Optimo south side mobsters

[DJH]

When you think about it, this makes sense. I think we'd agree that Optimo has the best marketing in the business. The new (bandwidth hogging but really cool) site is unique, the newsletter is excellent, but it would fall apart if the word got around that the product was lacking.

As it stands, he can claim to make the best hats and it is probably hard to argue against him. Good marketing + great product = brand success.

Obviously not everyone will become a customer, even if they buy into the Optimo story - he just has to get enough.

 

[Lloyd]

I agree with Aureliano regarding the finish of Graham's hats. I own 7 VS and 4 Optimos, and while I think the custom fit and the personal service from Art is unsurpassed Graham's felts are the richest and most luxurious I've seen so far in a modern hat, especially his long hairs which account for 3 of my 4 Optimos.

Now the best of both worlds in my opinion is a $100 eBay Optimo refitted by Art but I'm not counting on seeing another one of those anytime soon.

As for the quality of the light weight felts comparing my 2 VS feather weights to my one Optimo I think Art had the better felt there, but since there are no more new VS feather weights once Art's current stock is gone it's really a moot point.

All that being said however you're much more likely to see me wearing a VS, especially if it's raining but if I want to dress to impress I'll wear an Optimo.

 

[fluteplayer07]

I bought a secondhand Optimo a while ago for a family member, and of course I got to inspect it myself before it was gifted. It's a sky-blue (forgot the official name), with the fabric tag dating to Oct. '07. I also own two VS's. Aureliano, I'm going to disagree with you here; The latest of my VS's (ignoring my Art-Lite, as it cannot compare due to it's lighter weight) has a better finish than the Optimo. By feel, the Optimo has a thicker, denser, and slightly heavier felt. In comparison to any of my vintage hats, the Optimo's finishing blows them out of the water. It's smooth, silky, and fine. But putting up next to my Sunset VS, I'd say the VS wins. It's a very, very subtle difference, but the VS is just a little finer, and a little smoother. You can see it up close, too, that the Optimo has a larger... I don't know how to describe it... grain??? on the felt, whereas Art's hat is more like suede. It's not a matter of the length of the fur hair, just the pouncing. Again, this is very subtle, but just enough for me to notice.

I'm assuming everyone is comparing hats from approximately the same time... And I'd have no trouble believing Optimo could have improved even more in the last four years, as the one I'm comparing is a little more outdated than my VS. I'd love to see a brand new Optimo to compare.

I'm guessing that Aureliano, or Lloyd, that you guys are more accurate than I, as both of your acquisitions are more recent. Now what I'd like to know; any differences between an older Optimo, say 5 years, and now?

 

[kaosharper1]

I have an Optimo from his first year in business that I bought on EBAY and the felt is if anything nicer than a later Optimo I bought from a Lounger. (The old Optimo also has the best underwelt I've ever seen, even on vintage Borsalinos). Compared to Art's it varies. I have a Jazzman with the suede finish that is better than the Optimos, but that's a realtively new finish for Art. So on Arts older hats I think it does go to Optimo though the amount of customization and personal attention that Art gives at a much more reasonable price wins me over every time.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I bought a secondhand Optimo a while ago for a family member, and of course I got to inspect it myself before it was gifted. It's a sky-blue (forgot the official name), with the fabric tag dating to Oct. '07...

If it is one you bought off of Alucard73, the it is third hand & the color is called haze. It was my first Optimo.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I see from the new website that Milans are up $100...

The milans have been the same price for a few years now.

 

[gtdean48]

Does anybody know what the cost is for the felt bodies that Optimo uses? I'd be interested in the delta between finshed hat price & felt body cost to see what is then trimmings & "craftmanship"...

 

[fmw]

I have no idea but it can't be a very large percentage of the final price. After all, there are custom hatters that do it for about 25% of Optimo's price. You are paying mainly for labor, overhead and brand.

 

[gtdean48]

I have no idea but it can't be a very large percentage of the final price. After all, there are custom hatters that do it for about 25% of Optimo's price. You are paying mainly for labor, overhead and brand.

Not sure I agree as Winchester is a US company that produces bodies where Optimo is importing which could be significant cost increase....

 

[rlk]

There are 7 distinct Optimo felt types ignoring different color choices, some of which have to be developed with back and forth between the hatter and body manufacturer in formulation and finishing steps. Custom colors are another step sometimes requiring different felt formulations. Degree of pouncing or special additional steps varies with felt type and personal preferences. The craftsmanship is not the same issue as whether a particular felt conforms to an individual's preference. If you are happy with a less expensive hat and either don't care about, appreciate or have the funds to purchase an Optimo simply don't buy one. They do have a goal of ultimate hat quality rather than being good for a certain price point. As with many high quality luxury goods, the cost increases greatly for smaller refinements as you move up. There are hatters with lesser products that charge even more. You'll have to judge value for yourself.

 

[Neophyte]

Well said. After seeing your Optimo at FF3, I do one day wish to own one.

 

[Neil]

For the sake of comparison, and I know it is apples and oranges, but still, I think, valid: Alden of New England produces hand-benched shoes in shell cordovan horsehide. Shell is a very limited product, mostly available from only one tannery, and in great demand. The very best shoe companies in the world use it . . .Alden, Church's, Lobb. . . . Anyway, for a pair of beautiful shoes that take some cobbler quite awhile to produce, using a highly prized material, Alden charges $600.
Graham also produces a fine product, as discussed here. He asks the same money as Alden does for shell shoes. But at the end of the day, a fedora from anybody is two pieces of felt sewn together, with a sweat band and a liner.
He is able to have increased his prices dramatically over the years because of brilliant branding. . the Best In The World thing. Sort of the same reason Hermes can get away with charging $700 for a cowskin leather belt with a brass buckle.
Optimo is a triumph of marketing by a guy who struggled to do it. It should be taught in business schools.
But my psychological barrier was crossed with this price increase. I'm going to investigate the other custom makers. (And, given what my used Optimos are going for, I'll have an embarrassment of choice.)
I only this week learned about Black Sheep.
Aureliano: What is a custom W&W?

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Optimo must charge more than other hatters simply because of location. He's in downtown Chicago right? He HAS to sell quite a large number of hats at high prices just to make overhead. The Major is in Covington TN, which is a smaller town, with a hopefully smaller rent, smaller property tax, and smaller employee expenses. IN THEORY, the Major should be able to sell you the same hat at a much less expensive price. (I used the Major as an example since he DOES have a store and sells on the web).

They guys who work from their homes are very lucky to be able to do so. In some places, (for example Decatur AL, when I lived there in the 1990's) it is illegal to do ANY business from your home. It was required that you get a business license, and to do so required property zoned as commercial (and taxed at a much higher rate). Even a tax accountant that came to YOUR house to ask questions, then went home to do the paperwork got hassled into getting commercial property. This is personal experience, not hearsay.

As an "Oh by the way", Optimo's prices will increase again due to the fact that Illinois will begin charging local sales tax on all internet sales. Chicago's sales tax is 10.25% if memory serves.

http://americancityandcounty.com/admin/finance/internet-sales-tax-20110318/

YOU have to decide how much a given hat is worth to YOU. Having grown up in downstate Illinois, I'm torn between buying one of the best hats money can buy (when I have the $), and supporting the fount of corruption that is the City of Chicago. Note that Falcon Park is still in Cook County, but isn't part of the city itself.

Later y'all

 

[Neil]

So, then, $660, tax included?
Buddy Guy might not blink at that, but, um, I want to stay married.

 

[Aureliano]

Marketing and quality are two different things. You can market a terrible product, with poor quality with great success if you have the money. Optimo backs up its marketing with outstanding quality. It's different. It's not just a marketing trick.

 

[Neil]

Yep

I'd have to agree with that.
My point, though, stands: At the end of the day, it's just a processed piece of felt with a few things sewn in.
I think there is simply a limit to how good a felt hat can get. It's not a suit. Optimo probably cannot get any better. I think more or less the same applies to Art and Penman and Delk and various others are too. Batsakes too, for that matter, and Gary White.
Felt is not straw. There is simply no comparison between the work that goes into a fino Montecristi and a felt hat, no matter who makes it. One takes weeks of painstaking work. The other is just felt.
And I may, someday, pay in the $600-$700 range for a Montecristi again.

 

[buler]

I'd have to agree with that.
My point, though, stands: At the end of the day, it's just a processed piece of felt with a few things sewn in.
I think there is simply a limit to how good a felt hat can get. It's not a suit. Optimo probably cannot get any better. I think more or less the same applies to Art and Penman and Delk and various others are too. Batsakes too, for that matter, and Gary White.
Felt is not straw. There is simply no comparison between the work that goes into a fino Montecristi and a felt hat, no matter who makes it. One takes weeks of painstaking work. The other is just felt.
And I may, someday, pay in the $600-$700 range for a Montecristi again.

I would have to disagree. Again, this is just my opinion. After handling hundreds of felt hats it always amazes me how varied they are. Both in the felt and the quality of workmanship and ribbon/sweatband materials. Anyway, this is the Optimo thread and when I got the pleasure of visiting recently I was very impressed. Graham has the overhead of the storefront and employees. He also has purchased a lot of equipment to improve quality, choice of felt finishes, and brim treatments.

B

 

[1961MJS]

I'd have to agree with that.
My point, though, stands: At the end of the day, it's just a processed piece of felt with a few things sewn in....

Unfortunately Neil, I have evidence to disagree with you. Back in the late 1980's, I went to Rodeo Drive while on a business trip. Since I went there, I decided to buy a little something for the wife. The least expensive thing I picked up was a mottled (not tie-died) yellow long sleeved t-shirt with some (in my esteemed opinion) stupid saying on it for $95.00. The wife didn't get a present from that trip. On the other hand, some cultured individual (Neil and I would probably use the term idiot) was buying them. Optimo hats may or may not benefit from the same mentality.

Optimo's hats are almost certainly much better than a current Stetson (own a Stetson, haven't touched an Optimo), but will I feel like shelling out the extra $350.00? I probably won't for the same reason I don't own an engraved firearm, it would be too pretty to use and I ain't gonna use it, why did I buy it??? The only thing I own (well, the wife owns) that I don't "use" are pictures on the walls. I did however blow $270 for a Jaxonbilt Custom hat, and I wore it trimming trees at the range last weekend.

If I was talkin' I'd be hoarse by now...

 

[Neophyte]

I have to agree with Buler on this one.

 

[gtdean48]

I have to agree with Buler on this one.

When we left the Stockyards in Ft Worth, we went up the street to Best Hats. They have a nice storefront off the main part so their rent has to be cheaper. They carried American Hat Company hats out of Bowie, TX. http://www.americanhat.net/index.php They had a Best Hat private label made for them by American Hat Company. Their price for 100% Natural Beaver was $989.00. These hats don't compare to an Optimo but in the western hat market, the market will support that price.