Fear of the feminine

[Rosie]

Most recently I had a woman practically attack me while I was at the school. She said I was weird for wearing dresses & people wouldnt talk to me because of it. She went on & on. It was absolutely bizarre. I decided I dont care if I make women feel inadequate in their sweats. They make the choice to wear sweats & baseball caps. I hate to sound rude but it's not like I'm wearing a tutu or something completely out of place. [huh]

Wow!, that is soooo rude! How dare she say such a thing to you.

I've gotten that "Why do you wear dresses and skirts all of the time?" thing. I don't understand it either, like you said, it isn't as though I'm wearing some sort of obscure piece of clothing.

Another thing that I've gotten was backlash from men thinking I was too "prissy" or "stuck up" because I dress up when I am asked out on a date. My cousin even has told me on many occassions to "dress down" as to not make a date feel uncomfortable. [huh]

 

[imoldfashioned]

This is an interesting question with many facets. The first of which might be “what is femininity”? I would define it as embracing those things that make you a woman, whether physically or whatever our society has deemed feminine through gender definitions. I think there is a fear of the feminine, both by women who fear they’ll be seen as repudiating feminism if they act in a “traditionally feminine” way and by men who fear women’s reactions if they treat a woman as a lady. As for me, I’ve found feminism and femininity can co-exist in my life.

For instance, I’ve always liked dressing in a feminine manner, especially “the vintage look” that emphasizes a woman’s figure—chastely at work, less so when the occasion calls for it. Dresses and skirts are my mainstay (I don’t think I’ve owned a pair of pants since Reagan was in office). Ironically, this has drawn comments from many women who are bewildered at my choices since pants are seen to be so much easier to wear; not something I agree with, obviously.

I’ve noticed the effects of femininity most at my workplace, the headquarters for a very large company where most of the women are not overly feminine in dress or personality. Matt Deckard noted “Dirty clothes and ratty hair, or white dress and a flower in the hair, I will still open the door and offer my seat”; spoken like a true gentleman and I wish more men felt the same. It isn’t fair, but I do notice that men—particularly older men--often treat me with more courtesy; doors are held, I’m waved into elevators first, men will switch which side they are walking on so that they are nearest the traffic, etc.

However, I think I get this treatment where others might not less because of what I wear and more because I feel comfortable with men treating me politely and I think I must telegraph this somehow. I know I always smile and thank them for their actions. Just as femininity and sexiness can be confused I think some women fear or confuse masculine politeness with a man being overbearing or controlling. In both cases I think it is pretty easy to identify which is which. Also, I don’t see courtesy as demeaning; I know I’m perfectly capable of opening a door or avoiding traffic myself. When a man is acting out of politeness I feel cared for rather than threatened as I might if I perceive someone is trying to control me.

For me, being treated with a certain amount of deference by a man is part of why I enjoy being a woman.

 

[magneto]

{{SNIP excellent post}}
...
Also, I don’t see courtesy as demeaning; I know I’m perfectly capable of opening a door or avoiding traffic myself. When a man is acting out of politeness I feel cared for rather than threatened as I might if I perceive someone is trying to control me.
...

Exactly, and well said! I always feel so bad for a fellow, when he tentatively gives you a compliment or does some courteous thing and then looks relieved after you smile at him and say thank you...as though he had been steeling himself to probably expect a rebuff or dismissive comment from some "threatened" feeling female instead.

 

[imoldfashioned]

I always feel so bad for a fellow, when he tentatively gives you a compliment or does some courteous thing and then looks relieved after you smile at him and say thank you...as though he had been steeling himself to probably expect a rebuff or dismissive comment from some "threatened" feeling female instead.

I so agree with you Magneto. I've seen situations where a woman has taken some poor guy's head off for common courtesy and I've just inwardly cringed for him. Sometimes I feel like nobody knows what's expected or acceptable anymore socially--it can be very frustrating.

 

[katiemakeup]

I love seeing women (and men for that matter) dressed up in beautiful vintage clothing- like human works of art!

 

[Sachet]

I so agree with you Magneto. I've seen situations where a woman has taken some poor guy's head off for common courtesy and I've just inwardly cringed for him. Sometimes I feel like nobody knows what's expected or acceptable anymore socially--it can be very frustrating.

It can be! I have friends whom I love and adore, but they have gently harassed me for not opening a door for a man when we arrive at the same time. (!?!) And for suggesting that in some situations (say jury duty or a business appointment) that it might behoove them to wear a dress. They don't seem to realize that there are subtle and/or blatant psychological messages that we send in how we dress and act.

Yes, I totally agree with the common sense and fair point of equal pay for the same job etc., be ye male or female. But to miss out on celebrating the small nuances in life that help define our delicious differences is a sad oversight.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I so agree with you Magneto. I've seen situations where a woman has taken some poor guy's head off for common courtesy and I've just inwardly cringed for him. Sometimes I feel like nobody knows what's expected or acceptable anymore socially--it can be very frustrating.

So what we end up with is a society where people just avoid the dilemma entirely by simply ignoring everyone around them --- plug in the Ipod earphones, put on the dark glasses, never make eye contact with anyone else, and you don't have to worry about outmoded nonsense like common courtesy.

Nertz to that.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to hold a door for me, help me with a clumsy package, offer me a seat on the bus, or simply smile and say "Good Morning" when I walk past on the sidewalk is more than welcome to do so, and I promise -- Girl Scout's Honor -- that I will not feel diminished, demeaned, or oppressed in any way.

And maybe someday I can even return the favor.

 

[skinnychik]

I really don't feel like I'm doing Women's Lib a disservice by allowing someone to hold a door for me, or for training my guy to open my car door. It's just respectful. Who can complain about respect?

Along the same lines, isn't is the opposite of liberation if I RESTRICT my attire to those items which are gender neutral?

Besides, I feel more powerful when I dress like a woman because it makes me stand out. Adding 2 1/2" of heel doesn't hurt either.

 

[mysterygal]

being dressed up does make you feel like a woman! I love to be fussed over and taken care of, yet, the responsibilities I have as a mother makes me no less important or valuable than my husband

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

being dressed up does make you feel like a woman! I love to be fussed over and taken care of, yet, the responsibilities I have as a mother makes me no less important or valuable than my husband

Being a parent is the most important job one could have, in my opinion. What could matter more than raising your children to be happy, caring and productive members of society?
"Motherhood: the second oldest profession"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

"Motherhood: the second oldest profession"

There was (and in some parts of the world, still is) a time when making babies was seen by men as a way to prove their masculinity. Making babies also provided more workers for the family, and more caretakers for the aged parents. With infant mortality being so high, women were "encouraged" to become pregnant again ... and again ... and again, until they finally died of exhaustion, hemorrhaging, and/or infections. It wasn't until the 19th century that the more industrialized countries began to celebrate motherhood as a joy and not a burden.

.

 

[jasmynskyes]

Hi, I'm new to the board and I've read all the comments on this thread and thought I'd stick my nose in and say what's on my mind. I think we are a bit afraid of the feminine. I think that years of being told that being feminine and acting that way are signs of weakness have helped feed that fear. We deride men for any sign of femininity and are quick to ridicule for it so it would make sense that it wouldn't be respected in women either. We, as a society, have also been told that certain feminine behaviors are dangerous as it can get us "taken advantage of" and it would be our fault because we asked for it in some way. For many people who grew up with that message, it may seem, to them, that it would be best to blend in. To not draw attention themselves. Also, it would seem, that diversity is not as respected or celebrated as we like to claim as illustrated by how much effort is put in to look like everyone else. For me personally, I'm feminine and I have no fears or illusions about it. I love dressing up and looking like a lady. I appreciate having doors held for me and like, but I'm just as willing to open a door for someone else because I want to be treated equal, so I have to treat people equally.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The only feminine I fear is a black widow spider.

.

 

[Lincsong]

Every little breeze seems to whisper Louise.

I fear that loud mouthed, obnoxious ethnic with the rolling pin and hair curlers.

 

[cadence]

Are they afraid of looking feminine, or is it something else?

It depends on the woman why they prefer to look less feminine. For example, in the workplace, some women may believe that they will not be taken seriously enough if they wore a dress, high heels and makeup. Times have changed, but in some areas, not much. Even now, some women are being blamed for sexual harassment because of the way they dress and so 'dress down' or 'look less feminine' to avoid unwanted attention from the opposite sex. Also some women don't feel attractive and believe that there is no point in even trying to look good. Like I said, it depends on the woman!!

 

[Matt Deckard]

I was thinking about this again the other day when watching a little exerpt from Tomb Raider. Angelina replaces her femenine strength with masculine.

I started a thread here a while back talking about there being no more women in films. They are either girls or masculinized girls. Maybe not no women, though very few women the likes of Kate Hepburn or Betty Davis. That's why we keep looking at them and asking "where are they?", the real women of film?

I can't see Angelina wielding her womanly ways to over power a man the way Dianna Rigg could trump Patrick Macnee in episodes of The Avengers. That was true femenine power. She could kick ass with the rest of the crew though you knew she was woman through and through.

 

[ohairas]

For me this has much to do with self confidence. I have always enjoyed dressing up, but when I started to gain weight after highschool, I felt like "what's the point in taking the time, I'm fat and ugly no matter what". I would wear sweats and no makeup and totally looked like a fat slob! That was the first time I was fat.. then I lost over 60 pounds. Got my confidence back, and took more pride in myself and time FOR myself.

When I got pregnant and fat again, I had a different outlook. I loved being pregnant, and I did my hair and makeup. Somehow, I didn't *feel* or seem as fat this time around, even tho I had gained over 70lbs. I guess I was older and wiser, and embraced my femininity and how motherhood made me feel. It really made a difference in the way I presented myself.

Since obesity is at an all time high, I would think that would have a lot to do with women not taking more time for themselves. And since casual dress is just SO socially accepted, (sweats and such), it's just become a vicious cycle. Mothers who wear sweats probably rear daughters who have no desire to dress up. Teens won't know how to dress up or do their hair other than flat iron...

I wonder tho.. the 70's were so casual and everyone wanted straight hair. But the 80s and 90s brought in big curly hair and vintage inspired dresses. Now all that seems to be coming back, so I'm crossing my fingers it will *stick*.. but not holding my breath.

Nikki

 

[Lady Day]

Maybe not no women, though very few women the likes of Kate Hepburn or Betty Davis. That's why we keep looking at them and asking "where are they?", the real women of film?

I think there are a lot more real women in film, and that is a reason why you dont get the over feminized version that was generally portrayed in earlier films. Movies with a lot of women today focus on them being women in the world. Be it working mothers, working class, or trying to make a better life. To me that is a real woman.

The over feminine version of womanhood that you mention is lacking in modern movies generally because a lot of those ladies played characters that were women of town, women of leisure, and did not have anything else to worry about but being 'women'. In modern movies I think you get a more realistic version of what it is to be a women, even if the period of the movie is from the past.


LD

 

[Matt Deckard]

When you watch a movie today and you see a man in a situation where he's driving the car and the kid in the back is yelling, he's on the phone and the kid next to hom is complaining... it's a dilemna in the script.

You have the same situation for a woman in a script and rather than that being the plot to the story, it's just background.

Anyway...

 

[pretty faythe]

What I think it is basically is a rut. I've worked in construction for a while and got used to looking vaugely ()sp) like a guy, to the point that at one time I was called mister at work until I turned around, granted it was 20 someting degrees with the wind chill and up on the twenty someting floor with no walls. While I was doing my apprenticeship to I didnt deviate from the tradtional look, hair in pony tail under hard hat, work jeans, t-shirts, male work boots (really you'd think they'd make more womans boots).
Basically that's the same look I'd have when I was off work also, except for nice jeans, t-shirts and mascarra or another small touch.

Three years ago when I was in the last year of my apprenticeship is when I started doing small things to get my feminine side back. Started getting my nails done, even though the guys would make fun of me I let them know I was a girl and allowed to have girlly traits, thank you very much. Since I finished the apprenticeship and stopped doing construction as much and been working in the convention side of the IBEW I've started doing more femine things that I would have been laughed at or been considered wrong at a construction site.

Go to work with hair done (more vintage as of late), make up, a little more fem clothes, although not too much, its still hard work and would get in the way.