The Dobbs Diner...

[ManofKent]

Lovely find Alan

 

[Brad Bowers]

1917-1923 Tuxedo Hat

Here is the circa-1920 (made between 1917 and 1923) Dobbs Tuxedo Hat.
It's the thinnest felt I've encountered, thinner than my 1942 Gay Prince. Size 7 3/8. 6-inch crown, very high-peaked, though that could be due to wear rather than the block. 20-ligne ribbon (1 7/8"), and I forgot to measure the brim, though it's probably around 2 3/8". Since the entire lining is stitched together, I can't investigate to see if there are any tags.

Tuxedo Hats are still kind of a mystery to us, as they don't turn up very often. I've done some research into the history of Tuxedo Hats, but there is so much more that we don't know. The first reference I can find of a man's Tuxedo Hat is from 1900. I guess American men struggled for fifteen or so years to figure out what to wear with a Tuxedo, as a high silk top hat wasn't proper, nor was the stiff hat (Derby). Homburgs appear to have been marginally acceptable, but again, they didn't seem to fit the occasion that an informal suit like the tuxedo would require. The Tuxedo Hat was the answer, an informal hat for informal evening wear. The silk underbrim would complement the lapel facing on the jacket. The felt was light, the entire inside was lined with silk, and thus the hat could be rolled up and stuffed in an overcoat pocket. There are multiple references to Tuxedo Hats in newspaper as and publications through the 'Oughts, the Teens, and into the Twenties. By the 1930s, Opera Hats and Homburgs were also acceptable for evening wear with a Tuxedo, and the Tuxedo Hat fell out of favor by the 1940s. I have found no evidence to suggest country or manufacturer of origin, though I suspect it is an American invention, even though most clothing and hat styles originated in Europe. However, I have found reference to Alpine Tuxedo Hats and Velour Tuxedo Hats, so it's conceivable that they could have migrated from overseas. If I had to put money on a manufacturer, I would have to say Knox. If they didn't invent the style, then they were probably the first American company to produce them.

It's not curled like a Homburg, it just has an upturned flange. Make no mistake, this isn't meant to resemble a Homburg. I have no idea if they were meant to be worn with upturned brim, or as a snap brim, though I'm sure either was acceptable. This hat shows very little signs of wear, though it seems to want to naturally go to a front pinch, leading me to believe that's how it's owner originally wore it. One reference from 1908 also refers to the Tuxedo Hat as a Tuxedo Derby or a Dress Derby, though it is also nothing like a Derby.

To me, this seems like the perfect hat for a Tuxedo. An informal formal hat. Take away the silk underbrim and the silk lining, replace it with a leather sweatband, and you have a soft felt snap-brim hat. An extremely light soft felt hat, but a soft felt hat nonetheless.




Brad

 

[splintercellsz]

Beautiful, Brad!

 

[Garrett]

gorgeous :eusa_clap

 

[ManofKent]

Fascinating find Brad

 

[mikespens]

Brad, does it feel as good as it looks on your head? The inside looks like it begs to be worn.

 

[jamespowers]

Here is the circa-1920 (made between 1917 and 1923) Dobbs Tuxedo Hat.
It's the thinnest felt I've encountered, thinner than my 1942 Gay Prince. Size 7 3/8. 6-inch crown, very high-peaked, though that could be due to wear rather than the block. 20-ligne ribbon (1 7/8"), and I forgot to measure the brim, though it's probably around 2 3/8". Since the entire lining is stitched together, I can't investigate to see if there are any tags.

Tuxedo Hats are still kind of a mystery to us, as they don't turn up very often. I've done some research into the history of Tuxedo Hats, but there is so much more that we don't know. The first reference I can find of a man's Tuxedo Hat is from 1900. I guess American men struggled for fifteen or so years to figure out what to wear with a Tuxedo, as a high silk top hat wasn't proper, nor was the stiff hat (Derby). Homburgs appear to have been marginally acceptable, but again, they didn't seem to fit the occasion that an informal suit like the tuxedo would require. The Tuxedo Hat was the answer, an informal hat for informal evening wear. The silk underbrim would complement the lapel facing on the jacket. The felt was light, the entire inside was lined with silk, and thus the hat could be rolled up and stuffed in an overcoat pocket. There are multiple references to Tuxedo Hats in newspaper as and publications through the 'Oughts, the Teens, and into the Twenties. By the 1930s, Opera Hats and Homburgs were also acceptable for evening wear with a Tuxedo, and the Tuxedo Hat fell out of favor by the 1940s. I have found no evidence to suggest country or manufacturer of origin, though I suspect it is an American invention, even though most clothing and hat styles originated in Europe. However, I have found reference to Alpine Tuxedo Hats and Velour Tuxedo Hats, so it's conceivable that they could have migrated from overseas. If I had to put money on a manufacturer, I would have to say Knox. If they didn't invent the style, then they were probably the first American company to produce them.

It's not curled like a Homburg, it just has an upturned flange. Make no mistake, this isn't meant to resemble a Homburg. I have no idea if they were meant to be worn with upturned brim, or as a snap brim, though I'm sure either was acceptable. This hat shows very little signs of wear, though it seems to want to naturally go to a front pinch, leading me to believe that's how it's owner originally wore it. One reference from 1908 also refers to the Tuxedo Hat as a Tuxedo Derby or a Dress Derby, though it is also nothing like a Derby.

To me, this seems like the perfect hat for a Tuxedo. An informal formal hat. Take away the silk underbrim and the silk lining, replace it with a leather sweatband, and you have a soft felt snap-brim hat. An extremely light soft felt hat, but a soft felt hat nonetheless.

View attachment 3491




Brad

Knox sounds about right. I have never actually seen a Dobbs version until now. Nice! The Knox version is different. It actually has a sweatband and is more conventional inside as well.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Knox sounds about right. I have never actually seen a Dobbs version until now. Nice! The Knox version is different. It actually has a sweatband and is more conventional inside as well.

We've seen a few come through here. I think this is the second Dobbs we've had. I know there was at least one Knox, a Stetson, and my Cavanagh (by Chapeau Mossant). I just think Knox was the more innovative company around 1900, but don't have any proof who first offered these.

Brad

 

[rlk]

I've got Mallory and Borsalino Tuxedo hats also. The Borsalinos are labelled "Opera".

Men's Wear 1905

The American Hatter 1921

 

[Alive'n'Amplified]

Stunning hat, Brad.

 

[John Galt]

Here's a nice unreeded Dobbs with a Whippet style brim binding that I picked up today for $10 in a mad dash through an antique store a few towns over. I don't know the model or vintage, but note the lack of a reed and the slanted hallmark. Maybe Mr. Bowers or one of you other Affectionados can help?

Finding the crease was particularly fun on this hat. It's not one I'd normally pick, but is the one it "remembered" when steamed, so I put it back in.

 

[John Galt]

A couple more, including the sticker tag;

 

[ManofKent]

Nice find, again, John - Interesting crease, but it works, and I'd imagine it hides fading/wear better if you stick with the original.

 

[Alive'n'Amplified]

Really nice hat, JG! My local antique stores always come up empty. I like the multi-stitch on the binding. The crease is nice, too.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Very cool hat, John! To answer your questions, it's a definitely a 1940s hat because of the '40s factory label. As for the model, it's quite probably a Dobbs Envoy, as evidenced by this ad from 1942 touting the triple-stitched grosgrain binding. The ad doesn't talk about contrasting binding, and I know Dobbs used the triple-stitched binding on other hats into the '50s, but I don't have any other model to choose from that fits better than the Envoy. Too bad the liner's missing. It would have had the roundel liner tip, if it's indeed from 1942 or so.

Brad

 

[John Galt]

Thanks Brad! It sure is nice to be able to pick your brain. I really appreciate all of you fellows!

 

[dh66]

trying out the app. Here's a pic of me (hopefully) wearing a Dobbs in an actual diner. Thought it would be appropriate to thi thread. I'll add more pics later if this works, its my favorite hat for now

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[dh66]

Heres a little better pic of the Dobbs. Took a gamble on this on the ebay, only one photo and not much description other than color. I was half expecting a newer wool felt for the bin price. This is the lightest, softest felt I have ever had on my head. And a cavanaugh edge!

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[ManofKent]

Looks a good find dh66

 

[Chepstow]

Looks a good find dh66

indeed! Looks good on you the stingy!