Pre 1940s (non-Stetson) Westerns

[Thundercolt]

Wild West Show performers

 

[MikeinRome]

1920's or earlier L K & Co. hat, "The Grizzly Hat". Has 3. 3/4 inch bound brim and 5 inch open crown. Brim has a strip of felt for a binding on the top side only. Has a 1 inch ribbon with the bow having the intentionally frayed back edge. This hat would loosely be called a Boss of the Plains or Austral style hat here on the Lounge, I'd say. It's said this hat was from the estate of an Eastern U.S. man who died in his 90's, who had gone out West "around the turn of the Century" i.e. 1900 and brought this hat back East. The hat's seller is in New Hampshire.

 

[Thundercolt]

Original hats from 1856 - Arabia Steamboat museum

 

[MikeinRome]

Original hats from 1856 - Arabia Steamboat museum
View attachment 601570

It's incredible that these hats were preserved from the steamboat Arabia.

 

[Thundercolt]

It's incredible that these hats were preserved from the steamboat Arabia.

Yes, it is amazing.
It was enlightening to see the actual hats that were worn on the western frontier (now the Midwest) before the Civil War.

 

[MikeinRome]

Here's another oldie that's arriving tomorrow and needs serious help. Unknown maker, 4 inch brim, about 6 inch open crown. Looks to date to 1930's or earlier.

 

[MikeinRome]

Here's another oldie that's arriving tomorrow and needs serious help. Unknown maker, 4 inch brim, about 6 inch open crown. Looks to date to 1930's or earlier.

This hat finally arrived. Has 4 inch bound brim and 6 1/2 inch open crown. There are no mfg tags and nothing written or stamped on the sweatband, which has the old VVVV type stitching. I'll be sending it off for cleaning and a new sweatband.

 

[MikeinRome]

1920's or earlier L K & Co. hat, "The Grizzly Hat". Has 3. 3/4 inch bound brim and 5 inch open crown. Brim has a strip of felt for a binding on the top side only. Has a 1 inch ribbon with the bow having the intentionally frayed back edge. This hat would loosely be called a Boss of the Plains or Austral style hat here on the Lounge, I'd say. It's said this hat was from the estate of an Eastern U.S. man who died in his 90's, who had gone out West "around the turn of the Century" i.e. 1900 and brought this hat back East. The hat's seller is in New Hampshire.

The Grizzly Hat after cleaning.

 

[MikeinRome]

This hat finally arrived. Has 4 inch bound brim and 6 1/2 inch open crown. There are no mfg tags and nothing written or stamped on the sweatband, which has the old VVVV type stitching. I'll be sending it off for cleaning and a new sweatband.

The same Unknown Maker hat after cleaning.

 

[MikeinRome]

1930's Miller Fine Hats, Denver Colo. Has 3 1/2 inch brim and 5 1/2 inch open crown. The seller said this was his father's hat when he was a boy, and he graduated highschool about 1940 and served in WWII. So I'm estimating this is a 1930's hat. I posted a couple of pics of it a year or so ago while discussing Miller hats but didn't go into details about this hat at that time. There's no tags in hat. It seems to be about a size 6 3/4 or so, I estimate.

 

[MikeinRome]

I'm guessing this is a pre-1940's hat, but not sure. Seems to be wool, but not sure. Brim is 3 3/4 inches to the curl, 4 inches overall. Has 7 inch open crown. It was suggested to me that this might be a Sears hat.

 

[MikeinRome]

Early 1930's Miller Fine Hats, Denver, 4X Quality. Once owned by Elmer Keith. The brim was originally 4 1/2 inches before the pencil curl and is 4 inches after the curl. Open crown is 6 3/4 to 7 inches. This hat was made for Miller by Stetson, and has Stetson Lot Number 6634, which I suspect is right around or before the NRA tags began in 1933 because I haven't seen a NRA Stetson yet with a Lot Number as low as the 6600's. The mfg tag is located in the hat in the same general location as a Stetson tag would be, and the small size tag I photographed was in the same area, attached to the sweatband. Right above the Lot Number is the word SOFT.

 

[MikeinRome]

Early 1930's Miller Fine Hats, Denver, 4X Quality. The brim was originally 4 1/2 inches before the pencil curl and is 4 inches after the curl. Open crown is 7 inches. This hat was made for Miller by Stetson, and has Stetson Lot Number 6634, which I suspect is right around or before the NRA tags began in 1933 because I haven't seen a NRA Stetson yet with a Lot Number as low as the 6600's. The mfg tag is located in the hat in the same general location as a Stetson tag would be, and the small size tag I photographed was in the same area, attached to the sweatband.

Here's a couple more photos. The owner's name inside the hat looks like Elmer Keith.. His initials EK were scratched into the sweatband. The last photo is of another NRA period Miller showing the placement of the small size tag. That photo is from pg 7 of this thread, a Miller that belonged to Dinerman. Unfortunately, I don't think he showed the Lot Number anywhere.

 

[RossRYoung]

Early 1930's Miller Fine Hats, Denver, 4X Quality. The brim was originally 4 1/2 inches before the pencil curl and is 4 inches after the curl. Open crown is 6 3/4 to 7 inches. This hat was made for Miller by Stetson, and has Stetson Lot Number 6634,

Great hat Mike. Is this confirmed, that it’s made by Stetson? Not too familiar with Miller but I don’t believe I’ve read that Stetson made their hats. Theirs been other 30s and older hats that have had LOT #s, and it was assumed that perhaps sweats were purchased from a larger manufacturer.

 

[MikeinRome]

Hey, Ross, and thank you. Nothing has been officially confirmed through anything like paperwork records from some Stetson archives, etc. But it is my firm belief. I previously got into a discussion turned argument with one of the usual suspects on the Lounge on this topic before I put him on IGNORE. Turn of the Century articles by Stetson say they manufactured every single part of their hats from beginning to end, so their sweatbands didn't come from another source. To my knowledge, nobody knows exactly by whom or when Miller contracted to make their hats, unless again there's some Miller archive somewhere. But somewhere on the Lounge it was said that at some early date that Stetson had made hats for Miller, no real details given. I don't know how long Stetson did so, but in my opinion my hat tells us Stetson was doing so in the early 30's. I've seen the theory that hats with Lot Numbers but with non Stetson brand names came from some mysterious unknown source but I don't believe that, and don't believe that other hat brands were just buying Stetson sweatbands, which doesn't even make any sense, because there were plenty of firms who made sweatbands. And then you would have to ignore the coincidence that these other oddball brand hats have Lot Numbers that just happen to follow the same date range as Stetson's Lot Numbers. Etc, etc. Also, note that in Miller's Miller Stockman catalogs, both brands are sold side by side.

 

[MikeinRome]

PS- The last theory put forth by the usual suspects is that some other hat companies had their own sweatband lot number system. This theory is too ridiculous to merit any discussion. It means these companies exactly reproduced every single facet of Stetson's Lot Number system, including using the exact same size letters and numbers, the exact same codes and the same numbering system which chronologically matched Stetson's. Completely absurd.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Here's a couple more photos. The owner's name inside the hat looks like Elmer Keith (?) or similar. His initials EK were scratched into the sweatband. The last photo is of another NRA period Miller showing the placement of the small size tag. That photo is from pg 7 of this thread, a Miller that belonged to Dinerman. Unfortunately, I don't think he showed the Lot Number anywhere.

Elmer wore some big hats during his outings. There are a lot of pics of him out there going way back. It would be interesting to research them looking at his hats to match.
B

 

[MikeinRome]

Elmer wore some big hats during his outings. There are a lot of pics of him out there going way back. It would be interesting to research them looking at his hats to match.
B

Are you serious? I can't believe he's an actual known person! By the way, I found that reference to Miller having Stetson make their hats early on. Then about 1908 it"s thought that Schoble made Miller hats into the 20's. See the attachment here.

 

[BobHufford]

Elmer wore some big hats during his outings.

You may have to keep digging, but big hats have been on his head.

Show us their hats!

The above post led me to think about the great John Moses Browning. Sam Colt and Peter Paul Mauser are all second fiddle to Brownings genius. I’m pretty sure these have been posted here before.

www.thefedoralounge.com

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Are you serious? I can't believe he's an actual known person! By the way, I found that reference to Miller having Stetson make their hats early on. Then about 1908 it"s thought that Schoble made Miller hats into the 20's. See the attachment here.

Absolutely serious. Elmer brought you the 357 and 44 magnums as well as being an icon for worldwide big game hunting and writing. He was also famous for his big hats.
B