Five Star Leather Jackets

[Rugby]

Better question is which jacket he hasn’t ordered lol.

I stand corrected

 

[Hobbes1]

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That's the damn truth! Lol

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Canuck Panda, if I may ask, what jacket have you ordered from Johnson?

On paper there would seem to be a lot of similarity between the 5Star and Johnson,
5Star 30s Half Belt / Johnson DEL-66 Half Belt
5Star "Sheene" / Johnson M200-L All purpose dress collar Cafe Racer
5Star Trucker / Johnson slim fit Type III
5Star "CHP" / Johnson Barneveld
5Star XZip / Johnson M500 Bay Area PD Jacket

But in reality, they are quite different.

Johnson patterns are very good, even in stock form. 5Star patterns needs custom measurements, but they are "free".
Johnson sources from all US tanneries, 2oz to 7oz, (Real) American Bison, White Tail Deer, Waipiti Elk, Goat, horsehide...etc. 5Star (used to) offer the 5oz horsehide.

Then there is the obvious price difference. My least expensive Johnson jacket is a 4.75oz goatskin M500 XZip jacket, $675 plus shipping, stock sizing. I don't think Shawn can make me that same jacket. The key obstacles would be the pattern and the aniline goatskin. On the other hand, my latest 5Star "Sheene" with the 2mm horsehide cost $400. There is no way Johnson can make me a M200-L with similar leather for that money.

@Rugby What do you have on order with Johnson?

 

[Hh121]

The major difference is still the pattern, but people from 5star are very very smart, they are learning.
JL has great pattern in terms of mobility, my JL cross zip with no gusset and bi-swing back got better movement than my Vanson enfiled.

 

[Rugby]

On paper there would seem to be a lot of similarity between the 5Star and Johnson,
5Star 30s Half Belt / Johnson DEL-66 Half Belt
5Star "Sheene" / Johnson M200-L All purpose dress collar Cafe Racer
5Star Trucker / Johnson slim fit Type III
5Star "CHP" / Johnson Barneveld
5Star XZip / Johnson M500 Bay Area PD Jacket

But in reality, they are quite different.

Johnson patterns are very good, even in stock form. 5Star patterns needs custom measurements, but they are "free".
Johnson sources from all US tanneries, 2oz to 7oz, (Real) American Bison, White Tail Deer, Waipiti Elk, Goat, horsehide...etc. 5Star (used to) offer the 5oz horsehide.

Then there is the obvious price difference. My least expensive Johnson jacket is a 4.75oz goatskin M500 XZip jacket, $675 plus shipping, stock sizing. I don't think Shawn can make me that same jacket. The key obstacles would be the pattern and the aniline goatskin. On the other hand, my latest 5Star "Sheene" with the 2mm horsehide cost $400. There is no way Johnson can make me a M200-L with similar leather for that money.

@Rugby What do you have on order with Johnson?

I've got a 3.5oz CXL HH car coat for my son, a 4oz+hh M200/highwayman style and I'm looking to order a button down like the aero Maxwell in bison. That's gonna be our stash for the next 12 months. All black color

 

[Damon141]

So the birthing of a flower vase and thermos went well, no complications. Gained about 4 centimeters circumference in mid forearm and cuff. ( I couldn’t close the zipper before )

The first 2 pictures are of when I first received it and now after the stretching.

I also wanted to ask a general fit question. The pit to pit on the 5star is 60cm flat. I’ve been looking at a used jacket with a 59cm pit to pit. The waist will be wider since it is a stock jacket. The jacket will 99% always be worn unzipped

Do you think that will be too tight given what you see here?

 

[TheDonEffect]

I've got a 3.5oz CXL HH car coat for my son, a 4oz+hh M200/highwayman style and I'm looking to order a button down like the aero Maxwell in bison. That's gonna be our stash for the next 12 months. All black color

I got a Maxwell-esque jacket in the pipeline as well. Still haven't finalized which leather yet, which reminds I need to do that...


Back on topic, the patterns and such I think is also personal. Even though the 5* Cossack I got was ultimately unwearable for me due to being too tight and that ridiculous CHL, I could tell the pattern was going to suit me well, and the construction was great with a good amount of attention to detail. The JL patterns also fit well, I think they solved shoulders, mobility for me though wasn't much different, but I have that problem with most fitted stuff I wear.

 

[Rugby]

I got a Maxwell-esque jacket in the pipeline as well. Still haven't finalized which leather yet, which reminds I need to do that...


Back on topic, the patterns and such I think is also personal. Even though the 5* Cossack I got was ultimately unwearable for me due to being too tight and that ridiculous CHL, I could tell the pattern was going to suit me well, and the construction was great with a good amount of attention to detail. The JL patterns also fit well, I think they solved shoulders, mobility for me though wasn't much different, but I have that problem with most fitted stuff I wear.

I'm thinking about a cossack from 5*. But they've been ghosting the hell out of me. I send them three email in the last 10 days, no response. I'm starting to believe they don't want my business. @Canuck Panda, @MrProper and @ton312 are keeping that place afloat.

 

[Canuck Panda]

So the birthing of a flower vase and thermos went well, no complications. Gained about 4 centimeters circumference in mid forearm and cuff. ( I couldn’t close the zipper before )

The first 2 pictures are of when I first received it and now after the stretching.

I also wanted to ask a general fit question. The pit to pit on the 5star is 60cm flat. I’ve been looking at a used jacket with a 59cm pit to pit. The waist will be wider since it is a stock jacket. The jacket will 99% always be worn unzipped

Do you think that will be too tight given what you see here?

First congrats on the sleeve stretch.

About the 59cm P2P. Does it have high or low armholes? Your 5Star has higher armholes so you can get away with smaller P2P. 59cm means less than one inch less in circumference, if it’s also high armholes I don’t see why it can’t work. But keep in mind most vintage patterns will have lower armholes.
What’s the stock jacket?

 

[Canuck Panda]

The major difference is still the pattern, but people from 5star are very very smart, they are learning.

This is very true. Shawn has tweaked the 30s HB pattern, it can fit tighter than the old winter HB from just a year ago, and better movement.

I got a Maxwell-esque jacket in the pipeline as well. Still haven't finalized which leather yet, which reminds I need to do that...

Soft game hides (deer, bison, elk, goat) will drape well for the button jackets. Easy fastening too.
I find that softer leather works better with buttons. Not about thickness, but it’s gotta be soft for the button holes to work

I'm thinking about a cossack from 5*. But they've been ghosting the hell out of me. I send them three email in the last 10 days, no response. I'm starting to believe they don't want my business.

I’ve also experienced the ghosting before. It’s either too many emails or there’s something he doesn’t have for your project. All these years, Shawn has never said no to me, but I’ve also been ghosted before. I’d suggest to give it a little while before nudging him with another email reminder. It takes some time but things usually works out.

4oz+hh M200/highwayman style

This will probably end up to be the only jacket you’ll always reach for.

 

[Rugby]

This is very true. Shawn has tweaked the 30s HB pattern, it can fit tighter than the old winter HB from just a year ago, and better movement.


Soft game hides (deer, bison, elk, goat) will drape well for the button jackets. Easy fastening too.
I find that softer leather works better with buttons. Not about thickness, but it’s gotta be soft for the button holes to work


I’ve also experienced the ghosting before. It’s either too many emails or there’s something he doesn’t have for your project. All these years, Shawn has never said no to me, but I’ve also been ghosted before. I’d suggest to give it a little while before nudging him with another email reminder. It takes some time but things usually works out.


This will probably end up to be the only jacket you’ll always reach for.

Yeah, I'm going for the grab and go jacket.
And, now that you mentioned easy to button, I think I'll change the hide for my son's coat to bison.

 

[navetsea]

So the birthing of a flower vase and thermos went well, no complications. Gained about 4 centimeters circumference in mid forearm and cuff. ( I couldn’t close the zipper before )

The first 2 pictures are of when I first received it and now after the stretching.

I also wanted to ask a general fit question. The pit to pit on the 5star is 60cm flat. I’ve been looking at a used jacket with a 59cm pit to pit. The waist will be wider since it is a stock jacket. The jacket will 99% always be worn unzipped

Do you think that will be too tight given what you see here?

I like that slight drop on the front hem. congrats with the stretch, I think you can go 1 cm smaller p2p, well depending on the lining and leather thickness on your new jacket too, if the leather is much thicker or it has bulkier quilt liner etc then it might be real snug, but if everything else the same I think you can go 1cm smaller. just from that picture alone, I dunno the situation on the back, does it have gusset or not, you can go smaller if the jacket has any kind of functional action back setup.

 

[Damon141]

I like that slight drop on the front hem. congrats with the stretch, I think you can go 1 cm smaller p2p, well depending on the lining and leather thickness on your new jacket too, if the leather is much thicker or it has bulkier quilt liner etc then it might be real snug, but if everything else the same I think you can go 1cm smaller. just from that picture alone, I dunno the situation on the back, does it have gusset or not, you can go smaller if the jacket has any kind of functional action back setup.

Thank you for replying. The jacket in question is the toys McCoy beck 666, which only goes up to a size 44 with a 59 cm pit to pit ratio, it does have a rear shoulder gaskets, it doesn’t appear to have a full action back.

I’m not sure if it’s Shinki horse hide, but it is a 1.3 mm and looks to be a normal rayon satin liner with no padding. I wouldn’t even consider it if I didn’t like the jacket so much. It’s also the only Japanese cafe racer with short body length at that size (25”) most are like 27” with the larger sizes And that doesn’t work with my height 5’10”

 

[MrProper]

I send them three email in the last 10 days, no response.

Email? Try Facebook Messenger. Even there, the replies are not like they used to be, but sooner or later I get a response. I guess business is so good that one person can't easily keep up with taking care of special requests anymore.

About the 59cm P2P. Does it have high or low armholes? Your 5Star has higher armholes so you can get away with smaller P2P.

Just to clarify: you mean at high armholes is greater P2P necessary than at low armholes.
When I measure directly at the armpits, I have more circumference than 3cm lower.
Or do you mean that with high armholes you need less P2P because of the freedom of movement?

I like that slight drop on the front hem.

The front drop I have configured for this model. Today, however, I would either take a two-way zipper, or let the zipper start 4 cm further up. As it is now, it is not a sitting jacket

The jacket in question is the toys McCoy beck 666

Is the model designed for westerners?
Tbh... your stature doesn't really seem Asian to me. I think with Asians these jackets on Instagram often look pretty cool, but less so with us westerners.
So what does your 60 cm feel like now? When you lift your arms off to the side, is there still air between the lattisimus and the jacket or is it already on? For me, everything fits between 58 and 61 cm. I have 58 cm, which feels wider than other 60 cm jacket.
So it could work for you.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Just to clarify: you mean at high armholes is greater P2P necessary than at low armholes.
When I measure directly at the armpits, I have more circumference than 3cm lower.
Or do you mean that with high armholes you need less P2P because of the freedom of movement?

High arm hole = smaller P2P
Low arm hole = bigger P2P

The GW on the left has low armhole and 23.5” P2P, the 5Star on the right has high armhole and 22.5” P2P.
Low armhole is easier to get in and out of, and has better forward reach. High armhole looks nicer feels light but the armpit pushes in when the arms are reached forward.
I copied the photo from this site:
https://hourglassy.com/2012/05/large-busts-and-blazers-how-fitted-do-you-really-want-them/

So if the McCoy Beck 666 has high armholes like Damons conic 5star then it should fit fine at the chest even a cm smaller. But unfortunately the waist will still bag out as that jacket has almost no drop like his first Himel, from photo. I’m not sure what’s the measurement in real life.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Yeah, I'm going for the grab and go jacket.
And, now that you mentioned easy to button, I think I'll change the hide for my son's coat to bison.

If it’s Horween Vermont HH then it will work very well with buttons. CXL No.
Bison is usually 5oz +, but the button holer machine max out about 3.5oz. Talk to the guys at Johnson and see what they say. I changed my 5oz trucker to snaps because of the button holer limitation. Anything is possible but I didn’t wanna risk it.

 

[MrProper]

High arm hole = smaller P2P
Low arm hole = bigger P2P
View attachment 416776
The GW on the left has low armhole and 23.5” P2P, the 5Star on the right has high armhole and 22.5” P2P.
Low armhole is easier to get in and out of, and has better forward reach. High armhole looks nicer feels light but the armpit pushes in when the arms are reached forward.
I copied the photo from this site:
https://hourglassy.com/2012/05/large-busts-and-blazers-how-fitted-do-you-really-want-them/

So if the McCoy Beck 666 has high armholes like Damons conic 5star then it should fit fine at the chest even a cm smaller. But unfortunately the waist will still bag out as that jacket has almost no drop like his first Himel, from photo. I’m not sure what’s the measurement in real life.

Strange. For me it's the other way around. The higher the armholes, the more P2P I need. The lower the armholes, the less P2P is needed.
Which is logical from my measurements, though. A V-shape has more circumference at the upper part of the V than at the middle part.
From the freedom of movement, however, I agree with you that a deep armhole may still need more P2P, because the jacket must also move more with each arm movement.
However, I'm assuming really deep armholes, which are more likely to be found in 80s/90s jackets.

 

[Marc mndt]

Strange. For me it's the other way around. The higher the armholes, the more P2P I need. The lower the armholes, the less P2P is needed.

+1
Holds the same for me.

 

[Damon141]

Just to clarify: you mean at high armholes is greater P2P necessary than at low armholes.
When I measure directly at the armpits, I have more circumference than 3cm lower.
Or do you mean that with high armholes you need less P2P because of the freedom of movement?

The front drop I have configured for this model. Today, however, I would either take a two-way zipper, or let the zipper start 4 cm further up. As it is now, it is not a sitting jacket

Is the model designed for westerners?
Tbh... your stature doesn't really seem Asian to me. I think with Asians these jackets on Instagram often look pretty cool, but less so with us westerners.
So what does your 60 cm feel like now? When you lift your arms off to the side, is there still air between the lattisimus and the jacket or is it already on? For me, everything fits between 58 and 61 cm. I have 58 cm, which feels wider than other 60 cm jacket.
So it could work for you.

I understand completely because more of your back muscles will be included if the p2p is higher.
I am not sure if it has high arm holes but sleeve diameter seems large for Japanese models. Maybe You might be able to tell if they look higher.

I just appreciate the attention to details like like French seams along the arms and where the kidney panel attaches really just makes in love with it. I’m wont buy without proper research. But as far as J100 sizes run, this is the only model I know which isn’t really long in the body for the larger size I require.
I would have to alter the sleeves because you see how my sleeves fit on my 5star @ 61 cm and 49cm shoulder.
The beck has 51cm shoulder and 66cm sleeves.
● Product name: TMJ1728 Toys McCoy
● Materials : Horsehide
● Tanning: Vegetable Burgrome combination
● Finish: Pigment
● Zipper: TALON

● 36S size: Shoulder width 43, Sleeve length 62, Length 60, Width 51
● 38M size: Shoulder width 45, Sleeve length 63・ Length 61 ・ Width 53
● 40L size: Shoulder width 47 ・ Sleeve length 64 ・ Length 62 ・ Width 55
● 42XL size: Shoulder width 49 ・ Sleeve length 65 ・ Length 63 ・ Width 57
● 44XXL size: Shoulder width 51 cm・ Sleeve length 66 cm・ Length 64 ・ P2P Width 59 cm, hem is 55cm

● Wearing model
Height 168 cm Weight 60 kg
We are wearing 36S size in a normal system.

 

[MrProper]

I understand completely because more of your back muscles will be included if the p2p is higher.
I am not sure if it has high arm holes but sleeve diameter seems large for Japanese models. Maybe You might be able to tell if they look higher.

I just appreciate the attention to details like like French seams along the arms and where the kidney panel attaches really just makes in love with it. I’m wont buy without proper research. But as far as J100 sizes run, this is the only model I know which isn’t really long in the body for the larger size I require.
I would have to alter the sleeves because you see how my sleeves fit on my 5star @ 61 cm and 49cm shoulder.
The beck has 51cm shoulder and 66cm sleeves.
● Product name: TMJ1728 Toys McCoy
● Materials : Horsehide
● Tanning: Vegetable Burgrome combination
● Finish: Pigment
● Zipper: TALON

● 36S size: Shoulder width 43, Sleeve length 62, Length 60, Width 51
● 38M size: Shoulder width 45, Sleeve length 63・ Length 61 ・ Width 53
● 40L size: Shoulder width 47 ・ Sleeve length 64 ・ Length 62 ・ Width 55
● 42XL size: Shoulder width 49 ・ Sleeve length 65 ・ Length 63 ・ Width 57
● 44XXL size: Shoulder width 51 cm・ Sleeve length 66 cm・ Length 64 ・ P2P Width 59 cm, hem is 55cm

● Wearing model
Height 168 cm Weight 60 kg
We are wearing 36S size in a normal system.

If you've fallen in love with this jacket, then I guess you'll have to give it a try.
Could you return it if it doesn't fit as expected?
From the upper arms it seems wide enough, the shoulders might be a tad too wide and the waistband would be way too wide for me.