Optimo south side mobsters

[Lefty]

All of those newsletters, videos, and such also show that Graham travels to China to source his milan, to Ecuador to select his panamas, and probably to Portugal to work with his felter.

Like rlk said, this is the law of diminishing returns in action. The difference between very good and great might be slight, and the price between them quite significant, but if you want great, you'll pay the big dollar difference for that bit of extra luxury.

 

[suitedcboy]

Many facets to this.
My background is the car biz. Characteristics that make a brand and its position in market are complex.
Many here have likely purchased an automobile for which the cost to build it, the price of parts and labor and shipping, may be less than one hundred dollars more than a "sister" brands platform shared model. The sales price will be thousands or maybe more than 10 thousand dollars more for the upscale version. The alignment of brand to make it "luxury" by sponsoring certain things can be a difference of many millions per year and add to this the advertisements and where they are placed. It builds a perception in the public among almost all us that brand Z is luxury and the platform shared mass market model of brand y is a great product but not what you'd buy if you won the lottery jackpot.
Optimo's material and labor may not be that much more than anyone else's but if he is positioning his brand then spending on the glitz and bling and then charging a price that aspirational buyers think is a luxury price is all part of this. Successful brand build will get a you a higher price and you can keep quality high by inclusion of additional steps that mass manufacturing will not readily allow. That you price yourself out of some buyer's range is something you have to do.
Would you rather own diamonds or pieces of really nice coal?

 

[fmw]

Not sure I agree as Winchester is a US company that produces bodies where Optimo is importing which could be significant cost increase....

Imported doesn't mean more expensive although it may. Even if the bodies are twice the price of those from Winchester, the material costs have to be a small percentage of the selling price.

 

[Aureliano]

All of those newsletters, videos, and such also show that Graham travels to China to source his milan, to Ecuador to select his panamas, and probably to Portugal to work with his felter.

Like rlk said, this is the law of diminishing returns in action. The difference between very good and great might be slight, and the price between them quite significant, but if you want great, you'll pay the big dollar difference for that bit of extra luxury.

:arated:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I have no idea but it can't be a very large percentage of the final price. After all, there are custom hatters that do it for about 25% of Optimo's price. You are paying mainly for labor, overhead and brand.

Not sure I agree as Winchester is a US company that produces bodies where Optimo is importing which could be significant cost increase....

Bingo. Graham has to pay import duties & other fees to get the bodies into the country.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Optimo must charge more than other hatters simply because of location. He's in downtown Chicago right?

No, he is on the far south side.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd have to agree with that.
My point, though, stands: At the end of the day, it's just a processed piece of felt with a few things sewn in.
I think there is simply a limit to how good a felt hat can get. It's not a suit. Optimo probably cannot get any better. I think more or less the same applies to Art and Penman and Delk and various others are too. Batsakes too, for that matter, and Gary White.
Felt is not straw. There is simply no comparison between the work that goes into a fino Montecristi and a felt hat, no matter who makes it. One takes weeks of painstaking work. The other is just felt.
And I may, someday, pay in the $600-$700 range for a Montecristi again.

A fedora is like a suit in the fact that it can be made from several different materials. A suit can be made from wool, linen, cotton, or a blend of any of the above as well as other materials. You can get single breasted, double, with an extra pair of pants, a vest, pinstripes, window pane, blue, black, etc, etc, etc.

A fedora can be made from wool, beaver, rabbit, wild hare, or a blend of any of the above along with other materials. A hat can be just like a suit: high quality that if properly cared for will last a lifetime or you can wear it once & throw it away.

 

[Lloyd]

Imported doesn't mean more expensive although it may. Even if the bodies are twice the price of those from Winchester, the material costs have to be a small percentage of the selling price.

I know that Art told me once he was paying a little over $3K for 3 doz bodies. This is before he raised his prices so at the time the felt was more than 25% of the cost of a hat, which is a pretty significant percentage.

 

[Neil]

Unfortunately Neil, I have evidence to disagree with you. Back in the late 1980's, I went to Rodeo Drive while on a business trip. Since I went there, I decided to buy a little something for the wife. The least expensive thing I picked up was a mottled (not tie-died) yellow long sleeved t-shirt with some (in my esteemed opinion) stupid saying on it for $95.00. The wife didn't get a present from that trip. On the other hand, some cultured individual (Neil and I would probably use the term idiot) was buying them. Optimo hats may or may not benefit from the same mentality.

Optimo's hats are almost certainly much better than a current Stetson (own a Stetson, haven't touched an Optimo), but will I feel like shelling out the extra $350.00? I probably won't for the same reason I don't own an engraved firearm, it would be too pretty to use and I ain't gonna use it, why did I buy it??? The only thing I own (well, the wife owns) that I don't "use" are pictures on the walls. I did however blow $270 for a Jaxonbilt Custom hat, and I wore it trimming trees at the range last weekend.

If I was talkin' I'd be hoarse by now...

I would say we agree completely.

 

[gtdean48]

I know that Art told me once he was paying a little over $3K for 3 doz bodies. This is before he raised his prices so at the time the felt was more than 25% of the cost of a hat, which is a pretty significant percentage.

Right, one of the issues with those featherweight bodies is they could rip in the blocking. I heard they were $125 or close to that. That is not a small percentage of a $300 hat in my book. Also, Graham is getting special runs, of specials color, in various sizes based on anticipated sales, then the import costs & etc... There is a lot of speculation & sunk costs tied up in the felt that may never get consumed...

 

[alanfgag]

The reason we have so few small production hat shops to pick from (or pick on) is that at some point not too long ago it became impossible to make a living at it. Graham and Optimo have made an investment. Their marketing communication is first rate. Their neat building renovation is an investment in their community as well as ours. From what I've seen, they do a very good job on their product and customer service too. I hope they make enough money to keep at it for a long time.

 

[gtdean48]

:arated:

.... I hope they make enough money to keep at it for a long time.

 

[1961MJS]

From what I've seen, they do a very good job on their product and customer service too. I hope they make enough money to keep at it for a long time.

Hi, I hope that Optimo and the others stay in business. Optimo is currently at the top of the price scale (as far as I know), but that doesn't make me mad or anything. Heck, I need to go to Mike Shannon's in Downtown StL and get a $70.00 steak just to see what one's like.

Later

 

[Neil]

I am always delighted to see a small businessman carve himself a niche and flourish in an era of cookie-cutter, big-box retailing. Graham has all my admiration for what he has built. I, too, hope Optimo remains and prospers. I really do. I've been to his store three times and the service, and end product, has been great.
At the same time, he's priced himself out of my business. There really is no contradiction in that. Almost all my hats have been Optimos, but I can't afford them anymore, and I only started this discussion to solicit views about whether any other hatmakers make a comparable product.

Hi, I hope that Optimo and the others stay in business. Optimo is currently at the top of the price scale (as far as I know), but that doesn't make me mad or anything. Heck, I need to go to Mike Shannon's in Downtown StL and get a $70.00 steak just to see what one's like.

Later

 

[rlk]

Prices are up $45.00 on the various felt and straw types from the previous year(Fall 2009) other than the $1,000 which is the same.

 

[Tomasso]

Graham has the overhead of the storefront and employees. He also has purchased a lot of equipment to improve quality, choice of felt finishes, and brim treatments.

Good point. And while prices are rising, he's hardly gouging his customers. It's not like he's got a yacht in Burnham and a plane at Midway.......

 

[rlk]

Optimo is currently at the top of the price scale (as far as I know)

Many are comparable in price, some higher. Definitely not at the top of the price scale.

 

[Bingles]

The Custom Hatter here in Buffalo (Mr. Gary White) does amazing work.. and Graham calls him for tips every now and then (nice to know they all work together!). I have three hats from the Custom Hatter -- his prices are a bit lower, BUT he doesn't have the work force that Optimo has.. or the advertising. It's a one man business which means production is much slower and you'd have to rely on telephone for contact. -- But you wouldn't be sorry with the end result!

 

[Mulceber]

Almost all my hats have been Optimos, but I can't afford them anymore, and I only started this discussion to solicit views about whether any other hatmakers make a comparable product.

Art. 'nuf sed. -M

 

[Tomasso]

he doesn't have the work force that Optimo has.. or the advertising.

Does Optimo advertise? Have I been missing something.......