Making a Western hat by hand?

[mattsteinfeld]

No, felting from fur is similar to wool but so much more complex.

The difficulty; you need to separate the coarse outer guard hairs, then lots of heat and pressure....which is hard to replicate at home. I suspect it can be done but your results would be far inferior to what machinery can accomplish. Might be a fun thing to try though.
Winchester has told me they have a wait list of over 200 hatters....in the last 8 years they have taken just 4 hatters from that list. They no longer bother adding names to the wait list as likely we will not live long enough for our name to reach the top. Even those hatters that can buy from Winchester it is taking them upwards of 12 months to receive orders.

FEPSA is a factory , a very large factory and is not interested in selling small orders. Tim @purebeaver is the NA distributor and can set you up. Also if you check out the FEPSA website they do list individual felts for sale.....leftovers, overruns, remainders are for sale at a good price. FEPSA has trouble meeting the orders of their existing clients and they too are not accepting any new customers.
Millinery Warehouse has great felts but their beaver stock is limited and when they get stock it sells out almost immediately. Keep an eye on their website, get on their contact list and you will alerted next time a shipment comes in.

Great info! Thanks. It makes sense now that Tim is a distributor for Fepsa.

Millinery Warehouse is where I have gotten capelines before. Do you know if they get their capelines from Fepsa, too?

 

[belfastboy]

Great info! Thanks. It makes sense now that Tim is a distributor for Fepsa.

Millinery Warehouse is where I have gotten capelines before. Do you know if they get their capelines from Fepsa, too?

No, as I stated, they are the NA distributor for felts from Ukraine.

 

[dmeist]

Thank you @AbbaDatDeHat. I appreciate the warm welcome.

Winchester was pretty adamant about not selling to new customers as of May 2023. I called them and begged, even planned on visiting the factory as I am living in Tennessee to help the persuasion of proving my legitimacy as a well-meaning hatmaker.

I tried Fepsa's site, which asks for 4 prompts but when I fill those out, nothing ever comes up. I have tried pretty much every combination just for test. I emailed them recently but haven't heard back. It's only been a few days, though.

There are other sites I have found, but they seem to be either reselling Winchester or Fepsa capelines. I dont know that fore sure, but the descriptions seem really close. As far as I know only Hatco (Stetson, Resistol) and Winchester are the only USA manufacturers of quality control felts at the factor level, Fepsa being Portuguese.

I am aware of many custom hat-makers in the USA, and they have all told me they use either Winchester (old customers) or Fepsa. Those that use Fepsa usually say their hats are made of "euro hare" (which is fancy way of saying "rabbit")

I know this is a hot topic these days, and perhaps, a well-kept secret among hatters, but do you (or anyone else reading) know where to get 100% beaver capelines these days?

Thank you! Lil Grizz has been very informative in the past via his YouTube channel. I saw him wet felt a capeline there. So much is available on YouTube about felting wool, especially by makers a fascinators (sp?) and women’s British hats. I imagine the process is similar for rabbit/beaver/nutria?

Welcome. appreciate the communication. I'm in the same boat as you. Started Hatting about a year ago and struggling to find felt. Pure Beaver does have a few in very limited colors. I had the same response from Winchester and have sent several emails to Fepsa with no response. I do like the Nutri felts from Sunrise Hats, but they are limited also.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

No, as I stated, they are the NA distributor for felts from Ukraine.

Apologies, @belfastboy, as I am seeing responses through email and not on the website in real time. I am a few comments behind and responding as I see them. Thank you for sharing that information as it confirms what I was assuming to be true.

 

[belfastboy]

Welcome. appreciate the communication. I'm in the same boat as you. Started Hatting about a year ago and struggling to find felt. Pure Beaver does have a few in very limited colors. I had the same response from Winchester and have sent several emails to Fepsa with no response. I do like the Nutri felts from Sunrise Hats, but they are limited also.

FEPSA will not respond. They want to use Tim as a distributor for NA. They too have more demand than supply and the last thing they want is to deal with craft hatters that buy a few dozen at a time. Back when they did accept smaller orders they had minimum quantity requirements that worked out to an outlay of around $15 - $20K for an opening order. It was too big an ask for me when I was starting out.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you @AbbaDatDeHat. I appreciate the warm welcome.

Winchester was pretty adamant about not selling to new customers as of May 2023. I called them and begged, even planned on visiting the factory as I am living in Tennessee to help the persuasion of proving my legitimacy as a well-meaning hatmaker.

I tried Fepsa's site, which asks for 4 prompts but when I fill those out, nothing ever comes up. I have tried pretty much every combination just for test. I emailed them recently but haven't heard back. It's only been a few days, though.

There are other sites I have found, but they seem to be either reselling Winchester or Fepsa capelines. I dont know that fore sure, but the descriptions seem really close. As far as I know only Hatco (Stetson, Resistol) and Winchester are the only USA manufacturers of quality control felts at the factor level, Fepsa being Portuguese.

I am aware of many custom hat-makers in the USA, and they have all told me they use either Winchester (old customers) or Fepsa. Those that use Fepsa usually say their hats are made of "euro hare" (which is fancy way of saying "rabbit")

I know this is a hot topic these days, and perhaps, a well-kept secret among hatters, but do you (or anyone else reading) know where to get 100% beaver capelines these days?

Thank you! Lil Grizz has been very informative in the past via his YouTube channel. I saw him wet felt a capeline there. So much is available on YouTube about felting wool, especially by makers a fascinators (sp?) and women’s British hats. I imagine the process is similar for rabbit/beaver/nutria?

Your hats look great!

Just FYI: European hare is very different from rabbit. Hares and rabbits are not only distinct species they also produce very different fur felt. Hare is what is usually used for velour and other longer hair finishes. Greeley Hat Works uses 100% hare for their standard grade hats. I have one pure hare fur felt dress hat and it’s definitely better than my 100% rabbit hats from the same hatter. However, hare felt is most commonly found as a blend with other furs. This can be as a cost cutting measure, or I believe more commonly to achieve the desired characteristics in the finished hat. Hare is more expensive than rabbit.

FEPSA offers rabbit, hare, and beaver as well as blends of multiple fur types. 100% beaver is not always the best for all hats, but as you are making westerns it’s probably your best option for quality…with nutria a very close second (and some will argue it doesn’t give anything up to beaver). Sunrise gets in regular supplies of nutria (aka coypu) at fairly reasonable prices. They also sell out of the most popular colors fairly fast, but they have been restocking a couple times a year.

https://www.sunrisehatsupplies.com/collections/coypu-hat-bodies/products/230-gram-coypu-hat-bodies

Some hatters have had problems with nutria mottling, so follow the directions from Sunrise when working with their felt. One of my favorite hatters has made me a half dozen hats from Sunrise nutria and only had one that showed issues and Sunrise replaced it free of charge.

Brent

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Your hats look great!

Just FYI: European hare is very different from rabbit. Hares and rabbits are not only distinct species they also produce very different fur felt. Hare is what is usually used for velour and other longer hair finishes. Greeley Hat Works uses 100% hare for their standard grade hats. I have one pure hare fur felt dress hat and it’s definitely better than my 100% rabbit hats from the same hatter. However, hare felt is most commonly found as a blend with other furs. This can be as a cost cutting measure, or I believe more commonly to achieve the desired characteristics in the finished hat. Hare is more expensive than rabbit.

FEPSA offers rabbit, hare, and beaver as well as blends of multiple fur types. 100% beaver is not always the best for all hats, but as you are making westerns it’s probably your best option for quality…with nutria a very close second (and some will argue it doesn’t give anything up to beaver). Sunrise gets in regular supplies of nutria (aka coypu) at fairly reasonable prices. They also sell out of the most popular colors fairly fast, but they have been restocking a couple times a year.

https://www.sunrisehatsupplies.com/collections/coypu-hat-bodies/products/230-gram-coypu-hat-bodies

Some hatters have had problems with nutria mottling, so follow the directions from Sunrise when working with their felt. One of my favorite hatters has made me a half dozen hats from Sunrise nutria and only had one that showed issues and Sunrise replaced it free of charge.

Brent

Thank you, Brent. I appreciate it.

 

[belfastboy]

Your hats look great!

Just FYI: European hare is very different from rabbit. Hares and rabbits are not only distinct species they also produce very different fur felt. Hare is what is usually used for velour and other longer hair finishes. Greeley Hat Works uses 100% hare for their standard grade hats. I have one pure hare fur felt dress hat and it’s definitely better than my 100% rabbit hats from the same hatter. However, hare felt is most commonly found as a blend with other furs. This can be as a cost cutting measure, or I believe more commonly to achieve the desired characteristics in the finished hat. Hare is more expensive than rabbit.

FEPSA offers rabbit, hare, and beaver as well as blends of multiple fur types. 100% beaver is not always the best for all hats, but as you are making westerns it’s probably your best option for quality…with nutria a very close second (and some will argue it doesn’t give anything up to beaver). Sunrise gets in regular supplies of nutria (aka coypu) at fairly reasonable prices. They also sell out of the most popular colors fairly fast, but they have been restocking a couple times a year.

https://www.sunrisehatsupplies.com/collections/coypu-hat-bodies/products/230-gram-coypu-hat-bodies

Some hatters have had problems with nutria mottling, so follow the directions from Sunrise when working with their felt. One of my favorite hatters has made me a half dozen hats from Sunrise nutria and only had one that showed issues and Sunrise replaced it free of charge.

Brent

Millinery Whse sells a 50/50 beaver/rabbit blend in western weight. I really like it and it is a bit cheaper than 100% beaver with not a huge drop off in quality. Drawback is limited colour selection and supply.

 

[dmeist]

Just finished this hat last week. Nutri, from Sunrise Hats. I like working with them and have not had any issues.
This was the 160g weight. I like the thickness for fedoras.

 

[Yahoody]

Hi Matt,
Your hats look good! Glad the write up helps you. That was the idea. A journey and connections worth making are to Elko NV, mid winter, out in the middle of no where If I lived anywhere near Winchester in Tenn. I'd be over there at least once a month buying all them boys lunch as to slide me a few felts!

Once a year (usually) Roy Jackson and Chas Michell put on a hat building class there.
https://jaxonbilthats.com/

https://www.nationalcowboypoetrygathering.org/ticketed-shows-and-workshops

You also get a "free" beaver blank out of the deal. Last time I paid the entry fee, I got three blanks (and paid for everyone of them)! That made the trip actually worthwhile to me, and I am not that far away, thankfully.

But it is really amazing how much fun it is to work on a quality beaver blank. I look back at some of my original efforts now and chuckle. Good thing for me that a beaver blank can be rebuilt many times over! Good luck to you! Keep post photos of your newest hats.

 

[belfastboy]

Hi Matt,
Your hats look good! Glad the write up helps you. That was the idea. A journey and connections worth making are to Elko NV, mid winter, out in the middle of no where If I lived anywhere near Winchester in Tenn. I'd be over there at least once a month buying all them boys lunch as to slide me a few felts!

Once a year (usually) Roy Jackson and Chas Michell put on a hat building class there.
https://jaxonbilthats.com/

https://www.nationalcowboypoetrygathering.org/ticketed-shows-and-workshops

You also get a "free" beaver blank out of the deal. Last time I paid the entry fee, I got three blanks (and paid for everyone of them)! That made the trip actually worthwhile to me, and I am not that far away, thankfully.

But it is really amazing how much fun it is to work on a quality beaver blank. I look back at some of my original efforts now and chuckle. Good thing for me that a beaver blank can be rebuilt many times over! Good luck to you! Keep post photos of your newest hats.

At Winchester there is a very nice young woman in sales that I have spoken to a few times. She is immune to my charms and won't sell to me but she has let me down gently each time. If nothing else not getting the felts you at least can have a pleasant lunch with a nice young woman.

 

[Yahoody]

The gentleman I order from @ Winchester is indeed a gentleman Been awhile now, so may be things have changed. But last I checked, good BBQ was still a thing in Tenn. No one turns down free BBQ do they?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Millinery Whse sells a 50/50 beaver/rabbit blend in western weight. I really like it and it is a bit cheaper than 100% beaver with not a huge drop off in quality. Drawback is limited colour selection and supply.

I’m very impressed with my FEPSA 50/50 fedora. It’s very vintage-like and molds and remolds like a dream. I wouldn’t hesitate to go for another of those.

At my point with a collection that is way too large, I’m not interested in compromising to get a hat that is nominally less expensive. I know availability is a huge concern now, but I’d rather wait and get just what I want. If the 50/50 Ukrainian felts are just slightly inferior to the 100% beaver I’ll wait for the all beaver.

I’m selling more hats than I’m buying these days and trying to get what I’m keeping to a reasonable number and have all be hats be those without compromises. I should say several of your creations are in my “permanent collection.”

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Just finished this hat last week. Nutri, from Sunrise Hats. I like working with them and have not had any issues.
This was the 160g weight. I like the thickness for fedoras.

Very nice. The 160g felt does indeed make a great hat and in the average sizes often has enough felt for a brim approaching 3 ½ inches with a 6” crown. I can usually get 3 ¼” of brim with a 6 ⅜” open crown (size 61.5cm). Makes a great dress western, fedora, etc. The 230g western bodies are great for firmer westerns.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Hi Matt,
Your hats look good! Glad the write up helps you. That was the idea. A journey and connections worth making are to Elko NV, mid winter, out in the middle of no where If I lived anywhere near Winchester in Tenn. I'd be over there at least once a month buying all them boys lunch as to slide me a few felts!

Once a year (usually) Roy Jackson and Chas Michell put on a hat building class there.
https://jaxonbilthats.com/

https://www.nationalcowboypoetrygathering.org/ticketed-shows-and-workshops

You also get a "free" beaver blank out of the deal. Last time I paid the entry fee, I got three blanks (and paid for everyone of them)! That made the trip actually worthwhile to me, and I am not that far away, thankfully.

But it is really amazing how much fun it is to work on a quality beaver blank. I look back at some of my original efforts now and chuckle. Good thing for me that a beaver blank can be rebuilt many times over! Good luck to you! Keep post photos of your newest hats.

Thank you, @Yahoody! I'm not making your favorite beavers but we are on the same page as far as use and style. Ill graduate some day. Big praise coming from you, though. Honestly, I will probably go over to Winchester and chat up Greg. One more shot at getting into the club there cannot hurt.

By way of my own hat-making, I have a 6-inch #52 block in the mail coming my way and I am about to make a Silverbelly monster.

I have spoken with Roy and he was talking about this class. He seems like a really good guy. It is great knowing there are so many others out there making hats. With so many folks looking for beaver felt (I think it was said earlier that hundreds of folks were on a now-defunct Winchester waitlist), it seems like the market would be pretty saturated for hat-makers. I, personally, have a list of about 100 hatmakers that I have found outside of TFL, who at least have some presence on the internet, and they all seemed slammed with orders. Seems like there is a large market for hats nowadays, a good hatter could have plenty of orders to keep busy. All of you seem flush with custom orders and rebuilds.

Lastly, if the beaver felt wells really have dried up, there is a huge gap between supply and demand. I say we band together, corral the hundreds of old waitlisters at Winchester, get TFL excited, go in together and get a little space mid-continent, contract out some trappers and manufacture our own felts. From the ground up like the old Middle Age hatters sans mercury. A lot of you guys are retired. We can do this Surely, some billionaire hat aficionado will back us with capital. We will eventually take it through an IPO, issue stock, and we can all become financially sated, full-time Fedora Loungers. Doesn't that sound nice?

 

[Yahoody]

Sounds like the prefect project for Brett, so he can get some of that soft felt he always talks about

 

[belfastboy]

The gentleman I order from @ Winchester is indeed a gentleman Been awhile now, so may be things have changed. But last I checked, good BBQ was still a thing in Tenn. No one turns down free BBQ do they?

I know I don't!

 

[belfastboy]

Thank you, @Yahoody! I'm not making your favorite beavers but we are on the same page as far as use and style. Ill graduate some day. Big praise coming from you, though. Honestly, I will probably go over to Winchester and chat up Greg. One more shot at getting into the club there cannot hurt.

By way of my own hat-making, I have a 6-inch #52 block in the mail coming my way and I am about to make a Silverbelly monster.

I have spoken with Roy and he was talking about this class. He seems like a really good guy. It is great knowing there are so many others out there making hats. With so many folks looking for beaver felt (I think it was said earlier that hundreds of folks were on a now-defunct Winchester waitlist), it seems like the market would be pretty saturated for hat-makers. I, personally, have a list of about 100 hatmakers that I have found outside of TFL, who at least have some presence on the internet, and they all seemed slammed with orders. Seems like there is a large market for hats nowadays, a good hatter could have plenty of orders to keep busy. All of you seem flush with custom orders and rebuilds.

Lastly, if the beaver felt wells really have dried up, there is a huge gap between supply and demand. I say we band together, corral the hundreds of old waitlisters at Winchester, get TFL excited, go in together and get a little space mid-continent, contract out some trappers and manufacture our own felts. From the ground up like the old Middle Age hatters sans mercury. A lot of you guys are retired. We can do this Surely, some billionaire hat aficionado will back us with capital. We will eventually take it through an IPO, issue stock, and we can all become financially sated, full-time Fedora Loungers. Doesn't that sound nice?

Winchester in the last 18 months or so has actively been shedding hatters that have only been sporadic buyers. I know of two hatters that are no longer on their allowed buyers list. Tim@purebeaver was reselling Winchester at one point but they cut him off once they found out he was actively wholesaling their felts. So Tim switched up and focused solely on FEPSA.

 

[Yahoody]

All this just got me thinking about good felt and good hats again. I gave away a 6x Resistol a couple of years ago. I had cut the brim down at least twice. The hat was still a nice hat just too small for what I wear now. But also 53 years old!

The Bailey 4X is just 30 years old. It mostly sits in a box today. Still a wonderful hat and felt.

The rest of the 100% beaver blanks I own? Oldest is now going on 35 yeras old. Seldom worn in nasty conditions and still looks more or less new.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you, @Yahoody! I'm not making your favorite beavers but we are on the same page as far as use and style. Ill graduate some day. Big praise coming from you, though. Honestly, I will probably go over to Winchester and chat up Greg. One more shot at getting into the club there cannot hurt.

By way of my own hat-making, I have a 6-inch #52 block in the mail coming my way and I am about to make a Silverbelly monster.

I have spoken with Roy and he was talking about this class. He seems like a really good guy. It is great knowing there are so many others out there making hats. With so many folks looking for beaver felt (I think it was said earlier that hundreds of folks were on a now-defunct Winchester waitlist), it seems like the market would be pretty saturated for hat-makers. I, personally, have a list of about 100 hatmakers that I have found outside of TFL, who at least have some presence on the internet, and they all seemed slammed with orders. Seems like there is a large market for hats nowadays, a good hatter could have plenty of orders to keep busy. All of you seem flush with custom orders and rebuilds.

Lastly, if the beaver felt wells really have dried up, there is a huge gap between supply and demand. I say we band together, corral the hundreds of old waitlisters at Winchester, get TFL excited, go in together and get a little space mid-continent, contract out some trappers and manufacture our own felts. From the ground up like the old Middle Age hatters sans mercury. A lot of you guys are retired. We can do this Surely, some billionaire hat aficionado will back us with capital. We will eventually take it through an IPO, issue stock, and we can all become financially sated, full-time Fedora Loungers. Doesn't that sound nice?

You seriously need to give nutria a try. It’s closely related to beaver and Stetson and other have. Even making fantastic hats from it for the last 130+ years.

Otherwise, 100% beaver hat bodies are readily available…if you’re willing to pay Tim’s price. On the positive side, the FEPSA pure beaver felt is usually regarded as superior to what Winchester makes. On the negative, his current pricing is over $400 for a single hat body.