So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[Twitch]

Samsa- thanks for going back in time and checking out the currents of conversation 5 years ago so people can't say, "well, back in the good old days everybody talked about ONLY vintage stuff." It's funny that people want to remember times gone by colored with their own perception. Trouble is that then it becomes a warped fantasy.

Like you I don't understand why people are complaining about non-vintage topics being discussed in the Observation Lounge- the exact place they historically have been. I would agree that the "Hat" heading is no place to ramble on about a great weekend had in Virginia at the Indian casino and the "Golden Era" is inappropriate to discuss movies in general even considering some may have been made in that era.

Actually I don't see that many topics begun in alien headings. Ones that are seem to be moved by the moderators so what really is the problem? It seems to continually return to people lamenting what they conveniently recall the Lounge to have been in the past and that they don't want others to discuss non-vintage topics.

As you mention Samsa, most of us are interested in certain aspects of vintage articles. After I posted "yea I bought this hat!" and several others say, "yea it looks cool," just what the hell is else is there to talk about concerning that hat? I never mistook the FL as a radical, hardcore, seperatist movement championing the return to life wearing vintage clothes and living with only era furniture, tools and appliances in some lost world scenario with a David Koresh copy preaching the ONLY way to salvation is by a return to a vintage lifestyle.

After all no one who peruses the non-vintage topics are attempting to lure, cajole or in any way deviate the paths of those seeking to discuss only vintage topics. If people wish to discuss more vintage things then they should perhaps begin some threads that might intersest others instead of actively lobbying for a ban on non-vintage discussion.[huh]

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I honestly expected this thread to be a big round of collective back slapping about how awesome we all are because omg we're classy and wear great clothes. It seems that's maybe not what this thread is about, but I honestly can't bring myself to sift back through the 7 previous pages of chatter.

Ain't you glad that's what it aint!

What annoys me about this place, in addition to what Miss Bella just pointed out, is our collective need to pick scapegoats. It's been happening ever since I joined this forum. First it was Rafter, then Jovan, now CharlesB - there's always someone, and it's almost always the gents who are doing it. This is the first board I've ever been on where the women weren't the catty ones - this stuff almost never happens in the PR, which is why I'm pretty much happy to stay there.

I can't see that CharlesB is being made a scapegoat in any way shape or form. I know there were issues with Jovan from some members, mostly carrying over from another forum or multiple other fora. Rafter, i believe, made a lot of problems for himself.

What makes me sick is the constant talk about how good our manners are and how classy we are, when in fact this place is pretty much like any other forum I've been on - just without the outright rudeness and flamewars. It's more veiled by fancy, carefully chosen yet ever cutting words, better clothes, and claims of class. In the end, we're all just people, with the same faults we criticize others for... and this is just the Internet.

I don't quite see the issue (but it does raise another related issue which i'll get to presently). If the outright rudeness isn't there, and the flaming isn't there, surely this is a good thing? "fancy, carefully chosen, yet ever cutting words". Not quite sure what you mean. This is not, and never was, a place where people would get away with hogwash. And it was certainly never a place where one had to tread softly around because someone is way over sensitive. But it certainly is a place where outright put-downs without provocation (an important point because if you provoke something you deserve the consequences) are not permitted and will generally be edited forthwith. Manners and politeness do not preclude someone being told that what they've said is wrong. There may be instances of over stepping of lines, but they're isolated from what i can see (BK, I'm just taking out a specific citation here for two reasons: first, why single out any one or two people?, and secondly, one of these folks is no longer here to see, inquire, or defend themselves on the basis of it. I know what you said was stated just as an example and not for any other reason. Feel free to PM me to discuss further. -HJ).

bk

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Baron, I think the way you see the Lounge is very different from the way some others see it (which is natural when there are so many kinds of people on the board). There is agreement with what Kitty has said, as you'll notice, and I find that there is, in fact, hyper sensitivity that results in deletions now and then.

My suggestions to the powers that be have been to stop general membership and make membership invite only, but I was told that that would curtail new membership. Well, the new membership is what's changing the Lounge. I also suggested one bartender per forum and less power to delete postings. If we aren't going to change membership rules, and we want the Lounge to change, then it's gonna have to be management.

 

[PolkaDotMeggie]

How would someone then join? Would they contact a particular bartender and undergo a grace period of a certain number of months or posts. And then if they don't seem to fit or are causing issues, then the Lounge would have the right to remove the membership? I see your train of thought. Would you elaborate more for us?

 

[HungaryTom]

I

I promise to keep a low profile

 

[Jovan]

i've quietly observed this thread until now. just stepping in to say i agree with everything kitty has said here.

Seconded.

The only time this place irritates me is when :

1) the moderators trim posts based on their personal dislike of a person (rather than that person's general disruption of a board);
2) the moderators step out of line and then delete posts without an apology in order to change history.

The OT posts, I just stay out of; this one included up till now (ok, maybe it's not OT, whatever). The navel gazing tends not to accomplish anything on the internets.

Saw numero dos happen just recently.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

How would someone then join? Would they contact a particular bartender and undergo a grace period of a certain number of months or posts. And then if they don't seem to fit or are causing issues, then the Lounge would have the right to remove the membership? I see your train of thought. Would you elaborate more for us?

I was thinking, by referral only. So, either friends, or friends of friends, etc. If someone wants to join, they contact the friend, who contacts the Lounge, like Livejournal used to do. Actually, Livejournal generated X number of membership invite codes per member, generated based on participation and whether or not the member paid.

And then we could also get rid of the requirement of having to have Outlook.

Seems to me bartenders have the right to remove membership anyway!

 

[PolkaDotMeggie]

I see what you are talking about. I am not familiar with how MySpace/LiveJournal work, but I understand what you are getting at.

I wonder how well that would work? Well it is something to think about anyway!

 

[reetpleat]

Baron, I think the way you see the Lounge is very different from the way some others see it (which is natural when there are so many kinds of people on the board). There is agreement with what Kitty has said, as you'll notice, and I find that there is, in fact, hyper sensitivity that results in deletions now and then.

My suggestions to the powers that be have been to stop general membership and make membership invite only, but I was told that that would curtail new membership. Well, the new membership is what's changing the Lounge. I also suggested one bartender per forum and less power to delete postings. If we aren't going to change membership rules, and we want the Lounge to change, then it's gonna have to be management.

When I ebay and sell somethign to an obvious appreciator, I always encourage them to check us out.

I love the fact that so many people come in by searching specific topics and stay to chat.

I hate the idea that this would be a special club where only friends of friends would ever know about it or be able to join. That seems to be the opposite of what we are about. We are about welcoming and encouraging, not being a special club for ourselves and our friends. to pharaphrase Groucho, I would not want to belong to a club who would only have me for a member if I knew the right people.

 

[ShooShooBaby]

another idea could be to have new members go through a "grace period" of whatever amount of weeks or months before they can start a new thread. the point would be so they could get to know the "culture" of the FL. on some message boards no one minds the constant starting of random new threads, so maybe people come here not knowing that's frowned upon. a grace period before newbies can start threads would help them understand this.

 

[reetpleat]

Ok, I get it; I got some teamster friends, and know how they talk: rough and tumble, shoot from the hip. Cool. Now that I know that we can talk straight.

But you know, man, ya might want to post here a bit more diplomatically, I doubt that there are many teamsters here; and that kind of language is off putting to many who otherwise might want to communicate with you.

But then again maybe that's the way you want it. I know that's the way I feel sometimes: I just want to make my point which I know will be provocative to some. not want any replies and just move on. And that is what I'm going to do. See ya.

don't ever forgetthat on line, infledction, expression, previous friendship and a locally accepted way of speaking do not translate well in text. I suggest eveyone always up the politeness quotient anytime they post or e-mail. It will save them a lot of grief when people do not take their words as they wre intended.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

When I ebay and sell somethign to an obvious appreciator, I always encourage them to check us out.

I love the fact that so many people come in by searching specific topics and stay to chat.

I hate the idea that this would be a special club where only friends of friends would ever know about it or be able to join. That seems to be the opposite of what we are about. We are about welcoming and encouraging, not being a special club for ourselves and our friends. to pharaphrase Groucho, I would not want to belong to a club who would only have me for a member if I knew the right people.

Well, the idea would be that those types of people would be the kinds of people you would invite, and they would get membership based on your rec.

 

[dr greg]

my two-bob's worth

I don't think it's changed that much since I joined, and the show-and-tell aspect of it is fun: you learn from just looking, about prices styles etc etc, and there is the added bonus of like minded people (to some extent, I've balked at some political opinions aired here a while back),you can share info with or actually trade with on trust, which I have very successfully done on occasion as my recent post on the subject amply illustrates.
Everything changes or else it must by definition stagnate.
On the subject of politics again, I just found a WW2 edition of Hayek's Road to Serfdom in excellent nick, anybody interested?

 

[reetpleat]

Well, the idea would be that those types of people would be the kinds of people you would invite, and they would get membership based on your rec.

Quite frankly, I can't believe people are actually proposing this. No offense, you certainly have aright to your ideas as to how to make this a good place.

But let's be honest here. How many people would not even be here if we did nto do a random search on google and end up with a local watering spot.

I for one, while I know a one or two members from the past, woud not be here. Who else?

 

[PolkaDotMeggie]

I agree with Shoo.

Reet, I think that has a lot to do with the problem. People are misunderstanding or taking offence to something that was maybe not intended to be hurtful.

The more I read this, the more I see a division in what people are thinking/feeling. The bottom point: we all need to take care when it comes to posting and really decide whether or not something is worth the time and effort to post. Secondly, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Now we're getting some where...

I think some folks are born to teach others, and do it for the love of passing on knowledge, never knowing when a bit of shared info is going to make a big difference somewhere along the way. So let me call on long term members (or long-term collectors who may be new here) to keep sharing what they know, teaching when they can, and learning themselves. Crowds fluctuate and change, the audience is always new, the classroom freshening itself with new students every day. Keep sharing...

Our blessing and our curse is that we have been awfully, awfully lucky to have several extraordinary teachers! When they grow bored and silent, we all feel the loss first, and maybe belatedly realize that what they do is difficult and time consuming, and that we were lucky to have their input at all. Of course, there are new teachers coming along too. and lots of new students.

Scot, that was a main reason why I turned in my towel as a bartender. I love to contribute something meaningful to a place like this and I found myself just barely treading water with my admin duties. NOW, as my life returns to some semblance of normal (February is the month from hell in my business) it is my intent to resume trying to add content to the WWII forum (which you and dear Paddy tend). I've been really digging into some interesting topics, including the Air Sea Rescue Service (both USAAF and RAF) and reading lots of interesting books. I pledge to return to MY roots at least and contribute content. Cheers to you and the team! -- Fred H.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Quite frankly, I can't believe people are actually proposing this. No offense, you certainly have aright to your ideas as to how to make this a good place.

Actually, I don't think it's a good idea. But it is a solution to the "problem."

 

[Senator Jack]

Yipes! Haven't really been around here for a while and this is what I come back to.

 

[JazzBaby]

What annoys me about this place, in addition to what Miss Bella just pointed out, is our collective need to pick scapegoats. It's been happening ever since I joined this forum. First it was Rafter, then Jovan, now CharlesB

Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed this... But I think the thread about off topic posting just got peoples backs up a little and tensions are running a bit high right now. The only thing that I really feel strongly about at the moment is the way a few of the bartenders (not all of them, mind) have reacted so rudely to so-called 'fluff' posts in cases where a simple 'off topic' would have sufficed. Then they get their feathers all ruffled in other threads talking about politeness... [huh]

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I think the idea of having very new members unable to start threads until they have been around for a certain amount of time is a good one. Sort of an induction period. But I have no idea how or even if that can be implemented.

I have been here a couple of years and I am still very reluctant to start threads. It always amazes me when you see newbies starting thread after thread...I mean, I wouldn't jump into an established group and start random conversations willy nilly, without knowing a bit more about the group, and them getting to know me a bit first.