:1. I can absolutely assure you of that.

@jeo how long did you wait before bringing your desire for a remake to Himel's attention? If memory serves it was not immediate?

 

[Damon141]

What gets me is this whole handmade thing, given I am a novice and don't actually make things according to his words but I'm not sure there is a jacket company that uses automated robots to sew leather jackets.

Then he Turncoats pun intended and now says his jackets are made to beat up and trash, far cry from the video's advertising stitch quality. If you want a beat ''em up jacket then you can pick up a Vanson Comet for $589. Clearly the price of the Kensington is higher than any Cafe Racer in the market, besides the Italian fashion houses but that's a different market. So you expect the price to reflect their work.

That sucks Damon. Clearly Himel Bros does not stand behind their product. So basically what you're left with is....

"Here's a 10% off coupon for a jacket that will have a 75% chance of needing to be remade at some form of expense to you...."

Let's not mince words here...The stitching on your jacket is terrible. It is far worse than the worst Aero, SB, LW JL, Vanson, Langlitz, CAL, Brooks, Bates, Schott, 5 Star, Polo, etc, etc, etc jacket or any maker I've ever handled in over 20 years of collecting. New or vintage. For the price paid it is utterly absurd.

Get yourself in the @regius queue. He ACTUALLY SEWS THE STUFF WITH HIS OWN HANDS and will out perform Himel's machinist blindfolded, drunk and hanging upside down. He will also be able to fit you better. He's a lifter himself and understands physique challenges and how the body and jacket should work together. He will out do your experiment with Himel 10:1. I can absolutely assure you of that.

@jeo how long did you wait before bringing your desire for a remake to Himel's attention? If memory serves it was not immediate?

Been in queue since we spoke months ago he really has a passion for this and it shows when you talk to him.

With the new pictures i posted, can anyone judge the flaws on my jacket compared to Jeo's?

 

[Marc mndt]

I feel like he's trying to gaslight his customers.

It's not bad construction quality you're seeing. We were never about construction quality. We are about creativity. Didn't you understand that?

 

[Will Zach]

Funny how he responds to this thread on his IG only, tagging #screwthetrolls, among others. Does that mean Damon, the screwed-over customer? One more insult?

#uniquevision
#aheadofthecurve
#tryandkeepup
#mytribe
#canuck
#horsehide
#cottonthread
#tigerstripe
#screwthetrolls

 

[marker2037]

Flabbergasted. I mean, that's like 10 areas of the jacket with poor to horrible stitching. That's less than apprentice level and one of the worst stitched jackets I've seen here. I'm sorry you received such a piss poor item. I would not be happy paying $300 for that, let alone $3,000.

As a customer service center and marketing business consultant, I will just say that this could and should have been handled expediently resulting in a happy customer, a positive outcome, and a good amount of positive publicity for all to see. Anyone researching "Himel" on the internet is bound to wind up seeing a few threads on TFL.

He's only hurting himself and his business in the long run, by taking what he sees as a victory now. That's his choice of course, but I doubt Damon will ever buy another jacket from him and I doubt anyone who's shopping Himel and finds this thread would actually go through with a sale. I know I wouldn't support the business.


"We co-conspire with design resources with our customers to create unique objects that will manifest existant icons for those people that join the tribe."



-"This stitch looks off."
-"So it was with your existent icon."

 

[TheDonEffect]

Excuse me?! Sorry, no.

Threads like this escalate because of people who contribute absolutely nothing of value besides their, usually extremely negative and inflammatory opinions that serves no purpose.

A real contribution to the thread and to the community.

I’m one of the few trying to bring positivity into the thread.

As I laid out, my posts were pertinent and directly related to either a comment made by another member or what was being discussed.

While I totally believe in everyone’s right, including yours, to post their opinions, your first and second post in this thread were just ‘piling on’ opinion posts. It was you saying how it’s unacceptable and that you would want a remake and just generally negative comments that bring zero value.

Now you’re calling me names, saying I’m an apologist. Ok, that’s your opinion. I’ve admitted that I have a bias. You’re only seeing this from the “let’s burn Himel down” angle.

I think most here would agree that OP should have handled this privately and reach a resolution before posting publicly. That would have been the right thing to do, while you yourself said you would post a negative review first because you know you’ll be wasting a ton of time trying to reach a resolution privately. Just shows us your mindset.



And now we’re going back and forth arguing and who is to blame?

You quoted me first saying that if I think the OPs jacket is jacked, which I do, then why am I defending Himel. Go back and read, not once did I defend Himel in regards to the OPs jacket. In fact it was quite the opposite. So you made a false statement.

My “defending” of Himel in other posts was me trying to show that it’s not all bad when it comes to Himel. Trying to bring some positive, some balance. If you don’t think that’s pertinent then that also shows us where your head is at. I think most people here appreciated it.

What balance do I feel I need to bring? Same as you feeling the need to share your opinion.

I know you’re not going to let this go so this will be my last post in this thread. You can have the last word if you want so have at it boss.

Thank you for your last post procalamation, you and Himel now have that in common. If the shoe fits...

There seems to be a few camps here.

1. I think we all fall in this camp (don't recall anyone arguing otherwise) is that the jacket that started this post is not good and does not represent a high end jacket and/or a brand that seems to boast about its high quality.

2. another camp has spoken up to note that not all HB jackets are to this bad standard and that those of us who have HB jackets that we enjoy, we are happy with our purchase and don't believe the whole brand should be tarnished over this and some other notable problem jackets. This is a natural position because a) the good jackets are worthy and/or b) we have a natural defense mechanism to want to back up our purchase. Yet in no way are we saying that forgives the bad jackets, just that there's another side to the coin.

3. yet another camp is insisting that HB is not good, not worth it, etc. They've seen enough bad instances of bad jackets, and their mind is made up.

4. A variation of camp 3, where not only are the HB bad jackets not good, but "all" HB jackets are not worthy of the praise, price, etc. and that the happy customers are somehow blind or ignorant.

What's most important is that we all agree that Damon's jacket is bad. End of story. Or so you would think.

I'm not saying Himmel is handling this correctly. But I don't understand what that has to do with those of us who are happy with his jackets. If you don't like Himmel or his jackets, don't buy one. And in the spirit of sharing your opinion on a forum, openly say you don't like it or you don't think it's worth the money. But to taunt the people who do like them, I don't get it.

I agree, but will add that there is another camp that believes OP did something wrong on some level, hence some level of victim blaming/shaming. Hey, I get it, if you post something on the internet, you're opening yourself up for criticisms yourself, but it doesn't make those criticisms right.

Surely your not implying that everybody who has a different opinion than you is automatically wrong?

Of course not, because that would make me Himel

 

[Observe]

"Nerds with microscopes" LMAO. Worth the cost of admission honestly to get a line like that.

 

[Carlos840]

I feel like he's trying to gaslight his customers.

It's not bad construction quality you're seeing. We were never about construction quality. We are about creativity. Didn't you understand that?

View attachment 509173

You know what is hilarious?

This was Dave's email signature in 2018 when i was communicating with him regarding my Chevalier:

" we do custom

if you want more information about what I do please just ask...best quality,

best sewing best leather

best

Himel"

 

[58panheadfan]

View attachment 509149 View attachment 509150 View attachment 509151 View attachment 509152 View attachment 509153 View attachment 509154 View attachment 509155 View attachment 509156 View attachment 509157 View attachment 509158

Regardless of the answer you got but you should have noticed all these flaws you listed here within seconds of receiving the jacket!?

 

[TheDonEffect]

OP, this is an unfortunate situation.

The practical matter is that yes you did indeed wait too long to come forward to address this issue, but reasonably you were unsuspecting of an issue.

Is it then the burden of the consumer to know jackets at the level of many on these forums to evaluate a received good? I'd argue in this case no, since we're talking about a $2650 jacket from a maker that went out of their way to gloat about arbitrary quality standards like stitch count, throwing stones at other makers about their subpar stitching, etc.

What further underscores this point is that I believe all the makers in this space, heck in the $1000+ space, would expeditiously take back the jacket to not have that blemish on their reputation.

Instead, Himel feels this is acceptable, shame on you for not knowing, and shame on everyone else who thinks Himel did anything wrong. Himel is actually taking the victim position in this.

On the bright side, end of the day you still got a great fitting jacket, that still looks great, that should hold up over time.

 

[ton312]

Regardless of the answer you got but you should have noticed all these flaws you listed here within seconds of receiving the jacket!?

Stitching doesn't move....what difference does that make?

 

[marker2037]

You can't send a product to a customer and then ask them to "find the flaws yourself". That's just bad business and not standing behind your craftmanship. Maybe Himel thinks Damon purposefully put his jacket under a sewing machine and wonked those stitches himself?

 

[58panheadfan]

Stitching doesn't move....what difference does that make?

You obviously didn't understand what I wanted to say: If you get a new car with scratches, for example, you complain immediately and don't wait months... these defects are so obvious that even someone who is not experienced can see them. Whether and how the manufacturer would have reacted if these flaws had been reported immediately can be speculated about... (a refund within 2 weeks after receiving?) but, however, such a jacket should never have left the factory.