What has happened to society?

[TheKitschGoth]

I just meant that the Bible which is my religion says to honor your mother and father which comes with a promise of long life if you do.
It doesn't say only if they are nice or angels. I would think this would apply to grandparents as well.
As I truly want to live to be 109 I take it quite literally though all of my parents and grandparents are now gone.

So the child abused by its parents, just because? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you condone that in any way. But saying something so definite doesn't take into account the many shades of grey.

It's things like this that make me hate the whole "respect your elders" thing.

And when I say people have to earn my respect I do not mean that I would treat people with disrespect till they proved themselves. It's not that black and white, I treat all people with courtesy until they prove themselves either way. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I like that this is the new attitude.

I don't honestly believe society has declined, just changed.

 

[Twitch]

Of course religion has something to do with this. It's as simple as "do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Now you can extrapolate the religion and call it karma but eith way it will bite you in the azz if you don't abide by it. It may be later than sooner but it will happen.

If you wish to be treated with respect than you in turn must deal with others in a respectful way.

Geez, John Lennon alluded to it when he said, "We can have it right now. Think about it." He meant world peace but nothing in the world does not begin with one humble belief, thought or action.

If people go out and treat one another decently the pendulum would swing away from the greed, loathing and egotistical direction to the more genteel.
Society will change. Rest assured it always does as trends, values, mores and beliefs resurge to previous eras in mankind's history.

So it's up to us. Do we wish to open up and be honest with others or continue to alienate them with things like internet friction?

 

[Foofoogal]

I have not been avoiding the question but thinking about it.
I understand completely where you are coming from.
I am alot older than you and only state that as a point that I have seen many strange things including knowing people who had horrible parents.
Life has many twists and turns and I have seen these said people end up not only taking care of said parents when they got old and/or sick but somehow healing took place for all said in mind, spirit, body and soul.
Noone is born on this earth and thinks " I think I will grow up to be nasty or mean or an abuser." I am not saying in any way, shape or form that this is ok.
Someone once told me to never burn your bridges as you will never know if you will need to walk over them again.
Life is like a dandelion flower. Handle with care.

 

[ShortClara]

As far as I am concerned, every human being deserves respect because they are hum an beings. I don't treat people with disrespect just because they don't treat me or others well. I am not give them any particular undesved special consideration. But often, the lest of us is the one that needs a little respect the most.

I didn't say anything about disrespecting people. I do believe I said I try to treat all with kindness. I think you and I attach different meanings to the word respect.

 

[ShortClara]

ShortClara, have you read Gurdjieff? He fits nicely with Rand.

No, I've never even heard of him. Thanks!

 

[LizzieMaine]

I didn't say anything about disrespecting people. I do believe I said I try to treat all with kindness. I think you and I attach different meanings to the word respect.

From reading over these recent comments, the definition of "respect" seems to be something that really does vary depending, especially, on the generation of the person who's defining it. I would hazard a guess that for anyone over 40 or so, "respect" is often used in the sense of "treating someone with general courtesy or, in the case of an authority figure, acknowledging the authority of their position." It does *not* imply either reverence or abject deference.

I get the sense that the modern street-influenced meaning of the word is very different, but I'll defer to someone younger than me to explain it.

 

[ShortClara]

From reading over these recent comments, the definition of "respect" seems to be something that really does vary depending, especially, on the generation of the person who's defining it. I would hazard a guess that for anyone over 40 or so, "respect" is often used in the sense of "treating someone with general courtesy or, in the case of an authority figure, acknowledging the authority of their position." It does *not* imply either reverence or abject deference.

I get the sense that the modern street-influenced meaning of the word is very different, but I'll defer to someone younger than me to explain it.

I think that might very well be it. Although my personal definition is strongly influenced by Rand and her philosophy, objectivism. To me, respecting someone is a very high and valued feeling, as I have gotten to know them, like them, admire them, and highly value them as people. For example, I wouldn't say I respect the opinion of just anyone; I only would truly respect the opinion of someone whom I know and have evaluated as being a good, moral person with sense. Does that make sense?

 

[CharlesB]

I think that might very well be it. Although my personal definition is strongly influenced by Rand and her philosophy, objectivism. To me, respecting someone is a very high and valued feeling, as I have gotten to know them, like them, admire them, and highly value them as people. For example, I wouldn't say I respect the opinion of just anyone; I only would truly respect the opinion of someone whom I know and have evaluated as being a good, moral person with sense. Does that make sense?

Spot on my dear

 

[LizzieMaine]

See, that's the kind of understanding that we need to have for these kinds of discussions to make any sense. The definition of "respect" I was raised with -- and again, which was common for most people my age -- was much simpler and much less philosophically bounded. It was simply a recognition of the dignity of the other person -- you didn't need to have any idea of the other person's beliefs, actions, or character to hold the door for them or offer them your seat on the bus, or say "please" or "thank you" or "sir" or "ma'am." It was just *respect*, and everyone was assumed to be entitled to it as a matter of default. It's the same thing that others in this thread have referred to as "courtesy."

In the case of respect for an authority figure, it was an acknowledgement of that authority, regardless of the particular qualities of the person holding it. I couldn't stand my first grade teacher, but I was expected to *respect* her, not because she was someone I liked or admired or even especially appreciated, and not even because I could count on getting cracked across the knuckles with a ruler if I didn't, but because she represented the authority of the school. Same thing with parents or crossing guards or scout leaders, or policemen, or the Governor -- it's not the person necessarily, but the authority that you're acknowledging.

It may sound simplistic and without the sort of nuance that kids today expect, but it's how a lot of us here were raised -- like it or not, that's how it was, and a lot of us are still influenced by that upbringing when we hear the word "respect." So please take that into account when we start going on about it!

 

[reetpleat]

From reading over these recent comments, the definition of "respect" seems to be something that really does vary depending, especially, on the generation of the person who's defining it. I would hazard a guess that for anyone over 40 or so, "respect" is often used in the sense of "treating someone with general courtesy or, in the case of an authority figure, acknowledging the authority of their position." It does *not* imply either reverence or abject deference.

I get the sense that the modern street-influenced meaning of the word is very different, but I'll defer to someone younger than me to explain it.

I agree that of course respect can mean different things. I would suggest it is the difference between common respect, and the respect of thinking highly of someone, or high regard.

But I would suggest that we might be a little too hard on people. I believe that we are all doing the best we can, and there are many people who might not seem it, but who are doing their damnest, even if it is n0t so good by our standards. I think even those peole desreve a bit of high regard. maybe they would even rse to the occasion. Sure, tehre are murderers and drug adicts, but i think people who are operationg on that level must have had some terrible things happen to them or are even not sane. Not that we just excuse it, but we can forgive it, and treat them as we need to to protect society.

There but for the grace of god go I. Not alwasy what I live up to but it is a buidign principle.

 

[reetpleat]

See, that's the kind of understanding that we need to have for these kinds of discussions to make any sense. The definition of "respect" I was raised with -- and again, which was common for most people my age -- was much simpler and much less philosophically bounded. It was simply a recognition of the dignity of the other person -- you didn't need to have any idea of the other person's beliefs, actions, or character to hold the door for them or offer them your seat on the bus, or say "please" or "thank you" or "sir" or "ma'am." It was just *respect*, and everyone was assumed to be entitled to it as a matter of default. It's the same thing that others in this thread have referred to as "courtesy."

In the case of respect for an authority figure, it was an acknowledgement of that authority, regardless of the particular qualities of the person holding it. I couldn't stand my first grade teacher, but I was expected to *respect* her, not because she was someone I liked or admired or even especially appreciated, and not even because I could count on getting cracked across the knuckles with a ruler if I didn't, but because she represented the authority of the school. Same thing with parents or crossing guards or scout leaders, or policemen, or the Governor -- it's not the person necessarily, but the authority that you're acknowledging.

It may sound simplistic and without the sort of nuance that kids today expect, but it's how a lot of us here were raised -- like it or not, that's how it was, and a lot of us are still influenced by that upbringing when we hear the word "respect." So please take that into account when we start going on about it!

Interesting thought that comes up. People today bemoan the lack of respect for authority, the president for example. Since the sixties and seventies, with vietnam, and Nixon as prime examples, people came to question and distrust the government and authority.
The result is we have lost respect for authority, but often that respect is not deserved due to corruption, etc.

So, the question is, was that a good thing or a bad thing. I throw that out as a rhetorical question. I do not offer here or ask for an actual answer as that might bring up too much political discussion. My point is that our questioning of authority and traditional ways of behaving (our whole thread) hasresulted in some loss and some gain to our society.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Interesting thought that comes up. People today bemoan the lack of respect for authority, the president for example. Since the sixties and seventies, with vietnam, and Nixon as prime examples, people came to question and distrust the government and authority.
The result is we have lost respect for authority, but often that respect is not deserved due to corruption, etc.

So, the question is, was that a good thing or a bad thing. I throw that out as a rhetorical question. I do not offer here or ask for an actual answer as that might bring up too much political discussion. My point is that our questioning of authority and traditional ways of behaving (our whole thread) hasresulted in some loss and some gain to our society.

Again, I think it comes down to the difference between "respect" as I defined it above and for want of a better term, "reverence." It's possible to respect authority without revering it, if you get my meaning. A simple non-political way of putting this might be to suppose there's a corrupt, grafting cop in your town. Do you have the right to speed in traffic just because the cop is crooked? If said cop tries to pull you over, are you obligated to obey? Or does the fact that the cop is on the take release you from obligation to acknowledge the authority he represents?

 

[Idledame]

But in disagreeing with someone, such as the president, or or anyone really, there is the distinction between writing an article, holding a protest sign, and spitting on them, yelling curse words while they're speaking etc. So you can show respect without respecting them. The same would go for the teenager cussing up a storm in front of me.

 

[Paisley]

Again, I think it comes down to the difference between "respect" as I defined it above and for want of a better term, "reverence." It's possible to respect authority without revering it, if you get my meaning. A simple non-political way of putting this might be to suppose there's a corrupt, grafting cop in your town. Do you have the right to speed in traffic just because the cop is crooked? If said cop tries to pull you over, are you obligated to obey? Or does the fact that the cop is on the take release you from obligation to acknowledge the authority he represents?

The same discussion came up when I was in the military. You had to show respect for your superiors. Whether you felt respect was your own business.

 

[Foofoogal]

I agree 1000% with Lizziemaine and what I was trying to convey.
All the younger people saw it differently or have a different definition of respect.

I am sure a lot of the younger ones reasoning has arrived from the fact that we lived sort of innocently. As we have talked about before on here in many different ways it was a more innocent time we lived in during the 1950s or 1960s. We didn't have to worry about anyone stealing us out of our front yards when we were playing and such. We had unlocked doors. Maybe not in the big city but where I came from.
The first indication of when we couldn't do that was with the pixy stick guy in Texas. Parents were stunned. So IMHO he killed childhood in a way and many later along the same lines.
Now parents and schools have lectures and classes on "don't talk to strangers with kits and videos and the works." This is completely valid and necessary but in a way we threw the baby out with the bath water.
No longer was the pressure by parents or peers or the general public to follow the strict spoken or unspoken respect of anyone over I think 2 yrs. older than you but especially if you were a child and they were over 21.

One day even the memory of the way it used to be will be a memory.
I also say one day when I am no longer here it will be these very same young ones who will have to come up with a system to counteract or live with this lack of blindly following or accepting authority for boundaries sake.
It will be interesting and freeing or complete chaos. If noone sees the need then who is going to convince who. We may be already half of the way there. Scary stuff IMHO.
I have pretty much come to the conclusion in my own real life that people are going to do what they are going to do. Period.
Sometimes you can spend all your energy and not move one tiny inch. Maybe this is why I post here so much. My last hurrah!

 

[LaMedicine]

Very interesting.
To sum it up, I guess respect is more a social cooncept to those who are older, and a more personal concept to those who are younger.

I suppose that's how a lot of the meanings of words evolve, thus leading to misunderstandings and misconceptions among various groups.

Discussions like this is what I love about this Lounge, we manage to have a very rational *conversation* trying to understand and be understood.
I'm glad everyone took the time to express themselves, and I'm glad I was able to take the time to read through.

Thank you, everyony!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap