Sam Spade's Fedora

[Wolfmanjack]

I've always considered the quintessential fedora to be the one worn by Bogart as Sam Spade in the Maltese Falcon. Is there anyone on the lounge who knows (or will venture a guess on) the actual dimentions of this hat?

What do you suppose the height of the crown was before that very deep bash was sculpted?

What about the crown height (front and back) after sculpting?

What is the width of the brim? Is that a Cavanaugh edge?

Finally, what is the width of the ribbon band? Is it grosgrain?

Incidentally, all of these images came from this website: thegoldenera.net

Awaiting your learned replies,

 

[Mojave Jack]

WoW! That is some deep bash! Wolfman, you've really piqued my interest with this thread. I'm looking forward to the replies from people that know much more about hats than I.

It seems like the deep bash is to make the crown lower. Did crown heights go up and down through time, like tie widths changing?

 

[Pilgrim]

Given the recent discussion of formal blocking vs. informal bash, I'd consider those pix evidence that the crowns of most hats were not formally blocked during this era. My best guess is that either:

• The hat's shape was left informal by the wardrobe department as a reflection of the usual practice of most average guys, or;
  
• It was one of Bogie's and he never had it blocked - which would be more evidence that most guys didn't bother.

Anyone care to share logic agreeing -or arguing to the contrary?

 

[MK]

.

Go the advanced search enter "spade" in the keywords, enter "MK" in the author field and select the hat forum. There you will find the answers you seek.

 

[Mojave Jack]

Am I doing something wrong?

I tried your search, MK, but all I got was this thread! Am I just technologically challenged?

 

[Pilgrim]

I tried the search as well, but found no content relating to the issue of whether hats were commonly blocked or not.

 

[jml90]

Anybody?

 

[Cacklewack]

I did the search and I found a thread that seems relevant to your questions:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=304

Matt

 

[Wolfmanjack]

I did the search and I found a thread that seems relevant to your questions:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=304

Matt

Thanks, Matt. That thread http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=304 was helpful; but it is more about MK's hat, not Bogie's.

I'm still left wondering about the proportions of the Bogart fedora. Based on the photos I posted at the beginning of this thread,

would any of you hatters venture an educated guess about at least one measurement (e.g., the width of the band or the width of the brim)? Armed with that info, I think I could extrapolate the other dimensions.

Incidentally, MK exhibits a very snazzy hat in that thread, as well as some very entertaining prose. Well worth a look.

 

[BigSho]

It is hard to tell I am not as good with the vintage stuff as some of the guys on here being a youngin. But its looks to me as if the brim is about a 2 3/8 inch with a underhem not a cavanagh edge. AS far as the block is concerned I would guess that it is a pre-blocked c-crown hat that was worn in or "bashed" by whoever.

Jeremy

 

[jamespowers]

I'll Hazzard a guess based on the age of the film and stature of Bogart.
His grasp of the brim tells me that it is probably 2 1/2 inches wide. If you check by grabbing the brim of your hat, you will see it would have to be about that size to fit the hand like that---even a small hand.
The crown has to be at least 5" blocked because the rake is a good 1/2 inch from front to back or more.
The ribbon has to be between 1 1/2 to 2" based on how much it takes up of the crown.
The brim edge must surely be a Cavanagh edge by the pictures you posted.
The block is hand formed. I would call it a deep C-crown. Most C-crowns are deep though the professionally blocked kind has a much crisper edge around the crown.
I think that just about does it.

Regards,

J

 

[havershaw]

I recall reading somewhere that Bogie always wore his own hats in his films (although I'm skeptical about Treasure of the Sierra Madre). I will say that his Casablanca, Maltese Falcon and Big Sleep hats all exhibit similar qualities (I don't think they are the same hats, though).

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Dimensions of the Sam Spade Fedora

Thanks everyone for your ideas, especially jamespowers.

Based on the assumption that the ribbon band is 2", here are the dimensions I have extrapolated for the Sam Spade hat:

Ribbon band = 2"
Brim = 2-3/4"
Crown, at front pinch = 4"
Crown, at back = 4"
Crown, at side = 5"​

Considering the depth of the bash,...

...the open crown would have to be well over 6" high.

Hatters, does the ring true for you?

 

[Marc]

Hatters, does the ring true for you?

I'm nowhere an expert when it comes to Bogies hat and all I can say is that I LOVED seeing the movie, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt, please.

Ok, as far as I know, Bogart wasn't the tallest man So based on that, I don't believe that his head was too big neither. Now, assuming that he had a hatsize SMALLER than a middlesized hat like a 7 1/8" or 7 1/4", a 2 3/4" brim seems too wide to me. That would stick out further from his head.

Again: I'm just speculating here, as there's no grumpy ol' man in England who will make claims about the ribbon width sporting this hat Since a 2 3/4" is too much, a 2" ribbon would be too wide as well. My GUESS would be a 1 1/2" ribbon (which would fit 1941 as well). Then you'd end up with the following measurements:

Brim: 2 1/16"
Front and back crown high: 3"
Middle crown high: 3 3/4"

and going by that, the length of the crown would be 9 3/8" (I'd have to check what size that is)... Or doesn anybody have an idea what size he wore? - Then it would be easy to calculate the rest.

Regards,

Marc

 

[BellyTank]

I would have to say that the brim is under 2.5" and that the crown is actually quite low(compared to previous, high estimates). And the ribbon, of course, less than 2".

Just look at how much crown has been lost with that deep indentation- maybe on purpose, for exactly that reason(losing height).

If you were to use a more conservative ribbon measurement of 1.75"(even 1.5") as a gauge and then follow your own extrapolations, you might end up with something more realistic.

And as for the brim edge- it has to be an overwelt, rather than a Cavanaugh- it has a very sharp edge at the end of the welt- on the top.


Take into account measurements from the face- nose length, forehead. etc.

B
T

 

[Fedora]

I agree witht he 2 1/2 brim specs. I have made a few of these. You have to have a 6 inch block to pull it off. I will see if I can find a pic to post of the last one I made. Fedora

 

[Joel Tunnah]

Yikes - I felt like I was at C.O.W. for a moment there...
Get out the mini-rulers Steve!

 

[PADDY]

Keep an eye out on Stetson Whippets...

Sorry if I have posted this twice in two threads. It's been a long day. Anyway, look out for vintage Whippets as they seem to have 'that look' that you covet. Good hunting!!