Manners/Etiquette

[MrFusion]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap Thank you Thank you! I feel and do exactly as you do. I have two daughters and my wife and I have been teaching good maners since they have been old enough to talk. It pains me to go to dinner with our friends and see their kids yelling and running around the restaurant while their parents seem to have no idea they even have childern.

What really breaks my heart, is that hardy anyone in business has any honor or integrity. Everyone seems to see how far they can push the legal system in order to make a buck these days. Gone are the days when you can make a business deal with a hand shake. Everything has to be in writing or you will get screwed later.

It's nice to get some encouragement! Thanks GWD!

As far as the comments on business; you hit the nail on the head. As far as my personal dealings with others, I feel honor bound when I give my word on something. It is hard to give your word to someone though when you aren't sure if they feel the same when giving their word.

 

[Paisley]

Working with the Public

Several years ago, I was a temp taking incoming calls. I found a few things helpful:

• If you or your company is wrong, admit it.
• Make any apology in a businesslike manner. For some reason, an apologetic tone seems to be an invitation for further criticism.
• Ask, "What is it that you would like me to do?" If they don't know (which is often), you can end it right there.
• If there is going to be some inconvenience, let the customer know in advance, if possible.

 

[C.K.Farnsworth]

I must say that I agree with everyone...but

if you want a little universal perspective on the subject I strongly suggest reading the book Flapper "A Madcap Story of Sex, Style, Celebrity, and the Women Who Made America Modern". This is a current book available in paperback. It is a fascinating and fun read full of historical facts and reminds us that this current state of affairs is not a new occurrance. That in the 1920's the youth greatly upset the manners and etiquette of their parents' generation.

Additionally, I agree with the concensus that we must lead by example. And teach our children well. (when we have them, I currently don't...yet)

 

[ShortClara]

One thing that I have noticed, especially since my move, is that when Im on the bus, I rarely see people offer their seat to an elderly person. That astounds me.

I generally sit in the middle or back just to avoid this, but have on times given my back row seat up to a person with a cane or an old lady just holding on and trying not to fall.

Its interesting, in Santa Monica and San Francisco (where I came from) its a law to offer your seat if you sit in the front to an elderly or disabled person. Its not in LA. I would think it would be common since etiquette to do such a thing, but I guess, no.

So I see many many older people walk to the back of the bus and stand as I see many able bodied young men (and women) just sit there as if that simple gesture is not an obligation to your seniors.

Wow.

LD

Yup, welcome to the friendly city of LA, she said with a rueful smile.

I saw that in Chicago, though, too. Even pregnant ladies would stand while able bodies persons stared at her. Not when me or my hubby were on the bus/ train though

 

[Foofoogal]

Thank you Thank you! I feel and do exactly as you do. I have two daughters and my wife and I have been teaching good maners since they have been old enough to talk. It pains me to go to dinner with our friends and see their kids yelling and running around the restaurant while their parents seem to have no idea they even have childern.

I would like to tell you the rewards you may get from teaching your child manners that you have not considered.
To try to teach these manners as you have been taught is a reflection of your parents. The very fact you are trying is testimony to your parents.
Our children are grown now. One with children of their own.
Years ago I used to endure other parents complaining about how strict we were to our children. I used to immediately ask them if something happened to mine due to my laziness if I didn't parent would they then give me their children.
Of course things happen beyond control and I am not suggesting hovering over them but being aware is necessary.
I honestly had more problems with other parents than other kids trying to influence my kids negativity. It burned me up at the time sometimes.
The greatest rewards that I will finally get to is when your children are old and grown and actually thank you for being strict and teaching them life lessons and manners. By this time they have had time to see the destruction of other kids whose parents let them get away with murder.
We restricted tv and music in our home as like I used to tell them until they pay the bills they must abide by our rules. Period.

 

[Feraud]

One thing that I have noticed, especially since my move, is that when Im on the bus, I rarely see people offer their seat to an elderly person. That astounds me.

That is sad to read. I have observed New Yorkers generally offer their bus or train seat to those who could use it.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

It pains me to go to dinner with our friends and see their kids yelling and running around the restaurant while their parents seem to have no idea they even have children.

You didn't get the memo? See, nowadays, you don't have to bother with getting dressed up, you don't have to get a babysitter, you bring the kids along wherever and let them run wild because the world is supposed to be their babysitter...but woe be unto those that complain about these little darlings. Replace world with market, shopping center, theatre, restaurant, wedding, funeral, doctor's office - anyplace where children really shouldn't be allowed unattended, if at all. :rage: [huh] :eusa_doh:

I must've missed getting that memo, too, but seems like a bunch of others got it. They're the same types who park in handicapped spots because they're just going to be there for a minute, take a big drag off the cigarette before they step into a non-smoking establishment to exhale, throw things at but not make it into trash containers...and the list goes on and on and on...

 

[jayem]

Mommy can't be bothered; Mommy's on her cell phone.

 

[Maguire]

Well what can i say, i agree with the sentiment expressed. For example, i will hold the door for people behind me, but often times i don't hear a thank you or efind the door being slammed in my face. In both instances i will either say "YOUR WELCOME" to the "thank you" that never came, or thank them for holding the door. I am not necessarily the most mannerly person BY FAR yet i constantly get complimented at work for being "courteous and mannerly" and all that by customers.

Things may be getting bad now but for every action there is a reaction, and i firmly believe that eventually the pendulum will swing against all this social decay and eventually some generation will react to this and establish decency again, little by little. If not well the future is going to be very dim.

 

[Ben]

I respectfully disagree.

Manners are important, but they aren't gone, just more complicated.

I take it no one here has ever been taken to task by a woman who says, "I'm a judge and perfectly capable of standing" when they offered her their seat on the train.

You have also never seen a man's pride insulted when offered a seat. "I'm young enough to stand."

I've seen both, and was at the receiving end of the first remark.

I have also seen heavily tattooed and pierced parents who are younger than I am (33), outside of a roller derby match where a little rowdiness might be expected, making sure that their children say thank you when complimented.

Part of the problem is that with new social roles and new technology, we all need to relearn what is acceptable. It requires a lot of sensitivity to the situation. Your manners could be insulting.

Many times people aren't being deliberately rude, it is just that so much is being thrown their way, so many demands and messages, it is hard to keep track of what they should do. Often times, being polite, direct, and firm will lead to an apology and better behavior.

The population keeps growing. That means there are going to be more rude people, just because there are more people. But that doesn't mean everyone is deliberately rude or evil. I've done my share of rude things, but often it was just a goof.

One other thought in this novel I've started. I was watching some old videos of good behavior films, and most of what we regard as good manners, and even some good table manner behaviors, are actually things that make life easier. So, leading by example may be the best way. When you have a smoother life, others will emulate you.

A couple of quotes to wrap up.

"Men exist for the sake of one another. Teach them then or bear with them."
Marcus Aurelius

"When we see men of worth, we should think of equalling them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine
ourselves."

Confucius

 

[Panache]

....One other thought in this novel I've started. I was watching some old videos of good behavior films, and most of what we regard as good manners, and even some good table manner behaviors, are actually things that make life easier. So, leading by example may be the best way. When you have a smoother life, others will emulate you.

Isn't there an old saying about how it is "better to light a candle than curse the darkness"

Sting sang once:

"Modesty, propriety can lead to notoriety
You could end up as the only one
Gentleness, sobriety are rare in this society
At night a candles brighter than the sun"

Regardless of how others behave I will remain a gentleman, I will teach my children to use proper manners, and I will remember common courtesy even when others around me don't. The true test of manners is when one has to deal with those who lack them.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[MrNewportCustom]

fftopic:

that reminded me of something Jane Austen would have written...

Actually, the first time I heard it was while listening to a Tom Lehrer song. lol

that might be a big part of it too. the irony is, we have more ways to communicate with each other, but nothing worth saying.

And this reminds me of a saying I heard a few years ago; "Those who have the least to say, always say it the loudest." lol


Lee
___________________________

"The cat, of course, said nothing." - Kinky Friedman

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Working retail and food service are of the most mentally abusive jobs flat out, period. My last retail job lead to a sever bout of depression.

If ever there were a time to practice manners, or just humanity 101, its someone working food service. They are managing multiple orders from multiple tables/people, clearing dishes, counting money, arranging checks, and getting phones, and this is generally all within a 5 min stretch.

Also people who have never done it are always the rudest. There is no need to flip out if someone brings you a diet Coke by mistake instead of regular.

LD

Lady Day. I've never worked food service, but I know what it means to be busy and harried. You would have loved me as a diner at one of your stations.


Lee

 

[Spitfire]

I think Winston Churchill said it all:
"Attitude is a little thing that makes a great difference."

 

[Mrs. Merl]

"I take it no one here has ever been taken to task by a woman who says, "I'm a judge and perfectly capable of standing" when they offered her their seat on the train."

I am sorry you were on the receiving end of such behavior.

It saddens me deeply that we have come to a point in the course of time when, treating a person with a little decency can be misconstrued as an insult. I will not launch into my unconventional views on feminism (I will spare you all!) However, I feel that perhaps it is poor manners on the other individuals part to assume that a man who offers his seat would in that one gesture embody the entire history of female inequality. A truly decent and emancipated woman, in my opinion, would be above such behavior and perhaps politely inform the gentleman that "It is okay - I do not mind standing. Thank you though." Don't degrade yourself by putting your beliefs on such display that you become entirely "off-putting" and make another human feel like they have committed an atrocious act when they simply intended to be polite. Sheesh!!

 

[Foofoogal]

"I take it no one here has ever been taken to task by a woman who says, "I'm a judge and perfectly capable of standing" when they offered her their seat on the train."

I will be even harsher. The whole point is to give a lady your seat. Evidently she was no lady.
I sure will take it as I cannot stand standing. Being in line at the grocery is torture for me. lol

 

[SweetieStarr]

Things may be getting bad now but for every action there is a reaction, and i firmly believe that eventually the pendulum will swing against all this social decay and eventually some generation will react to this and establish decency again, little by little. If not well the future is going to be very dim.

I sure hope you are right about the pendulum swinging back. I agree about the very dim future if it doesn't. I see the disrespectful attitudes of younger cousins of mine and fear what their children will be like.

 

[SweetieStarr]

I have two boys and my wife and I try to teach them manners. I'm not sure if I am teaching them as well as my parents taught me, but we are trying. My kids have been taught to say "Yes/No Sir" and "Yes/No Mame" to adults. I have actually had people tell me that we are too strict because we want our children to answer adults in that way. It seems the younger crowd has that attitude, but many older adults have told us how well behaved our boys are.
We try to explain to the boys why we use manners. As an example, someone mentioned an adult chewing with there mouth open. I explain to them how ugly it looks and let them know if they do that at a friends house, they will probably not be invited back. So far so good.
I have taken my child out of a restaurant when he was acting up and disturbing others that were trying to enjoy their night out. I let my wife know that if I didn't come back, to please have them box my food up and I took my son out (only had one son at that point) to the car to discuss his behavior. I did get to go back in to eat and my son was like a different kid after our talk. (sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't [huh] ) Bottom line is, I know how much I dislike having my meal interrupted by a misbehaving child and I was not going to do that to someone else.

I have to say though, that one of the hardest parts of teaching manners is the fact that we are about the only enforcers. Other kids parents don't seem to teach their kids and that makes it more difficult to encourage the manners in our children.

THANK YOU! I'm so happy there are some parents who still do this. I was raised with this tactic and plan on using it if/when I have kids. It's nice to know there are still some kids being raised right (IMO).

 

[SweetieStarr]

My generation (God, do I hate to say it...) has a problem with being corrected. We get very hurt when critiqued or when our mistakes are pointed out because we're so used to our good qualities being brought into the light more so than the bad ones.

That being said, I just think as people age, we think the younger people are ruder than before. I'm sure the Baby Boomers considered Generation X to be defiant little scumbags, and I'm sure the Silent Generation considered the Boomers to be the same.

I think we are the same generation, Jayem, and I'm just appalled at those my age and younger.

For more of a general reply to all the posts: (prepare for a small rant)

I think a lot of parents just don't care enough to take the time to teach their kids, which is sad. Most parents have no idea what their kids are even doing, especially on MySpace, etc.

Yes, I think the acceleration of technology is part of it. I hate when people try to have txt conversations with me. It's so lazy and impersonal.

To the gentleman that got a rude response when he offered his seat to a woman - I am also sorry that happened to you. I think it was a lovely gesture on your part and if you had made that gesture to me, I would have much appreciated it and praised your "gentlemanliness," whether I took the seat or not.

Just to put something out there -- hopefully I won't get flack for it: Gentleman - do you usually get a favorable response from women when you do things like opening doors or other gentlemanly gestures?

I always point out my appreciation for the behavior, but I feel a lot of women (like that judge mentioned) feel it's putting women down like they can't open their own door and as a result, discourage the gentlemanly behavior from men.

One incident that happened was that I was in a room taking a test with proctors. The proctors were passing out the tests and one of the male proctors told another male proctor to take the tests from the female proctor because she was carrying a large stack. The female proctor didn't really care, so she just kept on passing out the tests. One of the students said, "Why can't she pass out the tests? I don't think she cares." The male proctor said something to the effect of "A woman shouldn't have to carry all that." Half the girls in the room got very upset because I think they interpreted his comments to mean a woman isn't as able as a man to carry the heavier items. However, I thought it was just the opposite -- not that a woman *can't* carry the load, but that she shouldn't have to. Personally, I would have been thrilled to have someone carry the heavy test pile instead of making me do it!

Also, many men (excluding those here), think it is okay to treat a woman without respect. For example, in dating, rather than taking a woman on a proper date, many men just expect women to "hang out" or drive to the guy's place when the guy wants, or be a booty-call.

Ok, hopefully I haven't said too much. Done for now.

 

[Foofoogal]

Also, many men (excluding those here), think it is okay to treat a woman without respect. For example, in dating, rather than taking a woman on a proper date, many men just expect women to "hang out" or drive to the guy's place when the guy wants, or be a booty-call.

Ok, hopefully I haven't said too much. Done for now.

As an older lady I believe it is up to women to set the tone or respect themselves first.
I am old enough to remember how it used to be.
How you shove things back in a box I am not sure. You know how you go to a store and unwrap like a toaster or something. You just never get it back in the same way hardly.
I am not 100% for how it used to be but more like 80% probably.