The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Pinč]

So this is my rabbit fur felt bowler from Czech manufacturer Tonak. It is a new hat. I like that bowlers are still made today, even though very few people ever wear them.
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[moehawk]

This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.

Here's the stamps.

And a head shot.

Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts

 

[Tonio]

This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.

Here's the stamps.

And a head shot.

Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts

That's a nice one! I own a Stetson "the Fray" hat from same store. I had pieced together some info on JC Meussdorffer here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pre-1940s-stetson-westerns.42532/page-37

 

[moehawk]

That's a nice one! I own a Stetson "the Fray" hat from same store. I had pieced together some info on JC Meussdorffer here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pre-1940s-stetson-westerns.42532/page-37

View attachment 81427

Cool old ad. You'd think though, given the subject matter, that they would be wearing some nice hats...

 

[steur]

https://www.terapeak.com/worth/vint...1-8-swan-russell-united-hatters/380570620402/


I believe that Bob was replicating this bow when he came up for the ribbon for Imperial.

Never saw that one before. That's probably the most elaborate bow I have ever seen.

 

[steur]

I must admit I never wear my bowler hats, but if they are the right price I still buy them. If only for the great craftsmanship that goes into them. This one is a recent purchase. Oldham&Fogg bowler in black, size 57. I had never heard of Oldham&Fogg before, but they were located in Hyde, near Manchester. The towns around Manchester like Stockport and Denton (and Hyde) were the centre of British hatting industry. The aquafold was appraently a patented process to shield the felt against water.
This one is, I believe, from the late forties or early fifties. Usually the linings in bowlers are more ornate and pleated. This one is rather plain, which may have had something to do with materials being scarce after the war.

 

[mayserwegener]

This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.

Here's the stamps.

And a head shot.

Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts

Great find! Wears well too!

 

[mayserwegener]

I must admit I never wear my bowler hats, but if they are the right price I still buy them. If only for the great craftsmanship that goes into them. This one is a recent purchase. Oldham&Fogg bowler in black, size 57. I had never heard of Oldham&Fogg before, but they were located in Hyde, near Manchester. The towns around Manchester like Stockport and Denton (and Hyde) were the centre of British hatting industry. The aquafold was appraently a patented process to shield the felt against water.
This one is, I believe, from the late forties or early fifties. Usually the linings in bowlers are more ornate and pleated. This one is rather plain, which may have had something to do with materials being scarce after the war.


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Super find! Great to see a British Stiff Felt!

 

[Pinč]

I must admit I never wear my bowler hats, but if they are the right price I still buy them.

Do you only buy your size, or any size?

 

[steur]

Super find! Great to see a British Stiff Felt!

Steve, thanks. You'd expect they'd be more common, but I found that's not the case.

 

[steur]

Do you only buy your size, or any size?

I only buy my size: I do feel I should be able to wear them (but I just never do).

 

[moehawk]

Great find! Wears well too!

Thanks mayser!

 

[johnnycanuck]

This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.

Here's the stamps.

And a head shot.

Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts

Great looking bowler. Nice to see it modelled on someone's head.
Wear it in good health
Johnny

 

[mayserwegener]

Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality" early 1900s. I posted this old German Stiff Felt a few months ago. I took a real liking to it but the ribbon was damaged so I decided to buy some Mokuba (Japan) Silk ribbon which turned out to be a good match. I contacted Bob at Black Sheep Hat Works (BSHW) and he graciously accepted to install the new ribbon / bow. Unfortunately when the Stiff Felt arrived at BSHW the box had been crushed and the Stiff Felt had major crown dents. Bob did a masterful job of fixing the dents, cleaning up the felt and installing the new ribbon / bow. The bow design matches the original so of the time period. A big Thank You to Bob!

This is the original damaged ribbon / bow that Bob replaced.

Shipping damage and Bob's repair of the crown dents.

Bob had to remove the liner and discovered some writing on the top and sides of the liner (also on the sweatband).

I decided to investigate and I received the following information from Florian Hardwig of TypeDraws.com History of Typography forum. Florian, Thank you for this great information!

>I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats. I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.
I don’t see how the script could help with the dating. The first image includes a line saying “R. 1857”, but that doesn’t tell us much.
The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date.

>Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?
That sounds plausible to me. I don’t know about hats in particular, but at least in some areas, Zoll remained a common unit until deep into the 20th century.

Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?
No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?

>Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner? In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below). Could this be time specific?
I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.

http://typedrawers.com/discussion/2294/german-script-assistance-antique-melone-bowler-hat#latest

 

[Redfokker]

Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality" early 1900s. I posted this old German Stiff Felt a few months ago. I took a real liking to it but the ribbon was damaged so I decided to buy some Mokuba (Japan) Silk ribbon which turned out to be a good match. I contacted Bob at Black Sheep Hat Works (BSHW) and he graciously accepted to install the new ribbon / bow. Unfortunately when the Stiff Felt arrived at BSHW the box had been crushed and the Stiff Felt had major crown dents. Bob did a masterful job of fixing the dents, cleaning up the felt and installing the new ribbon / bow. The bow design matches the original so of the time period. A big Thank You to Bob!

This is the original damaged ribbon / bow that Bob replaced.

Shipping damage and Bob's repair of the crown dents.

Bob had to remove the liner and discovered some writing on the top and sides of the liner (also on the sweatband).

I decided to investigate and I received the following information from Florian Hardwig of TypeDraws.com History of Typography forum. Florian, Thank you for this great information!

>I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats. I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.
I don’t see how the script could help with the dating. The first image includes a line saying “R. 1857”, but that doesn’t tell us much.
The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date.

>Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?
That sounds plausible to me. I don’t know about hats in particular, but at least in some areas, Zoll remained a common unit until deep into the 20th century.

Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?
No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?

>Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner? In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below). Could this be time specific?
I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.

http://typedrawers.com/discussion/2294/german-script-assistance-antique-melone-bowler-hat#latest

Disaster averted. Fascinating study of the mystery writing found.

 

[mayserwegener]

Mike, Thank you! Yes I was very happy that Bob was able to fix the shipping damage. By the way a 1 Zoll = 1 1/32 Inches.

 

[splintercellsz]

1910s/20s Stetson Derby bearing the 1915 Exposition Medal

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[splintercellsz]

Cont.

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[Redfokker]

Cont.

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Pretty neat Justin! You can rock a derby.

 

[splintercellsz]

Pretty neat Justin! You can rock a derby.

I'll try. itll be awhile, but I'll find something to pair it with. I used to wear and old 1800s Lenox that I owned 6 or so years ago

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