Himel Bros jacket, 1st winter update

[58panheadfan]

Long live the thread.

I don't know what you all (ok, some) have. I find this thread very entertaining. And as long as no one is personally attacked/insulted, I would see no reason to close the thread.
If this is getting to be too much for someone, he can stop reading this thread.

You got it straight to the point, many readers/posters aren't really interested in the issue but rather in having fun (at the expense of others)... it's a character thing that you may or may not partake in. It remains to be seen whether something like this is ultimately expedient.

 

[Harris HTM]

It doesn't need any feedback from OP in this thread afterwards either, it can be closed.

On the contrary, I think it would be wise to keep the thread open and more important to see the outcome of it.
Really recently there was a thread here about a faulty jacket (puckering at the attachment of the sleeve to the body), coincidentally the jacket was made by one of the makers criticised by Himel in his social media, and mainly by his fans here, for their poor stitching. If I remember well, and please correct me if I'm wrong because I cannot find the thread with a quick search, the member posted photo's of the flaws without waiting for a reply from the maker. The maker came back to him privately, really fast, apologising, accepting the faulty item, and issuing a refund.
I truly believe that if Himel had done the same, then this would have been appreciated. But I do get that feeling that the poor stitch quality in Damon's jacket is not yet acknowledged - let alone made up for - by the maker.

 

[58panheadfan]

The OP was told that he would get an answer on his chosen complaint platform was he not?

This thread is still going strong, and will keep doing so as long as Himel avoids posting here but continues posting on Instagram trying to justify himself.

The best way to end this thread would be for him to post here, but he seems to lack the backbone to do so.

Even if he said so, he has the right to choose otherwise. He's under no obligation to anyone, let alone any forum member (except the OP, if he wants).

 

[Aloysius]

Really recently there was a thread here about a faulty jacket (puckering at the attachment of the sleeve to the body), coincidentally the jacket was made by one of the makers criticised by Himel in his social media, and mainly by his fans here, for their poor stitching.

I didn’t make a thread about it but this exact situation happened to me, with a jacket from a brand that’s been mocked by Himel fans here for their stitching (which is by no stretch bad, just lower stitch count—not Aero in this case, an American one). Immediate return label sent to me after I made a call, refund as soon as they got it.

 

[58panheadfan]

On the contrary, I think it would be wise to keep the thread open and more important to see the outcome of it.
Really recently there was a thread here about a faulty jacket (puckering at the attachment of the sleeve to the body), coincidentally the jacket was made by one of the makers criticised by Himel in his social media, and mainly by his fans here, for their poor stitching. If I remember well, and please correct me if I'm wrong because I cannot find the thread with a quick search, the member posted photo's of the flaws without waiting for a reply from the maker. The maker came back to him privately, really fast, apologising, accepting the faulty item, and issuing a refund.
I truly believe that if Himel had done the same, then this would have been appreciated. But I do get that feeling that the poor stitch quality in Damon's jacket is not yet acknowledged - let alone made up for - by the maker.

You could have done that if you wanted to... as mentioned before, it's not up to us to decide how a problem should be solved. Certainly there are wishful thinking in this regard, but ultimately everyone can now decide for themselves whether they want to buy a Himel Bros leather jacket in the future and, as also mentioned, the market, i.e. the customers, will determine the demand for Himel Bros leather jackets themselves.

 

[Harris HTM]

it's not up to us to decide how a problem should be solved

No it is obviously not up to us. I myself never ran a business so I know nothing about customer service.
But I hope we can agree that from different approaches of solving problems and making up for your mistakes, some are better than the other.

 

[MrProper]

You got it straight to the point, many readers/posters aren't really interested in the issue but rather in having fun (at the expense of others)... it's a character thing that you may or may not partake in. It remains to be seen whether something like this is ultimately expedient.

Please don't swing the moral cudgel now.
Just because it's an entertaining thread doesn't mean you're uninterested in the topic.
And if this forum were not generally entertaining, it would undoubtedly not have this popularity and number of members.
And maybe we shouldn't forget one thing... this is about luxury problems and not existential things.
If you think the thread could be closed, that's perfectly ok, as long as other opinions are accepted.
That's the beauty of opinions... everyone is allowed to have their own.

 

[red devil]

I truly believe that if Himel had done the same, then this would have been appreciated. But I do get that feeling that the poor stitch quality in Damon's jacket is not yet acknowledged - let alone made up for - by the maker.

If we are to go by his Instagram posts, it is as you say.

Even if he said so, he has the right to choose otherwise. He's under no obligation to anyone, let alone any forum member (except the OP, if he wants).

Nobody is forcing him - or trying to - in any way, where did you see any obligation implied in my post?

He said something and is doing something else so far, that is plain to see.

 

[Tom71]

These sort of threads escalate because of apologists who claim they're trying to be fair and balance while offering a perspective that is not pertinent or asked for with what we're talking about, such as telling the OP that he should've handled things better. OP did nothing to deserve that.

Further, Himel has a history of doing this, and his continued behavior like his recent IG post does not put him above criticism.

What balance do you feel you need to bring? You said it yourself, you don't need to defend Himel since he's clearly doing a great job at brand management.

Surely your not implying that everybody who has a different opinion than you is automatically wrong?

 

[Rgcards]

I started a similar thread a while back, although I originally tried to hide that it was a himel jacket. The problem as I see it is himel’s marketing. For years he bragged about his stiching precision and denigrated other products. Now, when that claim cannot be defended, he starts to post about the macro vs the micro , and claims artisanal variantion as an excuse. It’s like he was selling gourmet food, then when someone points out it tastes bad, he says, the point was nutritional value.

Contrast this to lw or good wear. No one can match Stu for hyperbole or disdain for competitors, and his pricing model is not always appreciated. His jackets can approach himel prices depending on model and customization. Yet everyone agrees: lw delivers on their product. Sure sometimes sizing is wrong. Yes he insists on only aniline due. But every jacket is beautifully mad.

Goodyear makes beautiful jackets. But Jim specifically says that they are made in the vintage manner. Fast and strong. No where does he claim it will be perfect, although they almost always are. In fact he recently sold an imperial and pointed that he felt he has improved the jacket, because he has learned more about making jackets. No arrogance. That’s why these makers don’t inspire the passion himel does. I own 2 himel jackets and I like them. One looks like it was made by a student, the other is much better. But himel claims that his jackets are somehow superior to companies like Schott, aero, Eastman etc. They are not. They may use nicer leather, depends on taste. They may have a nicer pattern, depends on taste. The price is what it is, only the consumer can determine the value to them. But himels insistence that his jackets are better made is the problem, because some people take offense when they can see that they are being manipulated. I’m all for buying a himel jacket, I might buy another. But I’ll buy it because I like the way it looks, not because of his hype

 

[Rgcards]

I don’t know how Jim got in there. Obviously referring to Jon Chapman

 

[58panheadfan]

... He said something and is doing something else so far, that is plain to see.

Principally, he can do or not do what he wants and on which channels he expresses himself. Whether it's gentlemanly is another question.

 

[red devil]

I started a similar thread a while back, although I originally tried to hide that it was a himel jacket. The problem as I see it is himel’s marketing. For years he bragged about his stiching precision and denigrated other products. Now, when that claim cannot be defended, he starts to post about the macro vs the micro , and claims artisanal variantion as an excuse. It’s like he was selling gourmet food, then when someone points out it tastes bad, he says, the point was nutritional value.

Contrast this to lw or good wear. No one can match Stu for hyperbole or disdain for competitors, and his pricing model is not always appreciated. His jackets can approach himel prices depending on model and customization. Yet everyone agrees: lw delivers on their product. Sure sometimes sizing is wrong. Yes he insists on only aniline due. But every jacket is beautifully mad.

Goodyear makes beautiful jackets. But Jim specifically says that they are made in the vintage manner. Fast and strong. No where does he claim it will be perfect, although they almost always are. In fact he recently sold an imperial and pointed that he felt he has improved the jacket, because he has learned more about making jackets. No arrogance. That’s why these makers don’t inspire the passion himel does. I own 2 himel jackets and I like them. One looks like it was made by a student, the other is much better. But himel claims that his jackets are somehow superior to companies like Schott, aero, Eastman etc. They are not. They may use nicer leather, depends on taste. They may have a nicer pattern, depends on taste. The price is what it is, only the consumer can determine the value to them. But himels insistence that his jackets are better made is the problem, because some people take offense when they can see that they are being manipulated. I’m all for buying a himel jacket, I might buy another. But I’ll buy it because I like the way it looks, not because of his hype

Classic case of over-promise and under-deliver.

Principally, he can do or not do what he wants and on which channels he expresses himself. Whether it's gentlemanly is another question.

I do not think we ever disagreed on this, but I am not sure I see your point here?

 

[58panheadfan]

I started a similar thread a while back, although I originally tried to hide that it was a himel jacket. The problem as I see it is himel’s marketing. For years he bragged about his stiching precision and denigrated other products. Now, when that claim cannot be defended, he starts to post about the macro vs the micro , and claims artisanal variantion as an excuse. It’s like he was selling gourmet food, then when someone points out it tastes bad, he says, the point was nutritional value.

Contrast this to lw or good wear. No one can match Stu for hyperbole or disdain for competitors, and his pricing model is not always appreciated. His jackets can approach himel prices depending on model and customization. Yet everyone agrees: lw delivers on their product. Sure sometimes sizing is wrong. Yes he insists on only aniline due. But every jacket is beautifully mad.

Goodyear makes beautiful jackets. But Jim specifically says that they are made in the vintage manner. Fast and strong. No where does he claim it will be perfect, although they almost always are. In fact he recently sold an imperial and pointed that he felt he has improved the jacket, because he has learned more about making jackets. No arrogance. That’s why these makers don’t inspire the passion himel does. I own 2 himel jackets and I like them. One looks like it was made by a student, the other is much better. But himel claims that his jackets are somehow superior to companies like Schott, aero, Eastman etc. They are not. They may use nicer leather, depends on taste. They may have a nicer pattern, depends on taste. The price is what it is, only the consumer can determine the value to them. But himels insistence that his jackets are better made is the problem, because some people take offense when they can see that they are being manipulated. I’m all for buying a himel jacket, I might buy another. But I’ll buy it because I like the way it looks, not because of his hype

Well written... there is also a big difference between just collecting jackets and making them, so I really like companies which put profit behind customer satisfaction. Unfortunately a rare attitude these days and often associated with high demands on oneself and one's work...

 

[Will Zach]

Some makers let the quality of their jackets and customer service speak for themselves while largely staying in the background. Thedi, Aero, Goodwear, Sheeley, Regius, Field come to mind (yes, I know I mixed bigger and smaller makers here). No puffery, no knocking the competition, no tribalism, just solid work. Himel is not that. You make false claims in your marketing efforts (largely to justify your sky high pricing), expect to get kicked when you trip and handle it badly. Simple as that. And blaming and insulting the customer - well, that is pure, unfounded arrogance. Everyone should decide for themselves if doing business with Himel is worth it to them. Like going to a three star Michelin restaurant known for snooty waiters and $750 dinners. May be worth it to some.

 

[58panheadfan]

Some makers let the quality of their jackets and customer service speak for themselves while largely staying in the background. Thedi, Aero, Goodwear, Sheeley, Regius, Field come to mind (yes, I know I mixed bigger and smaller makers here). No puffery, no knocking the competition, no tribalism, just solid work. Himel is not that. You make false claims in your marketing efforts (largely to justify your sky high pricing), expect to get kicked when you trip and handle it badly. Simple as that. And blaming and insulting the customer - well, that is pure, unfounded arrogance. Everyone should decide for themselves if doing business with Himel is worth it to them. Like going to a three star Michelin restaurant known for snooty waiters and $750 dinners. May be worth it to some.

In general: pride goes before a fall...

 

[Will Zach]

In general: pride goes before a fall...

Well, maybe not always in the social media age... That is why he is trying to create a tribe. This is a very powerful technique. Us against them.

 

[ton312]

For years he bragged about his stiching precision and denigrated other products. Now, when that claim cannot be defended, he starts to post about the macro vs the micro , and claims artisanal variantion as an excuse. It’s like he was selling gourmet food, then when someone points out it tastes bad, he says, the point was nutritional value.

This^^^!!!! And to be fair, it wasn't just the brand propaganda solely spreading this but also members here. And it may well have been true! But if it is... you make sure it always is. If it is not, then it is not and you accept the criticism as legitimate, b/c pictures don't lie and stitching doesn't (absolutely shouldn't) change, move or become otherwise defective and ugly with wear.

Nobody in the thread is defending Damon's jacket as "just fine." We all agree on that. It should be remade or somehow partially refunded, perhaps at the price point of a trainee level jacket. This has happened for members here, we've seen the corrected pieces and they all appear to be made to the acceptable standard. Why is it not happening for Damon? Hurt feelings? Really?

 

[jonbuilder]

Thedi was quick to offer a refund in the case I have seen here. I highly doubt he would have tried to justify such a bad jacket as a "handmade product".

I agree Thedi is running a completely different business model than Dave Himel no comparison. The post I was referring to was a new TFL member posted degrading off-the-wall remarks about the leather Thedi uses. The poster did not know what he was talking about. Some here tried to educate him. One of us attacked him for being a troll. I am not as good at expressing my thoughts in writing as you RD and a lot of others who post here. It is auguring a point to death to prove I am right at the expense of others is what I lashed out at.
I have a one-off Himel jacket I got for a good price on eBay that I am happy with. I have no intention of having Himel make me a jacket because of the cost. I have no business posting to this thread any further

 

[tmitchell59]

Long live the thread.

I don't know what you all (ok, some) have. I find this thread very entertaining. And as long as no one is personally attacked/insulted, I would see no reason to close the thread.
If this is getting to be too much for someone, he can stop reading this thread.

I thought it was entertaining until folks here started bickering with each other.