Stetson Vita-felt

[BanjoMerlin]

So, I see that vita-felt is 100% pure wool after all. I was right in my initial thought. That is the main thing I take away from this whole discussion. The rest, to me, is great historical information.

NO!!

Note the heading for that photo "Vita-Felt 3(or4?)" - that info is for the CURRENT production hats for sale in Europe. No question about their content.

That isn't the vita-felt process we're talking about.

 

[rlk]

So, I see that vita-felt is 100% pure wool after all. I was right in my initial thought. That is the main thing I take away from this whole discussion. The rest, to me, is great historical information.

As the previous correction has disappeared, please note that ONLY the last and current version of VitaFELT(Vita-Felt 3(4?)) is a Wool Felt Product and NOT the subject of discussion above.

 

[jimmy the lid]

I have been on the lookout for a very long time for a Stetson Vita-Felt, and have finally managed to acquire one. Given all the back and forth about these lids, I honestly didn't know what to expect. In fact, I was ready to be disappointed. To the contrary, I find this particular hat to have some beautiful felt -- an extremely nice Stetson.

As soon as I took this one out of the box, I had an immediate reaction in terms of which of my other lids it might compare to. My very first thought -- the Borsalino "Misto." Hard on its heels, the other lids that immediately came to mind were my Royal DeLuxe Stetson Casual and my Royal Stetson DeLuxe Flagship. The Vita-Felt on this lid is virtually identical in weight and thickness to the aforementioned lids. In particular, the thickness and weight of the felt matches that of a typical "heather" felt lid like the Misto or the Casual. In fact, the Vita-Felt is smoother than the Misto (as is the Casual). The Flagship is a tad thicker than the Vita-Felt, but very similar in terms of feel. For reference, both the Vita-Felt and the Flagship date to the mid-40's, and the Casual probably dates to the late 40's. Bottom line -- this felt has an exceptionally nice feel to it. The hat can be easily shaped by hand and hold any sort of crease.

In terms of specs, the open crown is 5 5/8", and the brim width is 2 5/8". The black ribbon is 1 1/2". The color of the felt is a light gray. The edge treatment is an underwelt -- the exact mirror image of the edge treatment on my Flagship (which Stetson later marketed as the "Wafer Edge"). I really like the three rows of stitching that show on the top of the brim as a result.

All in all -- an extremely nice, classic, mid-40's Stetson...

And here's a natural light shot:

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Lefty]

Thanks for the comparisons. As I wrote in my pm, my vita-felt is nearly indistinguishable from my Casual in terms of felt thickness, smoothness, and pliability. The difference for me is weight. The sweat in my vita-felt is thin, while the sweat in my casual is thick and heavy. Along with what seems to be a very thin liner in the vita-felt, I don't know if it's a result of lack of supplies due to the War, or Stetson intentionally making the hat lighter. It's got that Strat look, the hat that's always marketed as being lightweight.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks for the comparisons. As I wrote in my pm, my vita-felt is nearly indistinguishable from my Casual in terms of felt thickness, smoothness, and pliability. The difference for me is weight. The sweat in my vita-felt is thin, while the sweat in my casual is thick and heavy. Along with what seems to be a very thin liner in the vita-felt, I don't know if it's a result of lack of supplies due to the War, or Stetson intentionally making the hat lighter. It's got that Strat look, the hat that's always marketed as being lightweight.

I'm with you, Lefty -- the comparison to the Casual is dead-on in terms of the feel of the felt.

While I didn't happen to mention it, I should add that the liner on my Vita-Felt is also extremely lightweight and thin. Likewise, the sweat itself is also very thin -- yet surprisingly pliable and supple. These attributes of the liner and sweat in the Vita-Felt are pretty much an exact match to the liner and sweat in my Royal Stetson DeLuxe Flagship, which dates to the same timeframe.

As you note -- the sweat on the Casual is more substantial, and the Casual post-dates the Vita-Felt and the Flagship by at least a couple of years.

 

[billyspew]

I'm with you, Lefty -- the comparison to the Casual is dead-on in terms of the feel of the felt.

While I didn't happen to mention it, I should add that the liner on my Vita-Felt is also extremely lightweight and thin. Likewise, the sweat itself is also very thin -- yet surprisingly pliable and supple. These attributes of the liner and sweat in the Vita-Felt are pretty much an exact match to the liner and sweat in my Royal Stetson DeLuxe Flagship, which dates to the same timeframe.

As you note -- the sweat on the Casual is more substantial, and the Casual post-dates the Vita-Felt and the Flagship by at least a couple of years.

Jimmy, I did try to reply to your PM, but thought I'd post here.

To answer your direct question, no my Stetsonian only has Vita Felt mark on the liner, not on the sweat.

The hombugr on has it on the sweat, not on the liner:

The feel of the felt on the Stetsonian is soft, very luxourius feeling as both you and Lefty described them. The sweat gain is very thin (quite fragile).

The feel of the homburg is similar except that it is stiffer and thinner, but again the sweat is very thin.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Jimmy, I did try to reply to your PM, but thought I'd post here.

To answer your direct question, no my Stetsonian only has Vita Felt mark on the liner, not on the sweat.

The feel of the felt on the Stetsonian is soft, very luxourius feeling as both you and Lefty described them. The sweat gain is very thin (quite fragile).

The feel of the homburg is similar except that it is stiffer and thinner, but again the sweat is very thin.

Bill -- Apparently, my mailbox was full this morning, so thanks a million for posting your reply here.

Looks like your own assessment of Vita-Felt is also very positive.

Based on examples I have seen (including my own), I wonder if "Vita-Felt Process" on the sweat denotes a slightly earlier lid, whereas the inclusion of "Vita-Felt" on the liner only came a bit later on. [huh]

Cheers,
JtL

 

[John in Covina]

Last year I was in Vienna, Austria and stopped at a hat shop on the main drag. It was cold out and I had forgotten my hat at the hotel when I left. I found a stingy brim Stetson that was made of 'Vita-felt'. These were new hats and they had quite a few of them, so Stetson must still be making them.

To me, Stetson seems to have a loose relationship with terminology. They have a series of quality levels and terms related to them but it just seems that the specifications may change over time for the same 'rating term.' If it was actually a new production hat, I doubt they revived the program, just the name.

 

[Lefty]

Obsessively browsing Google's Advanced Patent Search, I came across this one from 1943. Here, Stetson is assigned the patent on a new process for manufacturing felt hats.

Vita-Felt, of course, was being used in commerce well before '43 (July 30, 1940), so it's important to note that this patent references a previous application by the assignee, made December 29, 1941. This is still nearly a year and a half after the first appearance of Vita-Felt, and I have been unable to find this application, which might also reference previous applications and/or patents.

The aspect of the patent that provides a possible connection with Vita-Felt is the specific language used as to other "objects and advantages" of the process being patented. As has been noted in this thread, Vita-Felt was introduced as a response to the shortage of imported hats, primarily Bosalinos, caused by the War. Much of the Vita-Felt advertising makes a point of the springy felt with a resilient, come-back texture. Compare these advertised claims with the language of the benefits conferred upon hats manufactured using the process described in the patent:

Discussing this matter with JtL, he hit upon the issue of price. Vita-Felt was not introduced at a cheaper price-point. Instead, it was at $10 - more expensive than many other Stetson offerings. Yet, one of the chief benefits of the process in the patent is to conserve material (fur) by changing the order and manner of manufacturing processes.

I believe that the the price just goes with the cost of "new" and "springy" felt. Just because Stetson was going to save money by this new process, didn't mean that the consumer got to do the same. As with many products that are "new", "revolutionary", and the like, the consumer pays a premium to obtain the new, hip, and current goods. Plus, while I haven't looked at Borso prices at the time and even if Vita-Felts were a few dollars more, someone who wanted that Borso feel, and thought Vita-Felt might fit the bill, may have been willing to pay a small premium. Finally, the Hatters' Highlights [Stetson's internal newsletter] I've got say that Stetson was still turning pretty great profits during the War, likely by saving on production costs without decreasing their prices.

This isn't a decisive statement that the patent posted is the Vita-Felt process, but it is a patent describing a new process for felt manufacture that would achieve the very benefits for which Vita-Felt was touted. Having searched high and low for any connection between Casein or Aralac (or the several names under which it was marketed) and Stetson, I have found none, other than the case cited above. Every other connection between a milk based felt-filler and hats is a connection with the names under the Hat Corporation of America. Among these competing theories, I believe it to be far more likely that Vita-Felt is the result of a new process of manufacture covered by this patent, a process which certainly may have been employed well after the logo for Vita-Felt disappeared from hats, as a standard method of production.

 

[rlk]

It is a blocking alternative process with labor/cost and finish quality benefits, unrelated to any particular felt composition. The Cavanagh Patent of 1939 also employs heat and pressure but has a cloth roller finishing as well.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks for sharing this research, Lefty. :eusa_clap

Obviously, it's virtually impossible to pin down the true Vita-Felt story -- but, the patent you have found makes a very compelling case. The very qualities touted by Stetson vis-a-vis Vita-Felt are at the core of the patent: namely, the resiliency of the felt, coupled with the feel of the finest furs. These would be the very qualities that would fit the bill in terms of offering hats to replace the imports -- like Borsalino -- that were no longer available due to the war. And, I agree with you -- if you're going to compare Vita-Felt lids to the finest imports, it makes sense to price those lids at a premium.

Very interesting find!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Lefty]

It is a blocking alternative process with labor/cost and finish quality benefits, unrelated to any particular felt composition. The Cavanagh Patent of 1939 also employs heat and pressure but has a cloth roller finishing as well.

That's exactly my point: the felt isn't made of anything different, it's just made differently, yielding the benefit of a felt more like the import hats whose customers they were targeting.

 

[rlk]

Here's the machine for it -patent applied for 1935.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=OGxOAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.google.com/patents?id=A6...urce=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

1936
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Z4...urce=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Lefty]

ebay snags

 

[John in Covina]

That one's sure a beauty.

 

[Felt and Straw]

That one's sure a beauty.

Thanks Gents. I'll let you know what its like when it shows up in the next couple of days...

 

[Felt and Straw]

ebay snags

It arrived and it is my first vita-felt. I'll post some pictures soon, but I note that the bottom pic is closest in color. The felt is different than any of my other hats. Thinner, on the crown in particular it almost feels like tissue paper its that thin and soft. Makes me curious to feel a zypher or even lighter weight. Very interesting to me.
I'm having a hard time with the liner (and will look for help in the liner field guide thread) since the liner shows the deluxe below stetson rather than before it.

Fortunately it doesn't smell like sour milk...

 

[Lefty]

Easter sales push, 1944

more ebay grabs

 

[John in Covina]

more ebay grabs

That is one swell lookin' lid!

 

[SteveAS]

I just received this navy/burgundy Diplomat in superb condition. The colors of both the felt and the ribbon are richer than in the photos. The felt is nice, but it's neither particularly thin nor particularly easily molded. I'm thinking this hat is from the 1940s, but would welcome corrections.


With flash:

Without flash:

Interesting edge treatment:

Interior shots: