What has happened to society?

[pigeon toe]

Most of us know from experience that clothes do not make the man or woman.

I wholly agree, and it makes me sad that some people don't see it that way.

On the subject of shops being closed on Sunday, that's the way it is here in Utrecht, and it's deathly boring! lol Sunday is my day of napping because of it.

On another note, I feel a lot of what I disagree with in this thread may have to do with generational differences. I'm 20 and did most of my growing up in the 90's and early 2000's, which much of you cite as having horrible mainstream fashions (spot on), but also questionable morals/values. I don't see it that way at all. Perhaps this is because I have grown up with the casualness of society, swearing and sexuality on TV, etc. But the basics, that we can ALL agree on, politeness, friendliness, respect for your elders, are values instilled in myself and most of my peers. Us youngins ain't so bad!

 

[Feraud]

Wow!

Enlightening aren't I?

 

[Haversack]

Feraud wrote: "Most of us know from experience that clothes do not make the man or woman."

Yet they can influence the attitude and behavior of those around the wearer towards the wearer for good or ill. They are not mute.

Haversack.

 

[Martinis at 8]

I have never seen nor read any evidence to suggest society today in terms of morals and values is much (much being a subjective word) different from the past...

I don't agree with this guy much, but this is one of the few times. Think about it. The Seven Deadly Sins have been with us from the beginning. How we camouflage our proclivities throughout time does not change our basic human character.

More important, anyone giving/taking odds on this thread getting locked?

 

[pigeon toe]

Feraud wrote: "Most of us know from experience that clothes do not make the man or woman."

Yet they can influence the attitude and behavior of those around the wearer towards the wearer for good or ill. They are not mute.

Haversack.

True. And I also agree that certain events (funerals, weddings, nice restaurants, etc.) require a "dress code" of sorts. I just think people need to recognize that not everyone has access to the same quality of clothing that many of us regard as "nice". Someone who doesn't have much money might wear something some people would look down upon to a wedding, but it's, for his/her income level, a fancy outfit.

 

[surely]

I don't agree with this guy much, but this is one of the few times. Think about it. The Seven Deadly Sins have been with us from the beginning. How we camouflage our proclivities throughout time does not change our basic human character.

More important, anyone giving/taking odds on this thread getting locked?

I would give odds, but then you probably would post a political flame to ensure its closure.lol

 

[Feraud]

Yet they can influence the attitude and behavior of those around the wearer towards the wearer for good or ill. They are not mute.

I can see where you are going with this line of thought and mostly agree. What I fail to see is how clothing would change our morals when everyone wears similar outfits. If clothing has improved or degraded society I am not convinced of it.
If only there was a 1940s version of Cops. That would have been an eye opener. Watch the well dressed man abuse his spouse, drive drunk, and try to evade John Law.

We should also bear in mind the original post was comparing society to old movies. Films (new and old) rarely accurately reflect society. Film stories may be influenced by circumstances but are generally entertainment/money making ventures.
Unless we are talking documentaries and even those can be skewed.

 

[Martinis at 8]

I would take odds, but then you probably would post a political flame to ensure its closure.lol

Nope. And for the record I have never made a political statement on this forum.

 

[Martinis at 8]

...And I also agree that certain events (funerals, weddings, nice restaurants, etc.) require a "dress code" of sorts...

Well gosh! :eusa_doh: I remember getting yelled at here for saying someone should not wear flip-flops to a funeral.

 

[Jovan]

On another note, I feel a lot of what I disagree with in this thread may have to do with generational differences. I'm 20 and did most of my growing up in the 90's and early 2000's, which much of you cite as having horrible mainstream fashions (spot on), but also questionable morals/values. I don't see it that way at all. Perhaps this is because I have grown up with the casualness of society, swearing and sexuality on TV, etc. But the basics, that we can ALL agree on, politeness, friendliness, respect for your elders, are values instilled in myself and most of my peers. Us youngins ain't so bad!

Here, here. And I've known some young people who, despite dressing well according to an occasion, can be extremely rude.

True. And I also agree that certain events (funerals, weddings, nice restaurants, etc.) require a "dress code" of sorts. I just think people need to recognize that not everyone has access to the same quality of clothing that many of us regard as "nice". Someone who doesn't have much money might wear something some people would look down upon to a wedding, but it's, for his/her income level, a fancy outfit.

:eusa_clap

The thing I appreciated when I was at a funeral last year was that some people were at least TRYING... a plaid shirt tucked into khakis, etc. That didn't bother me as much as the people who were very obviously middle class (both the parents AND their kids!) dressing in jeans/cargo shorts and a t-shirt. I found that extremely disrespectful.

 

[Haversack]

Feraud wrote: "If only there was a 1940s version of Cops. That would have been an eye opener. Watch the well dressed man abuse his spouse, drive drunk, and try to evade John Law."

Why you just described the opening 10 minutes of a late 1940s Film Noir!

Haversack.

 

[Foofoogal]

Us youngins ain't so bad!

I am not saying youngins are all so bad. I am not kidding when I say I have at least 46 nieces and nephews.
Not picking on him and he would understand if he saw this but one of my nephews who shows the most respect to me is my nephew the tattoo artist. I love young people and know many who are very respectful.

There are a few though who are spoiled brats with zip manners.
As God is my witness last year I saw the single most disrespectful thing in my life. A young thug (not my family but someone they knew) at a funeral I went to was actually drinking a coke as the audience or whatever you call people at funerals are called when they were led out the door at the end.
I think I aged 10 years that day just seeing that.

 

[Feraud]

Feraud wrote: "If only there was a 1940s version of Cops. That would have been an eye opener. Watch the well dressed man abuse his spouse, drive drunk, and try to evade John Law."

Why you just described the opening 10 minutes of a late 1940s Film Noir!

Haversack.

Should I admit in this discussion I love noir?
What does that say about me? lol

 

[Feraud]

Wow! I can just speak from the decline I see in morals in my own extended family but yes they are certainly different.

But certainly not due to the clothes they are wearing. Agreed?

 

[Haversack]

Martinis at 8 wrote: "The Seven Deadly Sins have been with us from the beginning. How we camouflage our proclivities throughout time does not change our basic human character."

True. There is little that is new under the sun in the realm of human behavior. But I would say that the expression of the Seven Deadlies within a culture is not a steady state. I think that each one has a mean and an ebb and flow independant of each other. Rather, I think this ebb and flow depends on a host of other factors which affect how acceptable each of the Seven Deadlies is within a given culture at a particular time. For example, the 1980s is often cited as being the Decade of Greed. I know from experience that the 1970s were a lot more publically permissive in matters sexual than those that followed. (Would you believe full-frontal nudity on prime-time broadcast television in the USA?). Right now it seems that Anger and Pride are both in favour.

One could probably do an similar tracking of the Seven Splendids as well. Imagine a monitoring panel which is a cross between Jules Verne and orginal Star Trek. Seperate bar graphs rising and falling. Deadlies on one line in one colour, Splendids on another line in a different colour. And seperate gauges each registering the height of hemlines, lapel widths, and armhole heights. Maybe we _can_ find the correlation between clothing and social behavior!

Haversack.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Perhaps this is because I have grown up with the casualness of society, swearing and sexuality on TV, etc. But the basics, that we can ALL agree on, politeness, friendliness, respect for your elders, are values instilled in myself and most of my peers. Us youngins ain't so bad!

I'll second that. The kids who work at the theatre with me are, each and every one of them, a respectful, polite, clean-cut and hardworking lot, and how they dress off duty is none of my business. But when they come in to work, they know what I expect of them and how they're to be dressed, and how they're to treat the patrons, and they do it -- without any backtalk, because they know it's the right and appropriate thing to do.

Of course, I hand picked them for those qualities -- I see plenty of kids come in who I wouldnt recommend for a job with my worst enemy. Class shows -- in every generation.

 

[Foofoogal]

But certainly not due to the clothes they are wearing. Agreed?

To a degree mostly yes but to a limit no. I don't want to see my nieces thong and I don't know of one guy in my family that would go without a shirt in public except at the beach. Though some may wear baggy pants I think they would find it hard to come around the rest of the whole family if a guy if the pants were down way low.
This is what I mean when I suggest how low do we go. I believe the pendulum swings one way and then naturally corrects itself. Time to go the other way is all I am suggesting.
Sounds harsh but alot of any of the problems in my own extended family is when others bring their ways in. A whole nother topic indeed.

 

[Lulu-in-Ny]

This blue law business is still in effect in much of the heartland. If a store that sell liquor, for example is open on Sunday to sell other foodstuff, the liquor aisle is roped off. Many counties and parrishes of various states are dry completely. Some sell packaged liquor but not liquor by the drink. It gets complicated fast.

It's funny; I grew up in Central New Jersey, and there is one county- Bergen- that still has blue laws. They allow absolutely no commerce on Sundays, with the exception of Gas Stations and Pharmacies. The Manager of the Barnes and Noble there informed me that on Saturday nights, they had to have everyone punched out by 11:59, or they would be in violation of the Blue Laws. When I asked why, the answer I got was not the one I expected- the repealing of the Blue Laws got voted down every year because of the traffic in Paramus. Sunday is the only day the residents of Paramus have any peace from the insane amount of Mall shoppers, and they're keeping it that way. I'd be curious if some of the other places that still have the Blues have them, at least partially, for that reason.

 

[Lulu-in-Ny]

I'm in agreement with Feraud. Clothes absolutely do NOT make the man; at best, they make in impression of the man, an illusion. After that, it's up to the individual to present themselves and, hopefully, live up to that impression.
To paraphrase Mammy- you can give yourself airs and get all fixed up like a racehorse, but a mule in a horse harness is still a mule...

 

[Lincsong]

This thread is building fast. Anyone taking/giving odds on its closure

I'm surprised it's still open.