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The Bowler or Derby Hat

moehawk

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,837
Location
Northern California
This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

374da79f21e57cddaf8f0cca98ead435.jpg
04a21b5b314924a9ac99df763e15cc8c.jpg
2884f326fccb042c1d2e20ea824b0594.jpg


The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

fe9b3de57e97738b057c1e1fda7bb2a6.jpg


Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

5847d3932bccd56670daa9964816297b.jpg


I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.:)

f8cea1c09443f8e09377ab884fb66e04.jpg


Here's the stamps.

d74036a31b682d608e0476a38bd1f79d.jpg
52b4d7465f5bfdf33d24b517f76017ca.jpg
be042bbd83f1b23d4e339162f5cd4e1c.jpg
392f5d64c9302663d50333ffd657646c.jpg
d93a082f894d9886e2ce6700c17a5ab3.jpg


And a head shot.

74356cc014f7b9869acae22041308132.jpg


Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts
 

Tonio

A-List Customer
Messages
445
This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

374da79f21e57cddaf8f0cca98ead435.jpg
04a21b5b314924a9ac99df763e15cc8c.jpg
2884f326fccb042c1d2e20ea824b0594.jpg


The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

fe9b3de57e97738b057c1e1fda7bb2a6.jpg


Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

5847d3932bccd56670daa9964816297b.jpg


I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.:)

f8cea1c09443f8e09377ab884fb66e04.jpg


Here's the stamps.

d74036a31b682d608e0476a38bd1f79d.jpg
52b4d7465f5bfdf33d24b517f76017ca.jpg
be042bbd83f1b23d4e339162f5cd4e1c.jpg
392f5d64c9302663d50333ffd657646c.jpg
d93a082f894d9886e2ce6700c17a5ab3.jpg


And a head shot.

74356cc014f7b9869acae22041308132.jpg


Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts

That's a nice one! I own a Stetson "the Fray" hat from same store. I had pieced together some info on JC Meussdorffer here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pre-1940s-stetson-westerns.42532/page-37

image.jpeg
 
Messages
18,411
Location
Nederland
I must admit I never wear my bowler hats, but if they are the right price I still buy them. If only for the great craftsmanship that goes into them. This one is a recent purchase. Oldham&Fogg bowler in black, size 57. I had never heard of Oldham&Fogg before, but they were located in Hyde, near Manchester. The towns around Manchester like Stockport and Denton (and Hyde) were the centre of British hatting industry. The aquafold was appraently a patented process to shield the felt against water.
This one is, I believe, from the late forties or early fifties. Usually the linings in bowlers are more ornate and pleated. This one is rather plain, which may have had something to do with materials being scarce after the war.


oldham_01.jpg oldham_02.jpg oldham_03.jpg oldham_05.jpg oldham_06.jpg oldham_07.jpg oldham_08.jpg oldham_09.jpg oldham_10.jpg
 
Messages
17,489
Location
Maryland
This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

374da79f21e57cddaf8f0cca98ead435.jpg
04a21b5b314924a9ac99df763e15cc8c.jpg
2884f326fccb042c1d2e20ea824b0594.jpg


The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

fe9b3de57e97738b057c1e1fda7bb2a6.jpg


Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

5847d3932bccd56670daa9964816297b.jpg


I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.:)

f8cea1c09443f8e09377ab884fb66e04.jpg


Here's the stamps.

d74036a31b682d608e0476a38bd1f79d.jpg
52b4d7465f5bfdf33d24b517f76017ca.jpg
be042bbd83f1b23d4e339162f5cd4e1c.jpg
392f5d64c9302663d50333ffd657646c.jpg
d93a082f894d9886e2ce6700c17a5ab3.jpg


And a head shot.

74356cc014f7b9869acae22041308132.jpg


Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts
Great find! Wears well too!
 
Messages
17,489
Location
Maryland
I must admit I never wear my bowler hats, but if they are the right price I still buy them. If only for the great craftsmanship that goes into them. This one is a recent purchase. Oldham&Fogg bowler in black, size 57. I had never heard of Oldham&Fogg before, but they were located in Hyde, near Manchester. The towns around Manchester like Stockport and Denton (and Hyde) were the centre of British hatting industry. The aquafold was appraently a patented process to shield the felt against water.
This one is, I believe, from the late forties or early fifties. Usually the linings in bowlers are more ornate and pleated. This one is rather plain, which may have had something to do with materials being scarce after the war.


View attachment 81589 View attachment 81590 View attachment 81591 View attachment 81592 View attachment 81593 View attachment 81594 View attachment 81595 View attachment 81596 View attachment 81597
Super find! Great to see a British Stiff Felt!
 

johnnycanuck

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,008
Location
Alberta
This Warburton was found on Goodwill's online auction site out of Oregon. No size given, so I messaged the seller for measurements. Sounded close enough, so I threw out a bid and won.
Arrived today. It is in great shape, just a little dusty. The thick unreeded sweatband has a taped seam and a nice texture. It is still supple with good stitching. I gave the hat a good steaming and brushing, and that seems to be all the cleaning it needed.
Here's some pics.

374da79f21e57cddaf8f0cca98ead435.jpg
04a21b5b314924a9ac99df763e15cc8c.jpg
2884f326fccb042c1d2e20ea824b0594.jpg


The crown is free of dents and dings, no mushy spots or moth bites found.
The liner wasn't sewn or glued.

fe9b3de57e97738b057c1e1fda7bb2a6.jpg


Tags. First is marked with the retailers name on top.

5847d3932bccd56670daa9964816297b.jpg


I was pleasantly surprised with this one. My first Schoble.:)

f8cea1c09443f8e09377ab884fb66e04.jpg


Here's the stamps.

d74036a31b682d608e0476a38bd1f79d.jpg
52b4d7465f5bfdf33d24b517f76017ca.jpg
be042bbd83f1b23d4e339162f5cd4e1c.jpg
392f5d64c9302663d50333ffd657646c.jpg
d93a082f894d9886e2ce6700c17a5ab3.jpg


And a head shot.

74356cc014f7b9869acae22041308132.jpg


Marked at 7 1/8, but it only needed a little scootch up to fit my 7 1/4 head. 4 1/2" crown, the brim is 2 1/8" front to back, 1 3/4" on the sides with that nice curl. 160g.
Any input on the age is welcome. My guess is 30's, but that is just a guess.

Powered by happy thoughts
Great looking bowler. Nice to see it modelled on someone's head.
Wear it in good health
Johnny
 
Messages
17,489
Location
Maryland
Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality" early 1900s. I posted this old German Stiff Felt a few months ago. I took a real liking to it but the ribbon was damaged so I decided to buy some Mokuba (Japan) Silk ribbon which turned out to be a good match. I contacted Bob at Black Sheep Hat Works (BSHW) and he graciously accepted to install the new ribbon / bow. Unfortunately when the Stiff Felt arrived at BSHW the box had been crushed and the Stiff Felt had major crown dents. Bob did a masterful job of fixing the dents, cleaning up the felt and installing the new ribbon / bow. The bow design matches the original so of the time period. A big Thank You to Bob!

35732504034_433706faa3_b.jpg


36399182902_d3da36d42e_b.jpg


36399363452_b6e788e994_b.jpg


36429414341_2ce49435bd_b.jpg


This is the original damaged ribbon / bow that Bob replaced.

34828942066_aa573e2f00_b.jpg


34868566515_becba61ee4_b.jpg


Shipping damage and Bob's repair of the crown dents.

35734017354_5e5851662f_h.jpg


Bob had to remove the liner and discovered some writing on the top and sides of the liner (also on the sweatband).

36522184516_1a5f5c02a9_b.jpg


36568862825_9ac2f188cb_b.jpg


36522190396_e728f1e373_b.jpg


36522187676_2c5509f79b_b.jpg


I decided to investigate and I received the following information from Florian Hardwig of TypeDraws.com History of Typography forum. Florian, Thank you for this great information!

>I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats. I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.
I don’t see how the script could help with the dating. The first image includes a line saying “R. 1857”, but that doesn’t tell us much.
The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date.

>Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?
That sounds plausible to me. I don’t know about hats in particular, but at least in some areas, Zoll remained a common unit until deep into the 20th century.

Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?
No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?

>Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner? In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below). Could this be time specific?
I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.

http://typedrawers.com/discussion/2294/german-script-assistance-antique-melone-bowler-hat#latest
 
Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality" early 1900s. I posted this old German Stiff Felt a few months ago. I took a real liking to it but the ribbon was damaged so I decided to buy some Mokuba (Japan) Silk ribbon which turned out to be a good match. I contacted Bob at Black Sheep Hat Works (BSHW) and he graciously accepted to install the new ribbon / bow. Unfortunately when the Stiff Felt arrived at BSHW the box had been crushed and the Stiff Felt had major crown dents. Bob did a masterful job of fixing the dents, cleaning up the felt and installing the new ribbon / bow. The bow design matches the original so of the time period. A big Thank You to Bob!

35732504034_433706faa3_b.jpg


36399182902_d3da36d42e_b.jpg


36399363452_b6e788e994_b.jpg


36429414341_2ce49435bd_b.jpg


This is the original damaged ribbon / bow that Bob replaced.

34828942066_aa573e2f00_b.jpg


34868566515_becba61ee4_b.jpg


Shipping damage and Bob's repair of the crown dents.

35734017354_5e5851662f_h.jpg


Bob had to remove the liner and discovered some writing on the top and sides of the liner (also on the sweatband).

36522184516_1a5f5c02a9_b.jpg


36568862825_9ac2f188cb_b.jpg


36522190396_e728f1e373_b.jpg


36522187676_2c5509f79b_b.jpg


I decided to investigate and I received the following information from Florian Hardwig of TypeDraws.com History of Typography forum. Florian, Thank you for this great information!

>I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats. I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.
I don’t see how the script could help with the dating. The first image includes a line saying “R. 1857”, but that doesn’t tell us much.
The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date.

>Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?
That sounds plausible to me. I don’t know about hats in particular, but at least in some areas, Zoll remained a common unit until deep into the 20th century.

Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?
No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?

>Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner? In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below). Could this be time specific?
I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.

http://typedrawers.com/discussion/2294/german-script-assistance-antique-melone-bowler-hat#latest
Disaster averted. Fascinating study of the mystery writing found.
 

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