So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[KittyT]

I view this forum as a type of school. It's sad that the Faculty and Upper Class -men view the freshman as bothersome because they are trying to learn...

Yes, but part of learning is taking the initiative to find the answer yourself when it has already been provided for you.

When you come into a forum with many, many pages of information on any given topic, why would you immediately ask a question before reading through the information that's already there? That's just obnoxious.

 

[Tomasso]

If it is bothersome to older members, then perhaps they should consider moving on ...

I view this forum as a type of school. It's sad that the Faculty and Upper Class -men view the freshman as bothersome because they are trying to learn...

Would it be wrong to ask newbies to use the FL archives as a sort of primer to help get them up to speed?

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I cannot describe strongly enough how much I disagree with this proposal. (Actually I can, but decorum prevents me from doing so.)

Well, considering you have only been here 2 months, I'd be surprised if you agreed.

KittyT explained the reasoning behind my statement. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a topic on almost any area of Ladies' vintage dressing or beauty that a newbie to vintage dessing would be interested in that hasn't already been covered, or at least touched on. Yet, again and again, new threads crop up asking questions, the answers to which can easily be found with a 2 second search.

I am not talking about brand new ideas for threads. Is it so much to ask that a person participates for 50 or 100 posts before launching into questions??

 

[Paisley]

Maybe a sticky on "Great beauty threads of all time" in the Powder Room would help avoid the same-old, same-old questions.

 

["Doc" Devereux]

Yet, again and again, new threads crop up asking questions, the answers to which can easily be found with a 2 second search.

Fleur's quite right here: I've answered two such threads this afternoon myself by referring them to active threads covering exactly the subjects asked about. In one case the thread had been updated less than 40 minutes earlier, in the other I typed a one-word search into the quick window at the top of the page.

Edited to add:

The FL front page has a link to a thread which only holds one post: the FAQ. Might I suggested that the O-Bar sticky "How to use Google to search the Fedora Lounge" is moved or mirrored there, as it's a more obvious place to find such a useful piece of information?

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Mac & cheese. That's what the Fedora Lounge is all about. Hell, that's what LIFE is all about! A good mac & cheese.

 

[ShortClara]

I like this... personal responsibility. Very, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

I will be with you here... I will try to limit my posts to ones that stimulate knowledge than personal opinion.

Why? I've gathered a great deal of insight from people's personal opinions here... I like to think about things in a different way. Who's to say that your personal opinion doesn't stimulate my knowledge? If this turns into a place where we are only "allowed" to say "That dress has an 11 inch metal back zipper that I would date to approximately 1943 and I appreciate it because it is from the Golden Era as I am allowed to do" instead of "Amazing dress! I think a cut like that is so flattering to a lady who has wide hips." then I'm leaving. Yes, I like the academic discussions, but I'm not going to be told what I'm allowed to say (within the confines of politeness) by anyone other than the owner (or his subordinates). We can only control ourselves. He has the right to regulate his playground. I hate to see great, witty and interesting people cowed and shamed for being great, witty and interesting because they don't do it "correctly".

Perhaps I'm being too emotional about this. Could be. I do think many of these issues don't come up in the Powder Room. Maybe I'm naive!

 

[KittyT]

Would it be wrong to ask newbies to use the FL archives as a sort of primer to help get them up to speed?

No, it wouldn't, but I would liken it to trying to herd cats. So many people just can't be bothered. For example, a particular lady in the PR kept posting repeat threads and questions that had already been answered, and she was gently guided on numerous occasions, by regular members and bartenders alike, to search for the answers before posting, as every single topic she started had already been addressed. Her response was basically the same as "I'm too lazy and can't be bothered, so I'm just going to put the burden on you all instead". Then she would get annoyed when people became curt with her for asking for the answers to questions that she knew were already out there.

 

[scotrace]

I would think a new member would find it very frustrating to post a question, say, "What is proper hat etiquette?" and get either no responses or maybe one or two.

The members themselves are the best enforcers. Often they've already posted links to previous threads before a bartender can get there.

 

[Paisley]

Keep in mind that some forums don't retain old threads. If that's what you're used to, you probably won't bother to look.

No matter how many rules you make, it won't keep a few people from being obnoxious. I suspect that anyone inclined to start a lot of unnecessary new threads would also make a lot of pointless posts, and get to 50 or 100 posts pretty quickly.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Hi Folks,

I have been following this and several other related threads for the past several days, but I'm still not sure if I understand what's wrong with the Lounge that we are seeking to correct. After reading Scott's post Monday, I was under the impression that "the problem" with the Lounge is that the quality of posts, especially with respect to useful information imparted, has markedly declined. But now I'm not sure that this is an accurate statement of the central issue. After reading through these several threads, I'm seeing that perhaps "the problem" may (also) be more about manners between members, old-timers vs. newbies, vintage vs. current interest, fluff, getting-to-know-you posts and a host of other things. So now I'm confused. Again.

My grandfather was fond of saying that a problem well defined is more than half solved. Can someone here please help me by stating, hopefully in a single thought, what is "the problem" with the Fedora Lounge?

Atticus

 

[LolitaHaze]

Why? I've gathered a great deal of insight from people's personal opinions here... I like to think about things in a different way. Who's to say that your personal opinion doesn't stimulate my knowledge? If this turns into a place where we are only "allowed" to say "That dress has an 11 inch metal back zipper that I would date to approximately 1943 and I appreciate it because it is from the Golden Era as I am allowed to do" instead of "Amazing dress! I think a cut like that is so flattering to a lady who has wide hips." then I'm leaving. Yes, I like the academic discussions, but I'm not going to be told what I'm allowed to say (within the confines of politeness) by anyone other than the owner (or his subordinates). We can only control ourselves. He has the right to regulate his playground. I hate to see great, witty and interesting people cowed and shamed for being great, witty and interesting because they don't do it "correctly".

Perhaps I'm being too emotional about this. Could be. I do think many of these issues don't come up in the Powder Room. Maybe I'm naive!

Oh I don't mean opinions in the sense that they have something to offer in an informative way. For example, my posting, I like that dress, but I think a red belt would match better than that brown one you chose. To me, that opinion is informative. I am talking more along the lines of What is your favourite sandwich. No one is really going to learn anything from my liking roastbeef, provolone with bacon and mayo only -- other than that I am a finicky eater. My thought is that they can't imply it to their own lives then what is the point? Even if it is a simple opinion such as, nice dress, it does supply encouragment to the poster. Which I feel is informative on it's own.

I mean if I stopped posting ALL of my opinions that would mean that I couldn't post in the hair thread and then I couldn't post at all. Another place that I like to post in (it not really being a study based thread) is the Ladies of the Lounge thread. I enjoy reading that thread and posting in that thread because people can see examples of people living a vintage or vintage inspired lifestyle and while the clothes/stylings are chosen by personal opinion, I still think they can teach people who learn visually, like me.

I hope this makes sense. I just want to start self regulating from my pointless postings taht people can't benefit from. Heck, half the time things I post in the "fluff" threads are over looked anyway.

 

[scotrace]

Can someone here please help me by stating, hopefully in a single thought, what is "the problem" with the Fedora Lounge?

Exec #2: Yeah, I've had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.
Exec #3: What was that about hats again?
Exec #2: Oh, Uh... people aren't wearing enough.
Exec #1: Is this true?
Exec #4: Certainly. Hat sales have increased but not pari passu, as our research...
Exec #3: [Interrupting] "Not wearing enough"? enough for what purpose?
Exec #5: Can I just ask, with reference to your second point, when you say souls don't develop because people become distracted...
[looking out window]
Exec #5: Has anyone noticed that building there before?

Sorry....

 

[Atticus Finch]

Exec #2: Yeah, I've had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.
Exec #3: What was that about hats again?
Exec #2: Oh, Uh... people aren't wearing enough.
Exec #1: Is this true?
Exec #4: Certainly. Hat sales have increased but not pari passu, as our research...
Exec #3: [Interrupting] "Not wearing enough"? enough for what purpose?
Exec #5: Can I just ask, with reference to your second point, when you say souls don't develop because people become distracted...
[looking out window]
Exec #5: Has anyone noticed that building there before?

Sorry....

Got it!

 

[Art Fawcett]

Can someone here please help me by stating, hopefully in a single thought, what is "the problem" with the Fedora Lounge?

Boy Atticus, I thought I could at the beginning of this thread but with this many posts and this much passion I'm not sure anymore myself.

The initial thought that the Lounge has been evolving from an informative, educational (in a social atmosphere) "club" that focuses on Golden Era and all that that entails to something that is becoming clouded in concept.

We have new members starting threads like "Goodnight FL" because they were going to sleep after being up 30 hours. When I first saw it my reaction was "What?" Wouldn't this be better served on a blog?

We also have new members that don't take the time to get a feel for the place and when edited for content or reasons the Bartender sees as not in keeping with policy, respond with the "facist", "draconian", " I have first amendment rights" type arguments that rarely hold water. trust me, this gets very old very quickly.

Speaking only for myself, my time is limited for chasing down unruly threads, editing ugly comments, or trying to make peace with long explanations to some that only are here to argue. We ALL ( bartenders) are volunteers because we love this place and feel some ownership in how it goes. In that regard we also have MANY MANY members that feel the same way, or this would have been a much shorter thread.

To address the copyright statement below and the 15 post rule please know that it is/was directed at only one party to my knowledge. There is a particularly hateful vendor out there that has been and apparently still IS stealing pics and threads from the Lounge, posting the entire or severely redacted copy ( edited to fit his particular rant) of the threads or posts, then using them to renounce, ridicule, or outright slander the Lounge and it's members. I cannot name this vendor publicly as that would be against policy set out by MK. These violations are being archived for future consideration so I will leave it at that.

The 15 post rule also applies because this vendor did, and apparently still DOES PM members ridiculing their words or more specifically targets clients of mine for their choice in hatters. His pattern was to set up fake accounts, then immediately start the PMs. He now claims as many as 5 accounts but has kept a low enough profile to be invisible.

I hope this make it more clear to you and other members Atticus. I'm personally not in favor of more restrictions on "newbies" or any other member for that matter. I WOULD ask members to consider their words and threads started to see if it really adds anything to the Lounge or is it just a personal thought that would be better served on their own blog. I am co- responsible for only the General Attire section so it doesn't affect me as much as the OB but it still becomes tedious. If I were asked to BTend the OB, I'd have to resign.

 

[KittyT]

We also have new members that don't take the time to get a feel for the place and when edited for content or reasons the Bartender sees as not in keeping with policy, respond with the "facist", "draconian", " I have first amendment rights" type arguments that rarely hold water. trust me, this gets very old very quickly.

The unfortunate thing here is that new members are not the only ones who feel that things can be too heavily censored here.

 

[Vintage Betty]

Deadpandiva: Let's see if I can help you regarding your earlier post. I'll PM you.

Yes, but part of learning is taking the initiative to find the answer yourself when it has already been provided for you.

When you come into a forum with many, many pages of information on any given topic, why would you immediately ask a question before reading through the information that's already there? That's just obnoxious.

And....

--snipped--Is it so much to ask that a person participates for 50 or 100 posts before launching into questions??

:eusa_doh:
I'll be the first to admit: I was absolutely clueless :arated: that I was supposed to look in the archives first before asking my questions as a newcomer to the Lounge. I simply didn't know NOT to ask, and simply didn't know NOT to dive in.

While I've been an active participant in email discussion groups, this is really the first online discussion board where I've posted regularly, so concepts like lurking and waiting to find out the lay of the land were unknown to me. (Yes, I'm really that clueless).

Having said that, I would have found it useful to have received a little welcome with a few tips when I joined. Something along the lines of:

Welcome to the Fedora Lounge! We are so glad you have joined us. We would like to point our archives to you, which contain thousands of posts and years of knowledge on the Golden Era. You can first look for the answer to any of your questions here.

We recommend you stay a while and look around for a few weeks before posting. After you have reached 15 posts, you will be considered an active member who is allowed to receive Private Messages (PM).

If you'd like to discuss non-vintage things, we direct you to the Observation Bar, where genteel conversation is courteous and limited to appropriate courteous topics.

Etc, etc.

Just my .02, however clueless I appear to be....

--Vintage Betty

 

[ShortClara]

Oh I don't mean opinions in the sense that they have something to offer in an informative way.

I totally understand. I just didn't want you to feel oppressed, Sister Mother Sister Woman Sister!

 

[SamMarlowPI]

i was clueless about searching too until members started saying "search!"...now i search for old dead threads from way back and kind of bring them back...especially in the Moving Picture...so i'm with you Vintage Betty! lol

 

[Art Fawcett]

The unfortunate thing here is that new members are not the only ones who feel that things can be too heavily censored here.

I understand Kitty. Part of the problem is that we all get too attached to our words as though every word we speak is the gospel truth or the rightest of the right, and in fact they MAY be, but not in keeping with policy. There really ARE things that should just be left alone. There are other forums for arguing anything anyone would like to argue about or push any agenda that is dear to us, but not here. A little humilty goes a long way in keeping peace, and I mean this for ALL of us, not just to you so please don't take it personally.