So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[Smithy]

[QUOTE="Doc" Devereux]All groups have hierarchies. What you are talking about is an informal collection of friends. While everyone here tries, on the whole, to be polite to one one another, it does not automatically follow that we are all friends. I have a few friends here, and a number of acquaintances with whom I enjoy talking. The rest of the Lounge's membership are effectively strangers to me, and how I behave around strangers is therefore the level at which I set my behaviour. I would sooner avoid upsetting a stranger and sending them away before they had a chance to know me than relax into full salty talk and think to hell with what others consider appropriate.

Most of the Lounge is, after all, a publicly-accessible resource. We are thus speaking openly in public. Less refined language is something I save for PMs.[/QUOTE]

Hear hear Doc, very well said and my sentiments as well.

 

[KittyT]

For example, if my 20 yr old corner gas station attendant tells me that we are heading for a recession, I look at his position, evaluate his experience , and form an opinion as to how much value to place on his words. If Alan Greenspan says the same words I would follow the same procedure, but who's opinion do you think I would put the most faith in?

Of course, but this is a whole other can of worms. How do you know your 20 year old gas station attendant isn't an economics student, or the son of an econ professor who engages his family in deep economic discussion every night at the dinner table? If you heard Mick Jagger talk about a recession, you would probably roll your eyes... unless you knew that he has an advanced degree from the London School of Economics. Yes, you are forming your opinions based one what you see of that person... but only based on what you can see, and what your *assumptions* are of that person, when in reality, you don't know anything about them.

People do this all the time with my boyfriend - in fact my mother did it too. They see a guy with greased hair, a vintage bomber jacket and rolled up jeans and associate him with a 50s delinquent and not with someone who has an intimate, inside knowledge of politics and the running of political campaigns. Yes, we all make snap judgments based on our first impressions but it's a good thing to try to steer clear of once you realize that someone really may just know what they're talking about.

You may create the definition of the word "peer" any way you choose, but that doesn't make it a reality to anyone except yourself.

Yes, but just remember that the same goes for YOUR definition of "peer"

 

[Art Fawcett]

Agreed Surely, I am not and have not favored restrictions based on "newness" to the Lounge. I believe that was said by others and I personally love to see new energies come into the group. Who knows, I may learn alot from their words or opinions that I hadn't considered before or explored before. One of the joys of life is learning, hoping it never stops.

 

["Doc" Devereux]

If you heard Mick Jagger talk about a recession, you would probably roll your eyes... unless you knew that he has an advanced degree from the London School of Economics.

Forgive me for mentioning it, but that information appears to be inaccurate: I was under the impression that he didn't finish his course. This isn't to say that his interest in accounting and finance (the course he studied) isn't as strong today as it's ever been, I just wanted to clarify your point.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Yes, but just remember that the same goes for YOUR definition of "peer"

You've already cited mine in one of your posts Kitty. I believe you extracted it from the dictionary.

OK, I can see now that you intend to hold on to your opinions unchanged by my pitiful attempt to communicate so let's just agree to disagree. I keep trying to point to "group" concepts and what I see as human tendencies with no apparent effect. Clearly, I'm not up to the task.

 

[pigeon toe]

Regardless of whether we consider ourselves peers or not, I just hope everyone here doesn't judge other's based on their age. We have such a diverse range of ages here, which I think is wonderful.

I would hate if someone were to think that what I had to say was frivolous just because I'm 20. Similarly, I'm sure a 50 year old here would hate it if I thought what they said was "uncool" because of their age. Not saying that that is something I often see here, but the reality is that there are a lot of stereotypes regarding age, and I hope we can all rise above those.

 

[KittyT]

under the impression[/URL] that he didn't finish his course. This isn't to say that his interest in accounting and finance (the course he studied) isn't as strong today as it's ever been, I just wanted to clarify your point.

No worries, and I'll admit I was wrong on this one. Thank you for the correction!

But the point is still there. There are many other examples. If Greg Graffin from Bad Religion came up to you and started talking about biology, you'd probably be like "what the hell does this punk rocker know about anything?" until you found out he has a PhD in evolutionary biology from Cornell. Same goes for a number of punk rockers and rock and rollers who were well-studied in classical music before becoming stars. My point still stands that we are all too hasty to make judgments based on our first impression of others.

 

["Doc" Devereux]

But the point is still there. There are many other examples. If Greg Graffin from Bad Religion came up to you and started talking about biology, you'd probably be like "what the hell does this punk rocker know about anything?" until you found out he has a PhD in evolutionary biology from Cornell. Same goes for a number of punk rockers and rock and rollers who were well-studied in classical music before becoming stars. My point still stands that we are all too hasty to make judgments based on our first impression of others.

I'm not disputing the point, although I would extend it to include the idea that just because two people have a particular interest in common it might not be wise for one of them to assume that it's appropriate to kick back as though the other was friend. I would suggest that if one is having a conversation with someone who is a friend in a public place, ones language might be somewhat different to that which might be used if the same conversation were held in private.

 

[reetpleat]

Agreed Surely, I am not and have not favored restrictions based on "newness" to the Lounge. I believe that was said by others and I personally love to see new energies come into the group. Who knows, I may learn alot from their words or opinions that I hadn't considered before or explored before. One of the joys of life is learning, hoping it never stops.

Hi Art, I agree, and while your analogy of the gas attendant holds some water, I am sure you also realize that when your attendant tells you he has seen the price of gas go up rapidly, his wife just got laid off, and his boss cut his hours, you might take his experience and find valuable information about the economy.

Likewise, the newest, ignorant newbie might post photos of a hat you have never seen before that he just found at a garage sale. It might be a piece of information you have never seen before. I am sure you realize that. i just liked the idea of making that leap as an example.

 

[Roger]

Why are we continually asking ourselves this every couple months? In the fall there were complaints about "guns" and "hunting" now it's "dating service" What the heck? Who is doing all the complaining. I've got no axe to grind.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Hi Art, I agree, and while your analogy of the gas attendant holds some water, I am sure you also realize that when your attendant tells you he has seen the price of gas go up rapidly, his wife just got laid off, and his boss cut his hours, you might take his experience and find valuable information about the economy.

Likewise, the newest, ignorant newbie might post photos of a hat you have never seen before that he just found at a garage sale. It might be a piece of information you have never seen before. I am sure you realize that. i just liked the idea of making that leap as an example

No disagreement here Reetpleat, you got my point exactly. As referring to the station attendent, you are absolutely right, I would take all info into consideration before weighing my opinion. I must admit though, with Greenspan's experience of running the "Fed" and spending a lifetime of studying the trends, I would hold his words and opinions in higher regard automatically, then judge the attendant's words against that backdrop.

Good analogy on the "new hat" ... I never pretend to have seen it all.. slap me if I ever sound that way!!

 

[Paisley]

I like the high standards of the FL. If we were living in a very decorous age, I might agree with KittyT that we might benefit from loosening up. Even I tell dirty jokes and listen to blue songs. But we live in a crass age with little subtlety. If we wanted to loosen up, we could turn on the TV, listen to the radio, talk to coworkers, or go to, oh, about a million different web sites. But if we don't like the constant crudeness, there aren't may other places to go that I know of.

 

[KittyT]

I like the high standards of the FL. If we were living in a very decorous age, I might agree with KittyT that we might benefit from loosening up. Even I tell dirty jokes and listen to blue songs. But we live in a crass age with little subtlety. If we wanted to loosen up, we could turn on the TV, listen to the radio, talk to coworkers, or go to, oh, about a million different web sites. But if we don't like the constant crudeness, there aren't may other places to go that I know of.

Oh, I agree, but I'd like to assert that one can loosen up without dropping all the way to crude. There is some pretty big wiggle room between formality and crudeness.

 

[surely]

hey KittyT, will ya please let go of my toe!

 

[Nathan Flowers]

First of all, thank you all for your constructive suggestions. We're especially appreciative of the time that each of you spent on adding your thoughts. I think it shows that you all feel the same as we Bartenders do-- we all want the Lounge to be a welcoming, informative place for all members.

For now, we're going to close the thread, so we can carefully consider what everybody has said here. If you have any further concerns, I invite you to PM me via the system.

Many thanks.