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The Dobbs Diner...

Purplesage

One Too Many
Messages
1,995
Location
Boulder, CO
VVL Twenty Comparison

Brad I think the brown VVL with the reddish brown ribbon is an early 50s model if the VVL made it's debut in 1952. It has all the characteristics of a 40s fedora with the wider brim and the high untapered crown. Additionally, the ribbon looks like an older Dobbs style than the mid 50s which makes me think this particular liner was in use in the early 50s. I think the dark brown VVL is probably mid 50s or newer. All of the vintage VVL ads I've seen seem to be from the mid 50s or newer. I haven't seen an ad showing when the VVL was initially introduced.

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Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
Brad I think the brown VVL with the reddish brown ribbon is an early 50s model if the VVL made it's debut in 1952. It has all the characteristics of a 40s fedora with the wider brim and the high untapered crown. Additionally, the ribbon looks like an older Dobbs style than the mid 50s which makes me think this particular liner was in use in the early 50s. I think the dark brown VVL is probably mid 50s or newer. All of the vintage VVL ads I've seen seem to be from the mid 50s or newer. I haven't seen an ad showing when the VVL was initially introduced.
It very well could be that the liner dates as early as 1952. I don't have a firm date for either the beginning or end of its usage. As far as I can remember without going back through all the pages of this thread, I'm pretty sure it was used for Dobbs Twenties and hats higher in price. The lower-priced hats all seem to have the simple crest without the lions. Usually, the fact that a Hat Corporation of America hat resembles an earlier style is no indicator of age, since you could still get hats with the same crown height and brim width in the 1960s as you could in the 1930s. However, if a hat is a specific model, it makes it a bit easier to date.

Here are a couple of ads for you, one from September 1952, and the second from August 1953. The one from 1952 only shows a narrow ribbon, but was that the only option? We don't know. The ad from 1953 seems to show there were at least two ribbon options, and, of course, there's your wider ribbon. The other possibility, which I consider unlikely, is that VVL is not a necessarily a model designation, but rather a felt quality that could be found in a variety of shapes and styles. These ads seem to indicate, though, that the VVL was a specific model.

DobbsVVL9-6-1952.jpg DobbsVVL-NewYorker-8-29-1952p41.jpg

Brad
 
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Purplesage

One Too Many
Messages
1,995
Location
Boulder, CO
Thanks Brad. You probably could get a Dobbs into the 60s with a similar brim width and crown height as say a hat from the 30s but generally wouldn't that have to be something special ordered since by then the crowns had gotten smaller and tapered and the brims were generally shorter.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
Purplesage, I have no idea if they were offered as a catalog item or were special order only, and don't have any catalogs from the '50s and '60s to know for sure. The majority of ads we run across all show the latest styles, and so we can follow the fashion trend of lowered and tapered crowns and narrower brims as manufacturers tried to entice younger men to wear hats in those two decades. Cavanagh clientele, and Knox, to a certain extent, were often an older crowd who still preferred those older styles, and so I believe that Cavanagh, at least, offered older styles on a regular basis. Dobbs was always meant for a younger crowd, but it's possible they also kept a couple of older syles available for order each year. I wish I had the information to give a definitive answer.

Brad
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
It is. The roundel in the liner tip was used starting in the 1930s and lasting until sometime during WWII. This looks to be 1930s. Nice catch!

Brad
 

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,103
Location
San Francisco, CA
OK, here are some shots of my blue Dobbs Twenty:

Outdoors (kinda out of focus...whoops):

Interior:




Pictured with my Optimo Dillinger, they share a similar DNA:


So I'm guessing late 50's early 60's? It's got a nice, classic blockshape.
 
Messages
13,672
Location
down south
That one is a real beauty, JLee562

Ofcoursemyhorse, I love the color of that one.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
 

Mr. Speakeasy

One of the Regulars
Messages
114
Location
Vancouver
I got this hat a little while ago and was wondering if i could get a better idea of how old it is, I was guessing it was early 40s, possibly late 30s
what do you guys think?

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Alive'n'Amplified

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,032
Location
Atlanta, GA
I got this hat a little while ago and was wondering if i could get a better idea of how old it is, I was guessing it was early 40s, possibly late 30s
what do you guys think?

Brad will weigh in pretty soon. I like the un-reeded sweatband. I'm guessing this hat is early '40s, judging by the stitched seam that joins the sweatband together.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
OK, here are some shots of my blue Dobbs Twenty:


So I'm guessing late 50's early 60's? It's got a nice, classic blockshape.

Indeed, late-'50s to about 1960.

I got this hat a little while ago and was wondering if i could get a better idea of how old it is, I was guessing it was early 40s, possibly late 30s
what do you guys think?

tumblr_mvypmx6Wr51qhhvpco1_1280.jpg

It is a 1940s hat, based on the sewn sweatband seam. I've only encountered one sewn sweatband seam from the 1930s on a Dobbs. The factory label inside should tell us for sure, if you feel it's safe to look at without damaging the leather or sweatband stitching.

Both fantastic hats, gentlemen!

Brad
 

EliasRDA

One of the Regulars
Messages
193
Location
Oceanic Peninsula (DelMarVa) USA
Some of you may have seen my post over in the Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats. etc thread (pg 230, 5th post down).. any idea what time frame that hat may fall into?
The seller called it vintage but didnt give a year so may not have known, or maybe they did & didnt want to kill the price.

Thanks
 
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Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
Some of you may have seen my post over in the Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats. etc thread (pg 230, 5th post down).. any idea what time frame that hat may fall into?
The seller called it vintage but didnt give a year so may not have known, or maybe they did & didnt want to kill the price.

Thanks
Saw it over there. It's 1960s, up to 1972.

Brad
 

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