The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Captain O]

That is impressive. I wish I had one like it. Those were the day's weren't they?

 

[M Hatman]

That's a beauty. Love the liner.

Yes, the liners on these can be real impressive......I am thrilled I got the original box with this one too!!

That is impressive. I wish I had one like it. Those were the day's weren't they?

Those were the days.....a derby was one of the most popular hat styles for quite some time.....ALL classes of society could be found wearing them.....from laborers, to bankers, to dressed up bank robbers (think Buch Cassidy). They were the go to hat whenever one would wear a tuxedo well into the 30's. Yes, cool hats with history......
M

 

[Captain O]

I received my Christys' Derby and it was a 6 3/4 not 6 7/8. I'll have to return the hat in order to get the larger size.

Poo!

 

[Captain O]

I shipped the hat back this afternoon. Pauly assured me he would ship me a size 7 (stating that the European sizes tend to run small). I will probably have the larger size by Wednesday or Thursday. These Bowlers are the "Real McCoy" and even at the extra cost of $10.05 to ship the hat back to Ripon CA it will be worth the money and the wait.

If you want an "honest to goodness" English Bowler at a reasonable price Pauly's hats for half price is worth the look.

 

[Redfokker]

I present the Dunstatter Magical Mystery Derby, here is my latest stiff felt. I'm getting what I would consider a "collection" of Bowler/Derby types, I now have five! (I know, I'm a wannabe...) This was a cheap Ebay listing with an interesting "Deerskin" box, in need of some TLC, pics at a later date. The photos didn't do it justice, but one had a shot of the sweat and size tag which made me grab it. There is no indication as to who made this early derby, the liner logo is long gone and the ghost does not yield much information. The store it came from Dunstatter, was an early century men's store on Long Island. The curl of the brim is really nice. Mike Miller fell in love with it. Very high quality stiff felt, glass smooth on the crown. The sweat is taped with the small round size tag pasted on. I assume this derby is early century, hopefully 1910s?

 

[Captain O]

I present the Dunstatter Magical Mystery Derby, here is my latest stiff felt. I'm getting what I would consider a "collection" of Bowler/Derby types, I now have five! (I know, I'm a wannabe...) This was a cheap Ebay listing with an interesting "Deerskin" box, in need of some TLC, pics at a later date. The photos didn't do it justice, but one had a shot of the sweat and size tag which made me grab it. There is no indication as to who made this early derby, the liner logo is long gone and the ghost does not yield much information. The store it came from Dunstatter, was an early century men's store on Long Island. The curl of the brim is really nice. Mike Miller fell in love with it. Very high quality stiff felt, glass smooth on the crown. The sweat is taped with the small round size tag pasted on. I assume this derby is early century, hopefully 1910s?


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That is a knockout, Red. I truly appreciate the fine work that went into manufacturing that headgear. Both you and Mike Miller have great taste in felt!

There's nothing quite like it.

 

[Captain O]

Red,

You aren't a "wannabe". We are the original "sons of our fathers" that had a sense of style and decorum. We are "mature" but not "aged" (I'll wait until I'm 80 to take that title, thank you).

We dress as adults, not as little boys that stopped maturing at 18. (The ball cap is fine in the hunting field, or when working on the ranch). No, I see a bunch of older gents running around in ball caps, and feel a bit sorry for them. If you're spending your time in town, I feel it is time to "move up" to something with a bit more dignity.

 

[mayserwegener]

J.Hückel´s Söhne Wien, Point 5 1/2, probably WWI era.

 

[mayserwegener]

Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality", measures 58.5cm, Crown 5 1/2 inches, Brim 2 inches, 156 grams, Wool or Wool Blend, no paper label, Seller dated 1905. This Melone has a really interesting Form and Brim work with a 1 3/4 inch Ribbon / Band. I will take a photo wearing it later today so you can see the overall effect. Unfortunately there is some damage to the front of the ribbon but it's 100+ years old. I think the seller's (belonged to great grandfather) dating is accurate.

I was able to find a small help wanted advertisement for Hch. Klipper & Comp in the Intelligenz-Blatt der freien Stadt Frankfurt, Part 4 (1862). I am also waiting on some more information from the Seller.

818 A solid boy from a decent family can learn the furrier and cap business at Hch. Klipper & Comp. in Offenbach a. M.

 

[mayserwegener]

J. Hückel´s Söhne Wien "Eureka - Plume", French Point 5 1/4, 117 grams, probably early 1900s. I have never come across a "Eureka" before. The form of this Stiff Felt is really great. The black liner and gold embossing is especially striking. Same with the stylized "Eureka" on the sweatband. Also notice the 1/4 French French Point Size so 5 1/4 would equal 57.5 cm. French Point Sizing was in 1/4 intervals up to WWII. I have only come across Stiff Felts in French Point 1/4 sizes. A Hat Satchel was included but not original to the hat (Kötzschenbroda is nearby Dresden).

 

[Pinč]

Gentlemen, how should stiff hats as bowler, homburg, top hat etc. be stored? Upside down on the crown, as a fedora for example, or on the brim? I know, the hat box is probably the best, but I do not own one (yet).

 

[mayserwegener]

If not in Hat Boxes, Cases or Satchels I store Stiff Felts Crown side up. I use Cellophane Hat Covers to keep the dust off the felt. I do the same with Soft Felts too. You can use Foam Spacer Rings between the Soft Felts if stacking and make sure there isn't much pressure on the Crowns (smaller Crowns inside larger Crowns). Stiff Felts are difficult to stack because you do not want to put pressure on the Crowns. Without Foam Spacer Rings I stacked Soft Felts 180 degrees Crown side up but this can cause them to fall over.

 

[Pinč]

I stacked Soft Felts 180 degrees Crown side up

I read that soft felts should be stored crown side down because the pressure on the brim may cause it to flatten. Isn't this the case?

 

[mayserwegener]

I read that soft felts should be stored crown side down because the pressure on the brim may cause it to flatten. Isn't this the case?

That might be the case if you lay the hat on a flat surface. Normally the bottom hat on stack is on a Hat Holder made out of paper (see photo below). Actually Hat Boxes where the hat is stored Crown Down can cause wear to the brim edge especially with Specialty Finishes (Velour, ect).

I have a few Cases and Satchels that use this method.

Here is an example of inverted Soft Felt Hat Holder. The first hat of the stack is placed Crown Down. It's best to use Foam Ring Spacers between the Soft Felt Hats. These Soft Felt Hat Holders sometimes came in Hat sizes. These were used in European Hat Stores.

Here is Mayser Crown Up Soft Felt Hat Display. It would be best to use a Paper Hat Holder (see above) for the first Soft Felt Hat in the stack and Foam Spacer Rings between the Soft Felt Hats.

 

[Pinč]

That might be the case if you lay the hat on a flat surface. Normally the bottom hat on stack is on a Hat Holder made out of paper (see photo below). Actually Hat Boxes where the hat is stored Crown Down can cause wear to the brim edge especially with Specialty Finishes (Velour, ect).

Oh, now I get it. Thank you for the thorough explanation! By the way, it is nice to see old Tonak hat case. I didn't even know that it was called Hückel before, but I recognised the logo. Now I also get the letters: JHS = J. Hückel a synové (J. Hückel and sons). I think I will have to get some of those paper hat holders!

 

[mayserwegener]

Berlin Gubener Hutfabrik B.G.H., probably 1920s. This fantastic Melone belongs to Stadt- und Industriemuseum Guben.

 

[steur]

This is going to be in two parts as a sort of before and after. I picked up this bowler in brown if only for the colour (which doesn't come around too often). There's no brand name, but I have reason to believe it was originally made by Boy de Winter of L'Hiver in Uden, Holland. He's a specialist hatmaker for dressage hats and the hat is definitely a dressage hat. However, someone decided they could do a makeover of the hat themselves and the results can be seen below. The petersham ribbon was glued on with no bow at all, the sweatband was not leather and a mess, the liner seemed to have been made of old curtains and the underside of the brim was damaged. What to do? In the end I sent it over to Fleur de Huu of Penumbra Hat Co to renovate the hat. But first the "before" shots.

 

[steur]

Now for the "after" shots. It took quite a while to decide what treatment fitted the hat. I wanted the hat to keep both a classic feel and make a statement at the same time. Not every ribbon treatment was possible because real grosgrain ribbon as very hard to get. We decided on a colour scheme in brown with some contrast and a bow treatment which made statement (I found an example here in the "bows take a bow" thread and I believe Black Sheep hatworks uses the same or similar treatment on one their hats too). The sweatband was replaced which was quite the challenge because it needs to be attached to the cloth on the underside of the brim. The brim binding was replaced as was the ribbon (of course). A new lining was made and the hat was given a hatgrease treatment to bring back its colour better. For the liner and sweatband the hats of T&W Lees were used as an inspiration. After i got it I heated up the front and back of the brim to get a bit more curve in there. All the work was done by hand by Fleur, not only because you cannot use a machine to stitch a bowler, but that's the way she works. The liner seam not lining up with the bsweatband bow is my doing by the way (I was mucking about with it for the pictures). I'd say she did great job and the hat does make a statement in my view.
What happened to posting multiple pictures at once by the way? This one picture at a time method is not an improvement.

 

[KarlCrow]

Now for the "after" shots. It took quite a while to decide what treatment fitted the hat. I wanted the hat to keep both a classic feel and make a statement at the same time. Not every ribbon treatment was possible because real grosgrain ribbon as very hard to get. We decided on a colour scheme in brown with some contrast and a bow treatment which made statement (I found an example here in the "bows take a bow" thread and I believe Black Sheep hatworks uses the same or similar treatment on one their hats too). The sweatband was replaced which was quite the challenge because it needs to be attached to the cloth on the underside of the brim. The brim binding was replaced as was the ribbon (of course). A new lining was made and the hat was given a hatgrease treatment to bring back its colour better. For the liner and sweatband the hats of T&W Lees were used as an inspiration. After i got it I heated up the front and back of the brim to get a bit more curve in there. All the work was done by hand by Fleur, not only because you cannot use a machine to stitch a bowler, but that's the way she works. The liner seam not lining up with the bsweatband bow is my doing by the way (I was mucking about with it for the pictures). I'd say she did great job and the hat does make a statement in my view.
What happened to posting multiple pictures at once by the way? This one picture at a time method is not an improvement.

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it looks like quality work, nice colours.

 

[steur]

Karl, thanks. It certainly is quality work. Pity the hat is too large for me even though it's a size 57.