Manners/Etiquette

[Charlie Noodles]

This is exactly so -- and it's one reason why I'm extremely careful who I hire for concession help at the theatre. The vast majority of kids today were taught that there's no need for them ever to defer to anyone else -- so the notion of *serving* customers as opposed to simply "waiting on them" is something they can't fathom. It grates on my nerves when I go to a fast-food stand and give my order and the kid on the other side of the counter looks at me and says "That it?" or when *I* end up being the one who says a pointed "thank you" at the end of the transaction. (And when they say "No Problem" back, I feel like screaming.)

Contrariwise, I find at the register what often happens is we both end up thanking eachother about three times together. Pay for the goods 'Thank you', get the change 'Thank you', receipt 'Thank you'. This always seems silly to me; it seems neither of us are quite sure when the thanking should be done. What would the etiquette suggest?

 

[Foofoogal]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned. I think it's so that few people are getting training in how to interface with others throughout the day. From the person you encounter at the door to the library, to the wait staff at a restaurant, to the people you speak with on the phone. There are better ways to do everything so that everyone comes away with a pleasant experience, but I really think few parents teach etiquette, mainly because they themselves weren't taught. Much of it was discarded by the Boomer generation.
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I totally agree. I think a great deal of it is due to Dr.Spock who BTW even stated years later he was wrong.
I was in a grocery parking lot the other day and some teen boys were cussing alot, f this, f that. One looked at me and then just kept at it.
I was so wishing I was about a 7 ft. fullback at the time.
My grandchildren are visiting and I took them to church today. It was pleasing to hear the teacher tell me what well behaved girls they are. 9 and 10 yrs. old. I told them it was due to their parents but one of their parents is due to my honey and me.
I believe there are 2 great forms of child abuse that is not the normal spoken of. Not teaching your child how to get along in the real world and not letting them grow up and fly.

I feel very sorry for children who have to just wing it and are never parented.
Where have we gone as a people is very sad. I read my grandbabies Henry and the Paper Route book last night. It is an old read but all about pride and responsibility. Consistency is key and I am grateful my grandchildren get the same message from all their greatgrandparents, grandparents, parents and aunts. They know what to expect as members of a family.

 

[Real Swell Gal]

I believe there are 2 great forms of child abuse that is not the normal spoken of. Not teaching your child how to get along in the real world and not letting them grow up and fly.

Amen to that!

 

[Feng_Li]

It's probably not a good idea to directly confront such people. Speak to the staff of the restaurant.

One tactic, when practical, is to quietly ask to be relocated to another table. We've done this in Japan when seated next to a table with smokers in a restaurant that doesn't have a no-smoking section. A relocation is quite an effort, with a couple of staff moving all the little dishes, and it attracts the attention of the whole restaurant. The people at the smoking table are pretty much humiliated, but since they were never spoken to by either us or the restaurant staff, they have absolutely no outlet to express themselves, make snotty remarks, or do anything. It's absolutely priceless!

And we often find that the restaurant will miraculously have grown a no-smoking section by the next time we visit.

I fear this tactic would be far more effective in Japan than in America, for it relies on the offending party having a sense of shame.

 

[Lady Day]

One thing that I have noticed, especially since my move, is that when Im on the bus, I rarely see people offer their seat to an elderly person. That astounds me.

I generally sit in the middle or back just to avoid this, but have on times given my back row seat up to a person with a cane or an old lady just holding on and trying not to fall.

Its interesting, in Santa Monica and San Francisco (where I came from) its a law to offer your seat if you sit in the front to an elderly or disabled person. Its not in LA. I would think it would be common since etiquette to do such a thing, but I guess, no.

So I see many many older people walk to the back of the bus and stand as I see many able bodied young men (and women) just sit there as if that simple gesture is not an obligation to your seniors.

Wow.

LD

 

[Mike in Seattle]

Friends were commenting on this topic yesterday at a reception after a memorial service - there really SHOULD be some sort of mandatory manners class...but then again, it's one of the things that should be taught at home from an early age and usually isn't in this day in age...and we have a generation or two that have been brought up as virtual ill-mannered or completely unmannered slobs.

 

[ADHD librarian]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned... I really think few parents teach etiquette, mainly because they themselves weren't taught. Much of it was discarded by the Boomer generation.

Too true,
I was at a weding two weekends ago seated at a table of Gen X and Gen Y folk. we managed to have a nice discussion of correct wedding etiquette which was sparked off when almos everyone at the reception sat before the bride.

The group I was sitting with were all very happy to learn and a friend and I managed to give them a lot of (useful?) information.
But it was as basic as which side plate is yours, which knife gets used first.

Sure, some things are outdated. It was no good telling the men that the groom must remove his jacket before you do, as a lot of them were not wearing jackets (well, it was Central Australia and dress codes there are unique, I was plesantly suprised no one was in shorts).

But how can people learn if no one tells them. Somehow I managed to get a smattering (and I am odd enough to enjoy it, so went looking for more) but (in Australia a least) these 'extras' are though of as being hangovers from the British empire or as things which only matter to snobs and nobs.

 

[Brinybay]

I see this all the time. I drive a city bus and I'm appalled at the number of times I've seen young kids not voluntarily letting elderly have their seat (but if I see that, they WILL give up their seat!), and men pushing their way onto the bus ahead of a woman that was in front of them. And this is in "nicey-nice" Seattle! (Dirty little secret: It's not as nice as it's made out to be).

One time I (gently) scolded a guy for doing that with a woman that he was apparently with. They were a young (30-something) couple and she got a kick out of the fact that I told him to mind his gentlemanly manners. He took it well, apparently they were just goofing around, but realized how bad it looked.

 

[Spitfire]

My goodness!

I actually find that many young people behave much better than we did back in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Charlie Noodles]

Speaking of buses. Just before I witnessed something rather terrible. A girl of maybe around 16-17 spat in the face of some girl not much younger. Just for the fun of being a bully. I don't think they had any actual quarrel. The coward did it as she was stepping off too.

I heard someone else mention the little thug's name. So I'll see about getting her banned from the line.

 

[jayem]

I stress to our kids that we aren't just selling movies and popcorn, we are selling an experience. That means showing respect, courtesy, and, yes, *deference* to the customers -- and no cocky, swaggering, in-your-face attitudes will be tolerated.

Yeah, but only SOME customers. While I worked in retail in food service for a few years each, I can tell you that some people walk in just looking to pick a fight. Some people just want to let out all their stress on you. While, I've only gotten in a handful of major tiffs with customers, they were rightly deserved. I will never kill somebody with kindness when they scream at me that I am an incompetent little b*tch, or threaten to beat the living sh*t out of me. And no, I'm not exaggerating... those words were actually said to me. I guess I have too much pride in myself to be publicly embarrassed and chastised from a person who takes their spare anger out on a waitress or a cashier whose only abiding by the rules that corporate has put out. FTR, none of the people who picked some memorable fights with me were near my age or younger.

 

[Brinybay]

Speaking of buses. Just before I witnessed something rather terrible. A girl of maybe around 16-17 spat in the face of some girl not much younger. Just for the fun of being a bully. I don't think they had any actual quarrel. The coward did it as she was stepping off too.

I heard someone else mention the little thug's name. So I'll see about getting her banned from the line.

That kind of thing needs to be reported to the driver. Driver's aren't cops, but there are steps we can take, starting with documenting it on up to summoning police. The driver can't see everything that goes on, in fact, very little, we're busy driving the bus.

Here's another "nice" Seattle story for you: One time as I pulled up to a stop, I heard a commotion going on behind me. I looked back and one of the passengers was on the floor having convulsions and foaming at the mouth. I immediately called the coordinator who summoned medical help. To my shock, I found out that this had started a good 5-10 minutes before I discovered it, YET NOBODY SAID ANYTHING, THEY JUST SAT THERE!! But believe you me, if I pass their stop, they scream like hell!!

 

[Charlie Noodles]

Yikes. Well I did talk to the driver before I got off. Mentioned her name to him.

 

[Lady Day]

... While I worked in retail in food service for a few years each, I can tell you that some people walk in just looking to pick a fight. Some people just want to let out all their stress on you. While, I've only gotten in a handful of major tiffs with customers, they were rightly deserved. I will never kill somebody with kindness when they scream at me that I am an incompetent little b*tch, or threaten to beat the living sh*t out of me....

Working retail and food service are of the most mentally abusive jobs flat out, period. My last retail job lead to a sever bout of depression.

If ever there were a time to practice manners, or just humanity 101, its someone working food service. They are managing multiple orders from multiple tables/people, clearing dishes, counting money, arranging checks, and getting phones, and this is generally all within a 5 min stretch.

Also people who have never done it are always the rudest. There is no need to flip out if someone brings you a diet Coke by mistake instead of regular.

LD

 

[TheDutchess]

I really hate that! For some reason there is a pandemic of people who feel they are above other's when clearly they aren't. I often wonder where exactly all the rudeness started as well. Late baby boomer and generation X I find to be the most rude and of course their little minions *cough* I mean children are just as bratty if not worse. Wonder what happened those years where parents just felt like dropping the ball? I fall into the children of the baby boomer generation and even though I am an adult, my mom would have my hide if I didn't respect my elders. You will never catch me calling anyone more than 10 years older than me by their first name. I agree with Lady Day, It really makes me ill when I see able bodied people not give their seat up for the elderly or disabled. Same goes for people who refuse to hold the door for a second so you can catch the door. I usually brush it off but sometimes I have to tell people they are rude when the door gets slammed in mine or someone else's face. Which is probably rude in itself but I figured if their momma didn't feel like telling them I might as well. lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

Yeah, but only SOME customers. While I worked in retail in food service for a few years each, I can tell you that some people walk in just looking to pick a fight. Some people just want to let out all their stress on you. While, I've only gotten in a handful of major tiffs with customers, they were rightly deserved. I will never kill somebody with kindness when they scream at me that I am an incompetent little b*tch, or threaten to beat the living sh*t out of me.

Our kids, if such things happen, have standing orders to send for me -- and then disappear. The absolute worst thing you can do with a surly customer is snap back at them -- and then give them an excuse to jump on you even harder. It's management's job to defuse such things, and that's where excessive courtesy can often help: if a customer raises his voice at me, I *lower* mine, and the louder he gets, the more quiet mine becomes, until everybody in the lobby is staring at him. Usually, I find, shame takes over then, and he settles right down. And if not, I switch to my icy-professional voice and direct him to the street. But I am never discourteous to him, which always gives me the upper hand.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Manners can be taught, or not. Courtesy comes from character and compassion for others. That is sorely lacking these days and can only come from within and needs no instruction manual.

 

[scotrace]

Speaking of irate customers, an observation:

If someone comes to our office and becomes unruly or abusive, they get sent to me, or I am sent for. Invariably, the person who was shouting at the women in the front will become calm and reasonable when they are dealing with me. I really think both men and women are more abusive toward women in service roles than toward men.
Believe me, it makes the ladies in my office nuts.

 

[MrFusion]

I have two boys and my wife and I try to teach them manners. I'm not sure if I am teaching them as well as my parents taught me, but we are trying. My kids have been taught to say "Yes/No Sir" and "Yes/No Mame" to adults. I have actually had people tell me that we are too strict because we want our children to answer adults in that way. It seems the younger crowd has that attitude, but many older adults have told us how well behaved our boys are.
We try to explain to the boys why we use manners. As an example, someone mentioned an adult chewing with there mouth open. I explain to them how ugly it looks and let them know if they do that at a friends house, they will probably not be invited back. So far so good.
I have taken my child out of a restaurant when he was acting up and disturbing others that were trying to enjoy their night out. I let my wife know that if I didn't come back, to please have them box my food up and I took my son out (only had one son at that point) to the car to discuss his behavior. I did get to go back in to eat and my son was like a different kid after our talk. (sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't [huh] ) Bottom line is, I know how much I dislike having my meal interrupted by a misbehaving child and I was not going to do that to someone else.

I have to say though, that one of the hardest parts of teaching manners is the fact that we are about the only enforcers. Other kids parents don't seem to teach their kids and that makes it more difficult to encourage the manners in our children.

 

[GWD]

I have two boys and my wife and I try to teach them manners. I'm not sure if I am teaching them as well as my parents taught me, but we are trying. My kids have been taught to say "Yes/No Sir" and "Yes/No Mame" to adults. I have actually had people tell me that we are too strict because we want our children to answer adults in that way. It seems the younger crowd has that attitude, but many older adults have told us how well behaved our boys are.
We try to explain to the boys why we use manners. As an example, someone mentioned an adult chewing with there mouth open. I explain to them how ugly it looks and let them know if they do that at a friends house, they will probably not be invited back. So far so good.
I have taken my child out of a restaurant when he was acting up and disturbing others that were trying to enjoy their night out. I let my wife know that if I didn't come back, to please have them box my food up and I took my son out (only had one son at that point) to the car to discuss his behavior. I did get to go back in to eat and my son was like a different kid after our talk. (sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't [huh] ) Bottom line is, I know how much I dislike having my meal interrupted by a misbehaving child and I was not going to do that to someone else.

I have to say though, that one of the hardest parts of teaching manners is the fact that we are about the only enforcers. Other kids parents don't seem to teach there kids and that makes it more difficult to encourage the manners in our children.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap Thank you Thank you! I feel and do exactly as you do. I have two daughters and my wife and I have been teaching good maners since they have been old enough to talk. It pains me to go to dinner with our friends and see their kids yelling and running around the restaurant while their parents seem to have no idea they even have childern.

What really breaks my heart, is that hardy anyone in business has any honor or integrity. Everyone seems to see how far they can push the legal system in order to make a buck these days. Gone are the days when you can make a business deal with a hand shake. Everything has to be in writing or you will get screwed later.