The Adventurer's Gear Thread

[Creeping Past]

Maybe Alexi is speaking of those "sticks", rather than a random mention of antler-topped sticks.

Ah, yes. I hope he says so, otherwise we'll never know.

Of course, the 'shooting sticks' in that post are ice axes/walking sticks.

 

[avedwards]

Your trip sounds like a great time, I've read of the D of E awards and the program sounds wonderful.

A couple of notes:
Skip the cotton shirts. In wet weather these will never dry and a wet, cold cotton shirt next to your skin is a great way to get hypothermia. I prefer merino wool for this purpose, but syntetics work fine as well and synthetics will dry faster if you get lots of rain.

I am not a fan of gore tex boots, but if you have a pair which works for you I wouldn't switch for the sake of switching.

Poly-cotton trousers - maybe. Would not be my first choice but you do have waterproof over-trousers to wear in the rain. I would be certain to have synthetic or wool long underwear regardless of what trousers you wear. An inexpensive option may be a pair of wool dress pants from a thrift store. The cut is generally favorable, the pockets are genereally deep and they are lightweight. I took a pair of dress pants and made them into cycling knickers and they are wonderful to wear.

Hats - tilleys are great, but if they get wet they will take forever and a day to dry. The deerstalker may be the way to go.

Socks - wool socks are your best friend. The merino wool versions are wonderful, I used to use ragg wool socks in the past and much prefer merino wool socks. Wool socks will do a better job of soaking up foot sweat than silk or synthetics. Avoid cotton in socks like you would avoid the plague.

I didn't look at the gear list closely but a couple of items worth their weight in gold; fingerless wool, or fleece, gloves and a wool, or fleece, balaclava. I never head into the bush without these two items even in the heat of summer.

Thanks for the in detailed advice (thanks also to Mr Godfrey).

I will definitely go with the deerstalker over the Tilley.

I will keep the gortex boots but will look around for wool socks rather than cotton ones. However, I hope they aren't too warm as I get very uncomfortable when my feet get warm, so much that I will be ungentlemanly and take my shoes off in classrooms.

However, I see what you say with cotton shirts but you must remember that with any luck they won't get wet and the problem of them drying too slowly shouldn't exist, since I will have my waterproof jacket on to stop them getting wet in the first place. Plus I may take my military surplus shirt which is poly cotton but dries extremely quicly due to the weave.

As for the trousers, wool doesn't sound like a bad idea but I like my poly-cotton ones as they are very breathable but also fast drying. Though I may look around for some military surplus ones since I hope they would be of good quality. I appreciate your tip on the underwear, but with it being July I'm wary of getting too warm.

As for the fingerless gloves, I think my sailing gloves will do the trick. They are good when they are wet and the index finger and thumb are fingerless (to help when tying knots).

So I will definitely make sure to find wool socks, and if I can I'll seek out some wool trousers and wool shirts.

 

[nobodyspecial]

It is worth mentioning, if you are carrying a rucksack in the rain you will either get wet from the rain or wet from sweat building up inside your waterproof jacket. One way or another the shirt next to your skin gets wet and has to dry.

As far as feet sweating - given you are hiking in boots your feet are likely to sweat a bit whether you wear cotton or wool socks. Wool handles the perspiration much better than cotton and will dry faster. If you bring two sets of socks you can swap them out midday and both pair should be dry the next morning if you hang them up at night.

 

[pipvh]

Mr Allen,

What time of year are you doing your DofE? It can get pretty warm on the moors as well, but having said that I'd agree with everyone who said to bring wool underwear along, at least something like a merino t-shirt to wear under a cotton shirt, because, hypothermia aside, wet cotton next to the skin feels vile and dispiriting. You have to take care not to let your core become chilled.

People say nice things about army lightweight trousers (for summer walking), though I don't have any. My favourite pair of walking trousers, long gone, were old cavalry twill, which were the perfect weight. Lately I've been enjoying a pair of flannel-lined heavy duck Carhartts (the US kind, not the Euro ones). They're nice and windproof, and look resolutely lo-tech.

Re Goretex over non-Goretex boots, your feet are going to get wet no matter what, because you'll inevitably step into a ditch/bog/mire/brook at some point. A pair of leather-lined boots will recover far better than synthetic. Definitely NO to cotton socks. And as for hats, the clincher for me would be the wind. Choose something that's going to stay on when it starts to blow.

 

[Alexi]

sorry ffolk I just was wondering what is up in general with with antler shooting sticks. do people really use them as monopods? what are thumb sticks and wadding sticks?

 

[Creeping Past]

sorry ffolk I just was wondering what is up in general with with antler shooting sticks. do people really use them as monopods? what are thumb sticks and wadding sticks?

Thanks, Alexi. In that case, my first answer stands as is. Thumb sticks are walking sticks with a v-shaped top with a notch cut into it for the user's thumb. They're good for steep hills. On level ground, the thumb notch of such a stick should be level with the bottom of your breastbone.

 

[pipvh]

Thumb sticks are walking sticks with a v-shaped top with a notch cut into it for the user's thumb.

Preferably made of blackthorn.

 

[Creeping Past]

Preferably made of blackthorn.

They come in many flavours, though. Certain FL members tend secret coppices across rural England that provide suitable branches.

 

[pipvh]

They come in many flavours, though.

I'll own up to mostly using hazel... Though I've got my eye on some likely long-term blackthorn candidates.

 

[BellyTank]

German sticks and bone-

German hunting culture uses a lot of antler and bone as decoration on sticks,
cutlery, clothing, etc. Famous is the hunting knife, "jagdmesser", or "hirschfänger" with antler, or a deer's foot as the handle.
And the stick, "wanderstock"(walking/hiking stick), or "spazierstock"(a dandy one) with an antler grip, geweih griff.

Also the spazierstock can have heavy carving, at the grip, with a wolf, or horse head and can be fully carved- there is some Carpathian cuture of heavily carved sticks, with edelweiss and other plant and nature motifs.
The sticks may have a finish on the surface, the carving revealing the inner wood and contrast- there is also some painting and burning work, for added contrast and texture.
In WW2, German officers (especially mountain troops)on campaign in Eastern Europe often had souvenir sticks, locally made, fully carved but with added Germanic motifs- those made for SS officers, with swastikas and runes are very collectible.
I have a couple of sticks(not the SS variety) but have had difficulty tracing the exact origin of the style- Carpathian and Polish origin is as much as I have been able to find.

I like them.

This website has newly made spazierstöcke:

http://www.basticks.de/spazierstoecke.html

I have this stick:

http://www.basticks.de/spazierstoecke/p1069_spazierstock-wolf.html

...from this vendor and an original one like this:

http://www.basticks.de/spazierstoecke/p646_-spazierstock-drache-flanierstock.html

The ones from the website are maybe more decorative than functional,
I guess, being a softer wood and perhaps too flexible.


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

spazierstock

There's an Ebay seller called Ukrainian Crafts offering these. More or less the same wolf design, too.

 

[BellyTank]

Yes, I saw that.

The Wolf head stick is a bit OTT but I couldn't resist.


B
T

 

[Mr. Godfrey]

As far as feet sweating - given you are hiking in boots your feet are likely to sweat a bit whether you wear cotton or wool socks. Wool handles the perspiration much better than cotton and will dry faster. If you bring two sets of socks you can swap them out midday and both pair should be dry the next morning if you hang them up at night.

Mr Alan,
When you change your socks, you can wear the old pair around your neck as you walk to help dry them. This is indeed, not stylish for fellows of the FL but a practical solution to drying socks.

 

[Mr. Godfrey]

Jack Wills

Hello chaps

Just saw this jacket in "Jack Wills" and thought it appropriate for the AGT

The downside is it's a fashion jacket and being designed for the young and trendy will not fit me.

http://www.jackwills.com/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductRef=003649&Option=003649863

 

[draws]

Here's a pair of museum/mint quality 1932 military officer's elastique breeches I've just listed on ebay. They are a bit small for me and I'm cleaning out my collection of breeches. I would love to see an FL member get these. They are also posted in the FL Classifieds:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230439093044&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

 

[Jerekson]

I got my WPG Akubra in a few weeks ago.

These were taken after beating it to a pulp the first time. It was STIFF.

 

[Speedbird]

Duke of Edinburgh Award advice

This year I will be undertaking Duke of Edinburgh Award; for those who aren't familiar with this it's a challenge with three stages (bronze, silver and gold) which is done by youths in the UK, with the Duke being the patron of it. The most important part is an expedition, which at gold level is four days and in my case in Dartmoor. The chances are that the biggest risk will be heavy rain (reducing visibility to a few metres I'm told) and hypothermia.

Here's the kit list: http://www.dofe.org/go/expeditionkit/ Reading through the debate on natural vs synthetic fibres I'm led to wonder what is best for me to use.

I have gortex walking boots which have always served me well so far, though the walking I've done in them has never been as challenging as Dartmoor is likely to be.

The poly-cotton trousers I have are fairly waterproof and very rapidly drying. Is a mixed cloth like this perhaps the best solution to the natural/synthetic fibre problem?

I usually wear pure cotton long sleeved shirts and woolen sweaters, which I guess should work OK. I have plastic overtrousers and a plastic waterproof which is completely unbreathable, but has the advantage of being completely waterproof and that I can take it off if I'm uncomfortable (plus there's no lining so water can't be absorbed on the inside).

The only other thing I'm unsure about is which hat to wear. I could buy myself a new Tilley, get another Akubra (perhaps a Banjo Patterson or a Riverina) or wear my tweed deerstalker. The last one appeals to me because I can take it off and put my hood up if it starts torrentially raining. However Akubras seem to be great hats, though I'm unsure if even they can survive for four days of potentially constant rain.

Could anyone with more outdoor experience than me advise me what's best and whether what I have works?

Dear Mr Alan

This is my first post in the Fedora Lounge .... and perhaps not the ideal debut post given the highest levels of expertise and knowledge evident in this particular thread and notably relevant other threads i.e. the historic hillwalking one .... but I felt moved and obliged to offer some advice as you requested!

The debate rages back and forth endlessly regarding natural versus synthetic materials for outdoor pursuits. This need not concern you with regard to the D of E Award Expedition. I am assuming you are either at school, in college, in the cadets or scouts or similiar and are undertaking D of E as an extra-curricular or adventure training activity. As such your organising leaders will be heavily governed by the dreaded Health and Safety Exectutive guidelines and rulings! As a post-16 college lecturer/manager with experience in leading educational trips, visits and outdoor activities I speak with some authority on this and so you can trust I speak with knowledge and expertise. I can tell you that you do not really have the choice to experiment with old school retro, vintage gear. I and others do have that choice (and of course so do you -but I mean for this trip), and more and more I find myself 'de-teching' myself and that is how I found this forum and thread in the first place and I have been totally inspired by Creeping Past, Belly Tank and others. But your D of E Expedition is not the place for you to 'go vintage'. Your leaders should ensure against your vintage urges unless they fancy going to jail on some negligence/failure in duty of care case if the worst should happen (rightly or wrongly, that's just the truth of it). You can exercise your choice to go vintage on your own terms in places and seasons you choose.

My advice is stick to your recommended kit list and make the most of the gear you already have.

Your Goretex boots will probably be fine - Goretex as described much earlier in this thread works as long as there is a sufficient temperature differential between inside and out (laws of physics though rather boring are immutable) - Dartmoor will ensure that temperature differential. Make sure they fit well and are in good condition and crucially, provide good support to your ankles.

Your polycotton trousers will be ideal - are they Craghoppers, Trespass, Regatta or similiar? If not, and if determined to be vaguely retro and not too plastic - British Army Lightweights or US BDU's are good. Avoid Dutch, German, Belgian army surplus heavyweight cotton, moleskin or denim - they are brilliant and have their place but not on Dartmoor. They are just too heavy and hold water too long. Wool gabardine, swedish mountain trousers, panzer trousers etc are probably ideal but I really wouldn't go there for this trip. Just wear a thermal base layer T-shirt and Long Johns under the polycotton - check out TK Maxx for both modern performance and all-natural/more-natural retro styles.

Your shirt and woolly jumper might be better replaced with polycotton fast drying shirts and mid-layer fleece - same sort of brands mentioned for trousers. If you have a Decathlon store near you their own brand Quechua stuff is brilliant and value for money. You can find nice looking safari style but more modern kit in their stock.

You need a good windproof/waterproof and crucially breathable outer layer. I would ditch your plastic non-breathable jacket and trousers - you can get a proper breathable jacket (again from Trespass, Decathlon or even TK Maxx) for not much money and like I say, Goretex or other brand will work on Dartmoor. Failing that, an old 68 pattern DPM British Combat Jacket (the lined one) or a US M-65 jacket and a military pattern Poncho will work well (the poncho keeps the rain off you and your backpack but allows air circulation so gets rid of the worst of the condensation - plus you can make an emergency bivvy - but in your case you don't really want DPM/Olive green - dayglo orange is really what you need - as you say, poor visibility is the norm on the 'moor! So that kind of rules out the combat jacket/poncho option).

Use good cushion sole socks as outers plus thinner inners - lycra and coolmax works well for inner socks and is a God sent modern invention for anyone who has to live and die by their feet! Take twice as many pairs as you think you need and change them whenever you can. Wear gaiters, up to your knees not WW2 anklets on Dartmoor. Cut your toenails properly before you go. Look after your feet and they will look after you.

As for the hat - the Akubra is cool and styling but will be a real pain in the arse on the always wet, windy and boggy Dartmoor. Likewise the Tilley. They won't work and will just get ruined. Your mates will rinse you mercilessy if you wear a Tweed Deerstalker - just don't even go there for this trip - get a woolly hat, something with thinsulate inside it, about £3 on the market and matching gloves - again if absolutely determined to be 1940's in spirit - get a capcomforter or Jeep cap from a surplus store. But really, why would you? For this specific trip, I mean.

Ok, that's my advice for clothing. Trust me, few people appreciate how hostile British weather is - everyone moans about the rain but basically because we don't generally have blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes and other nasties (although seemingly that is less true that it once was) people massively underestimate British weather. The fact is, and every British Infantryman who has passed through Catterick knows this, British weather will kill you given half a chance, even down in the soppy, soft south (and there are plenty of squaddies and ex-squaddies in this thread who will testify to the truth of this statement!). Dartmoor is not soft or soppy; it is a nasty, vicious and cunning ba***rd of a place - it is beautiful and wild and thrilling but it bites hard and shows no mercy to the ill-prepared.

Wind, rain and hypothermia and broken ankles are your greatest threat - protect against these and you will have a great trip!


Apologies to all for giving a lecture on my first post! Did I mention I love this thread and forum by the way?

 

[Speedbird]

D of E Exped

Just noticed you are going in July - everything I wrote above still applies but with any luck you won't need to be wearing all the layers all the time!

Edited: PS: On the off-chance you actually get hot sunny weather, Sunblock, shades & a squashable, packable sunhat will be useful and worth their weight - something like a Jungle or Boonie Hat in a neutral colour - personally, I rate Tilley's but they cost a lot of money and I wouldn't want to lose/ruin one on Dartmoor - save the good stuff for hot, dry places where it's extra quality will be noticeable. Take an extra waterbottle in your pack as well.

 

[Speedbird]

US rucksack

I'm thinking about getting rid of my WWII US Mountain Rucksack. I just picked up a French that fits my needs better, as well as saving towards a British Bergen (for reenactment). It's a nice piece, how rare are they? Anybody interested? It's in good shape, leather all decent. One repair made with a vintage piece of GI shirt.

I would be interested in this if still available?

Speedy

 

[BellyTank]

Welcome, Speedbird!

Sound advice there, from someone aware of the dangers.
Extended periods, 4 days in this case, in wet/cold, not something
to be ill-prepared for.

July might be nice, but you justdon't know what might hit you...
You must prepare for the worst possible conditions.
Get used to the idea that it will be wet and bone-chilling,
then you won't be under-equipped, or disappointed.

Dry and very cold weather, such as I am enjoying in Sweden,
is a totally different animal.

Mind how you go, Avedwards!


B
T