The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[steur]

Interesting, Stefan, thanks. Maybe they didn't want to repeat the same word, or maybe he did produce a periodical about English hats. Doesn't seem likely though. The hat industry in general and the English ditto in particular was in decline from the mid 50s to mid 60s.
If, however, he did produce a magazine about English hats, how great would it be to get hold of one? On a scale of 1-10, I'd say, 11 [emoji4]

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I think this telephone book listing is actually pre-war: the phone numbers are three and four digit numbers. Don't know what period that would be.
I have been looking for magazines like that, but so far nothing at all in my searches. Feels like looking for a black hole!

 

[Steve1857]

I think this telephone book listing is actually pre-war: the phone numbers are three and four digit numbers. Don't know what period that would be.
I have been looking for magazines like that, but so far nothing at all in my searches. Feels like looking for a black hole!

Black holes are ten a penny compared to pre-war German magazines about English hats. They're more like unicorns. I'm still not convinced magazine means magazine in that phone book, but let's keep searching for the holy grail [emoji4]

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[steur]

Black holes are ten a penny compared to pre-war German magazines about English hats. They're more like unicorns. I'm still not convinced magazine means magazine in that phone book, but let's keep searching for the holy grail [emoji4]

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There's always hope! Maybe he was the distributor for Germany of the English magazine.

 

[Steve1857]

There's always hope! Maybe he was the distributor for Germany of the English magazine.

Interesting thought again, Stefan. What magazine would that be I wonder? Or is it more of a catalogue, or various English brand's catalogues.

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[steur]

Interesting thought again, Stefan. What magazine would that be I wonder? Or is it more of a catalogue, or various English brand's catalogues.

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The only one I can think of is the Hatters' Gazette. Published from the late 1800's up until 1950

 

[Steve1857]

The only one I can think of is the Hatters' Gazette. Published from the late 1800's up until 1950

I'll be in Manchester during the last week of November. I'm planning on visiting the Hat Works. They have a research facility, so I'll see if I can dig something up.

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[mayserwegener]

Thanks, gentlemen. Like Steve said, no-button windcords are quite common. This liner, combined with the label puts it somewhere between 1955 and 1965 I'd say. The yellow oilskin covered liners seem to be replaced somewhere in the mid sixties and the borsalino designation on the label disappeared somewhere in the mid fifties. The seller had it listed as "over thirty years old" which is not wrong, but not exactly right either. But based on that probably early sixties.
There still was a hatshop on the address in Hamburg in 2014 but under the name of Falkenhagen. They were there since 1979. So Louis Grude was there before that time. I have found some undated reference to the man (and his shop) being located at Steindamm 72 in Hamburg. It does list however "english hat magazine" ; a side job maybe?

It's probably mid to later 1960s. In the mid to later 1950s you see Echter Borsalino + Export Qualität prior just Echter Borsalino. Eventually just Borsalino Export Qualität.

 

[theactorsinger]

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Punti size is the French measurement method used in Borsalino because Mr. Giuseppe, having worked at Berteil-Paris, used it when he started his business in Italy. I do not find big differences in sizes between the new and old Borsalino. You have a very common measure of hats, the 57 centimeters, of used and new hats you can find in tons, why buy a block to enlarge them? You know then that almost always the work of enlarging the hats brings inconveniences. Try to think about it

What is the measurement of Borsalino hat size 4 ?

 

[drmaxtejeda]

What is the measurement of Borsalino hat size 4 ?

6 7/8

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[steur]

Borsalino bismuto, size 58. Bound brim at a good 5cm and crown 10,5cm at the pinch. Bismuto seems to have been a very popular colour, because I see hats on this colour on a regular basis.

 

[steur]

Another recent find. A modern Borsalino in size 55. I bought it because of its unusual colour, which I cannot name because the modern ones no longer list it on the label. Raw edge brim at 6cm and crown 11 cm at the pinch.

 

[steur]

More Borsalino. Borsalino Qualitá Speciale in the colour Sider in a size 61. Bound brim at 5,5cm and crown 11,5cm at the pinch. This one has a discoloured ribbon which has faded from the dark grey Buio colour to a blue-ish tone.

 

[steur]

The best of the lot. Borsalino Export Qualität Gran Lusso homburg or lobbia in the colour Morello, which is a very dark brown. Very unusual colour and not seen very often, certainly not on a homburg. Size 58 with a bound brim at 5,5cm and crown 10cm in front. Not my size, so it's going up for ale, auction or trade.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

The best of the lot. Borsalino Export Qualität Gran Lusso homburg or lobbia in the colour Morello, which is a very dark brown. Very unusual colour and not seen very often, certainly not on a homburg. Size 58 with a bound brim at 5,5cm and crown 10cm in front. Not my size, so it's going up for ale, auction or trade.
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Really the best of the bunch. Why it is so small? [emoji51]

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[steur]

Really the best of the bunch. Why it is so small? [emoji51]

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It's always the right size for someone, Daniele. Unfortunately in this case it's not you or me

 

[Steve1857]

It's always the right size for someone, Daniele. Unfortunately in this case it's not you or me

Hopefully, it's me

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[deadlyhandsome]

I’m looking at a modern Borsalino that has a size tag in three units of measurement:
61 - 7 - 7 1/2
My question is that a metic 61 and French/Punti 7 is normally a US size 7 5/8 so is the 7 1/2 UK sizing?

The hat appears to have been made for the US market so UK sizing doesn’t make a lot of sense. I wonder if recently Borsalino, which usually runs small in my experience, decided that their size 61 was closer to a US size 7 1/2 than 7 5/8. Does anyone have any experience with this?


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[Bill Hughes]

I’m looking at a modern Borsalino that has a size tag in three units of measurement:
61 - 7 - 7 1/2
My question is that a metic 61 and French/Punti 7 is normally a US size 7 5/8 so is the 7 1/2 UK sizing?

The hat appears to have been made for the US market so UK sizing doesn’t make a lot of sense. I wonder if recently Borsalino, which usually runs small in my experience, decided that their size 61 was closer to a US size 7 1/2 than 7 5/8. Does anyone have any experience with this?


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Yes, 7 5/8 US = 7 1/2 UK.

Yes, my experience with Borsalino is that they tend to run small. If the hat is reeded it’s more noticeable.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Yes, 7 5/8 US = 7 1/2 UK.

Yes, my experience with Borsalino is that they tend to run small. If the hat is reeded it’s more noticeable.

Thanks, Bill. I know that 7 1/2 UK is a 7 5/8 US, but I can’t figure out why a hat made for the US market in 61 would show 7 1/2 also on the size label rather than 7 5/8. I was wondering if Borsalino had conceded that their hats run small and changed their metric 61 to be the equivalent to a US 7 1/2.

As an aside: I’ve come across a few modern Stetsons with US stores printed on their sweats and size tags with “62 - 7 5/8.” The US equivalent to a size 62 is a 7 3/4...it would make sense if made for the UK market, but then the US store on the sweat throws me. Life’s small mysteries.


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[Tukwila]

I've had 2 Borsalinos. My hat size runs between 59cm - 60cm. In fact, most of my vintage hats are probably tagged 7-3/8.

My 80s Borsalino was a 59 and was much too small. The vintage Borsalino was unreeded, size 60, and just fit right. A smidge smaller and it would have been too tight for me.

I thought maybe Borsalino's trend to running small would translate over to other European producers so grabbed a gorgeous Tonak velour in 61.... too big.

For Borsalinos I would never even try anything smaller than 60-61. My customs run 59.5 cm or around 23-3/8".