Making a Western hat by hand?

[belfastboy]

In business for yourself, once you reach a certain comfort level the money you pay yourself will soon no longer be a motivator. To sustain growth for your company you have to come up with other motivators besides giving yourself yet another raise. People who work for others sometimes don’t have that drive to do their best for either their employer, their families or themselves. That’s why some people drive a Lamborghini & some a Fiat Panda. That’s why some people wear a Rolex & others wear a knockoff. The one wearing a knockoff is all about fashion.

Off topic & Im not a hat maker so I’ll drop out now.

I consider myself fortunate in that I do not have to sell hats to pay the rent. I make hats out of passion and a desire to be the best hatter I can be. I have always been driven to be the best version of myself in whatever I engage......in this point of my life it is hats. I wear a legit Rolex, it keeps pretty good time but every decade or so I have to spend another $1000 to get it serviced by Rolex.... doesn't necessarily make sense but the company I worked for bought it for me as I made them so much money one year they felt they owed me a bauble. At certain points in my life the watch was worth more than my car. I could not fit into either a Lambo or a Panda.

 

[Yahoody]

Always an interesting conversation

I've never wanted to build a lot of hats. Saw very quickly to build a really high-quality hat for everyone, the investment was more than I was willing to pay. If you don't make that $ investment and take the time to learn how to use the tools, and the skills from a good hatter you'll always make what I'd consider a sub-par hat. From what I have seen of most modern hat shops, few have ALL the tools needed to build a decent western hat. Even then the shop owner or his staff may not know how to properly use the tools they have. Likely doesn't matter to most.

And why most of my own hats have been rebuilt several times eventually having the sweat sewn in by machine.

Finding a good hat maker that is willing to teach you and "give" you the hat bodies to learn on is a whole other story.

Like I said, "I now chuckle at my early efforts."

Whole lot of hat makers these days. Sadly, damn few actual hatters.

 

[belfastboy]

Just received an email from Hornskov. He just received a shipment of 100% beaver western weight felts in Silverbelly. If I am using his price calculator correctly I can order this hat, basic open crown with vintage grosgrain ribbon for $425US including shipping. That is not that much more than my cost for the felt...just the cost of the felt.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Just received an email from Hornskov. He just received a shipment of 100% beaver western weight felts in Silverbelly. If I am using his price calculator correctly I can order this hat, basic open crown with vintage grosgrain ribbon for $425US including shipping. That is not that much more than my cost for the felt...just the cost of the felt.

I’ve seen the same thing at Hufvud. Their FEPSA felt prices don’t reflect the steep increase in prices we’ve seen in the US. ???

 

[mattsteinfeld]

So I blocked a hat today with a capeline from Millinery Wearhouse (Ukraine felt). The problem I faced was the 6” crown of the block I was using (biggest block I’ve used yet) left some room still where the brim meets the crown. I needed to get the hat body another inch down to reach the bottom of the block. The brim came hard as a rock so I wetted and steamed in order to turn part of the brim into the base of the crown to get the block covered to its base. But still not sucked against the block.

This left a rather loose capeline around the base of the crown (where the sweatband would be) which I then tied off with cord. This caused a lot of bunching (brim not flat).

I know Westerns are bigger, thicker, and harder to block than dress but…

My question to the hatters: At this stage, how important (to you) is a flat brim at the point of blocking? Or, do you worry about it later, ironing out after the 24-48hr “blocked-crown drying period”?

 

[belfastboy]

So I blocked a hat today with a capeline from Millinery Wearhouse (Ukraine felt). The problem I faced was the 6” crown of the block I was using (biggest block I’ve used yet) left some room still where the brim meets the crown. I needed to get the hat body another inch down to reach the bottom of the block. The brim came hard as a rock so I wetted and steamed in order to turn part of the brim into the base of the crown to get the block covered to its base. But still not sucked against the block.

This left a rather loose capeline around the base of the crown (where the sweatband would be) which I then tied off with cord. This caused a lot of bunching (brim not flat).

I know Westerns are bigger, thicker, and harder to block than dress but…

My question to the hatters: At this stage, how important (to you) is a flat brim at the point of blocking? Or, do you worry about it later, ironing out after the 24-48hr “blocked-crown drying period”?

Suggestion: In order to get what you are seeking you need to steam the felt much more than you are doing. Firstly, soak the felt in hot water until it is drenched through. Then using your JIffy Steamer envelope the felt in a heavy plastic bag. Then steam it for at least 15 minutes or until you have steamed out the factory brim break. Then it will be a bit easier to move the crown down. If you don't do the above you will be working very very hard to do the almost impossible.
Then, once you have blocked it....use your fingers to smooth out the puckers in the felt. The better job you do the easier it will be once it is dried. You will likely have to iron the brim 4 or 5 times or more to rid yourself of the wrinkles/puckers.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Suggestion: In order to get what you are seeking you need to steam the felt much more than you are doing. Firstly, soak the felt in hot water until it is drenched through. Then using your JIffy Steamer envelope the felt in a heavy plastic bag. Then steam it for at least 15 minutes or until you have steamed out the factory brim break. Then it will be a bit easier to move the crown down. If you don't do the above you will be working very very hard to do the almost impossible.
Then, once you have blocked it....use your fingers to smooth out the puckers in the felt. The better job you do the easier it will be once it is dried. You will likely have to iron the brim 4 or 5 times or more to rid yourself of the wrinkles/puckers.

Thanks @belfastboy,
As a work around I soaked one capeline and basically rolled up the brim taco style until the capeline was all brim and and about 2 inches of crown, then "rolled" it on to the block, then puller downer, etc. Otherwise I couldn't get that hard crease at the bottom of the block. I desperately need a tolliker as well.

I think I just needed permission to soak the capeline. Felt kind of wrong (no pun intended) seeing so many dry blocks done online (which was the extent of my training!) But then again a lot of those hatters are working with dress felt, 6" blocks, and smaller capelines. Seems much easier to block that way. These have a 5" brim and 6" crown after blocking!

Thank you.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks @belfastboy,
As a work around I soaked one capeline and basically rolled up the brim taco style until the capeline was all brim and and about 2 inches of crown, then "rolled" it on to the block, then puller downer, etc. Otherwise I couldn't get that hard crease at the bottom of the block. I desperately need a tolliker as well.

I think I just needed permission to soak the capeline. Felt kind of wrong (no pun intended) seeing so many dry blocks done online (which was the extent of my training!) But then again a lot of those hatters are working with dress felt, 6" blocks, and smaller capelines. Seems much easier to block that way. These have a 5" brim and 6" crown after blocking!

Thank you.

I was fortunate to get training from a master hatter. His advice is that most hatters do not use enough steam and water in the blocking. One it makes it harder to effectively block and secondly it gives you a shitty blocking....not enough stretch over the block. Most of the hatters I view online do an inferior job of blocking a hat. I work mostly with dress weight and the same principles apply....steam out the factory brim break so the felt is totally limp. If you are blocking multiple felts in a day you better do this lest you risk carpal tunnel syndrome and serious damage to your body.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks @belfastboy,
As a work around I soaked one capeline and basically rolled up the brim taco style until the capeline was all brim and and about 2 inches of crown, then "rolled" it on to the block, then puller downer, etc. Otherwise I couldn't get that hard crease at the bottom of the block. I desperately need a tolliker as well.

I think I just needed permission to soak the capeline. Felt kind of wrong (no pun intended) seeing so many dry blocks done online (which was the extent of my training!) But then again a lot of those hatters are working with dress felt, 6" blocks, and smaller capelines. Seems much easier to block that way. These have a 5" brim and 6" crown after blocking!

Thank you.

I use special gloves that can handle heat and give me good grip. If the felt is hot enough to burn your hands then you are approaching the right way. If you can handle it without special gloves then it ain't steamed enough.

 

[Yahoody]

Limiting yourself to dry blocking only is nonsense. But getting a nice felt hotter than my hands can handle.....I'd really prefer not to go there.

Heat and water are just continuing the felting process. Might be something you want to do. Might not be.

 

[belfastboy]

Limiting yourself to dry blocking only is nonsense. But getting a nice felt hotter than my hands can handle.....I'd really prefer not to go there.

Heat adn a water are just continuing the felting process. Might be somethign you want to do. Might not be.

In my experience after blocking hundreds of hats the wet blocking and steam do not affect the original felting. They just make it easier to get an effective stretch over the block. If I am working with a 95gram beaver then I don't have to go to that extreme but If I am blocking a 230 gr western weight on to a 6" high 63cm long oval block then it needs all the steam I can give it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

In my experience after blocking hundreds of hats the wet blocking and steam do not affect the original felting. They just make it easier to get an effective stretch over the block. If I am working with a 95gram beaver then I don't have to go to that extreme but If I am blocking a 230 gr western weight on to a 6" high 63cm long oval block then it needs all the steam I can give it.

I think I see myself in this. Sorry for causing so much trouble (but not really).

 

[belfastboy]

I think I see myself in this. Sorry for causing so much trouble (but not really).

I think the hardest felt I ever worked on was the western weight Ukraine rabbit in bottle green I made up for you. But some of the difficulty was due to not steaming it well enough. Nothing has been that hard ever since......thankfully!!

 

[belfastboy]

I was fortunate to get training from a master hatter. His advice is that most hatters do not use enough steam and water in the blocking. One it makes it harder to effectively block and secondly it gives you a shitty blocking....not enough stretch over the block. Most of the hatters I view online do an inferior job of blocking a hat. I work mostly with dress weight and the same principles apply....steam out the factory brim break so the felt is totally limp. If you are blocking multiple felts in a day you better do this lest you risk carpal tunnel syndrome and serious damage to your body.

I know two hatters that had serious trouble with carpel tunnel, one in the hands and the other in his forearm. The only cure is rest. One hatter retired well before his time and the other has to take time off every so often to let it heal. It is not too bad if you are blocking a felt now and then but if it is something you do everyday then a hatter really has to take care lest in lay you up.

 

[Yahoody]

I am all for wetting and seaming hat bodies for all the reasons you mention Belfast. May be I misunderstood what was being written.

All the hats I have built from scratch are Winchester's 100% beaver. Dozens, but not over a hundred. I can guarantee you that if you add enough heat and water to those blanks they will continue to felt. I have brought 6/7 " crowns down to 5" or less by doing so (intentionally a couple of times) And had 5"/4 3/4" brims come into 4.25 /4.5". Doesn't take a lot of heat or water to get it done. Brims take more work to shrink than a crown. But both will. Nothing wrong with continuing the felting process if you want to. Not much fun if you didn't know it was going to happen.

I have also built hats by only dry blocking and seen dozens of decent (didn't say nice) done that way. Easy way to rip a stubborn felt body if you are trying to get it on a block is leaving the felt dry. Or if you are teaching a class and you want it to last 3 days, when making the same hat is only a 4 hr job

I don't built a hat that I don't get the bank wet and steamed. But I don't soak them and I am obviously more careful with the steam than, may be, has been suggested. I also fire ever blank at least once before I am done. Gazillion ways to build a hat. None of them "wrong" per say. Everyone develops their own method. If it works for you, all the better.

 

[belfastboy]

I am all for wetting and seaming hat bodies for all the reasons you mention Belfast. May be I misunderstood what was being written.

All the hats I have built from scratch are Winchester's 100% beaver. Dozens, but not over a hundred. I can guarantee you that if you add enough heat and water to those blanks they will continue to felt. I have brought 6/7 " crowns down to 5" or less by doing so (intentionally a couple of times) And had 5"/4 3/4" brims come into 4.25 /4.5". Doesn't take a lot of heat or water to get it done. Brims take more work to shrink than a crown. But both will. Nothing wrong with continuing the felting process if you want to. Not much fun if you didn't know it was going to happen.

I have also built hats by only dry blocking and seen dozens of decent (didn't say nice) done that way. Easy way to rip a stubborn felt body if you are trying to get it on a block is leaving the felt dry. Or if you are teaching a class and you want it to last 3 days, when making the same hat is only a 4 hr job

I don't built a hat that I don't get the bank wet and steamed. But I don't soak them and I am obviously more careful with the steam than, may be, has been suggested. I also fire ever blank at least once before I am done. Gazillion ways to build a hat. None of them "wrong" per say. Everyone develops their own method. If it works for you, all the better.

I have only worked with a few dozen Winchester felts and have not experienced any extra felting out of the blocking.
I do double block -double pounce the Winchester to avoid the mottling tendencies they have.

The biggest issue for me as I block felts to 6" so I am usually stealing felt from the brim to add crown height. Moving the felt on the block past the modest factory brim break is the difficult part. And I find that unless the felt is steamed very well getting over that hump is damn hard plus it is so much harder to remove the puckers created in the felt. Also, lots of steam is required to get the little dome created at the very top of the block completely removed and totally flat. A sure sign of a poorly blocked hat is that almost indiscernable little bubble at the very top of the crown.

I have never torn a felt as I have never dry blocked one.

When I am teaching a class the students need to come in 3-4 days before the class starts to choose the felt, the style and to block it. Then when the class begins the felts are ready to work on and it gives us the full 3 days to create the finished hat.

But as you say we all have our ways of doing it......whatever works for you.

 

[Yahoody]

Didn't know you taught a hat class. So, just to be clear, I wasn't referencing your class.

The dry blocking was done in two classes I attended. During the 2nd class, it wasn't long before I headed to the bathroom and solved that problem. Instructor walked in while I was wetting the felt in the sink. Not sure if was curious as to what I was doing or just needed to use the facilities.

I greeted him politely feeling a little chagrined to be honest. But never a word spoken about what I was doing.

Not sure why anyone would dry block a hat.

And yes, I agree. Water and steam will generally get what is required from the crown on a block. I seldom build on anything but a 2 string body so getting enough crown has never been an issue.

 

[belfastboy]

Didn't know you taught a hat class. So, just to be clear, I wasn't referencing your class.

The dry blocking was done in two classes I attended. During the 2nd class I attended, it wasn;t long before headed to the bathroom and solved that problem. Instructor walked in while I was wetting the felt in the sink. Not sure if was curious as to what I was doing or just needed to use the facilities.

I greeted him politely feeling a little chagrined to be honest. But never a word spoken about what I was doing.

Not sure why anyone would dry block a hat.

And yes, I agree. Water and steam will generally get what is required from the crown on a block. I seldom build on anything but a 2 string body so getting enough crown has never been an issue.

I have major trouble with Winchester dress weight even with Yellow string sizing getting 6" crown and decent brim on a larger size head. The lady in my last class (size 55cm reg oval) achieved a 6" crown but came under her desired 3" brim. We settled for about 2 3/4" with zero wastage to speak of on the trimming of the brim.

That is why I like the Ukraine felts, both rabbit and beaver, as their capeline size can accommodate most everything. Quality overall is better than Winchester....mostly mottling issues with Winchester. But Winchester does have a broader colour offering even when the Ukraine beaver is in stock. Winchester also enjoys a huge price advantage over everybody else.

Many hatters that show procedures on YouTube essentially dry block their felts. A bit of a spritz and a flash of steam and away they go.
I paid for a live demo from the British Hat Guild of a top Brit hatter on felt hat making. It was about 90 minutes long and he spent the first half wrestling with the blocking of the felt. It was painful to watch plus it was live so I couldn't fast forward. He wasn't even trying to steal felt from the brim it was just to fully pull the felt down the full height of the block. He barely spritzed and steamed the felt.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

@belfastboy Most poeple who are dry blocking, that I have seen, are working with dress weight and doing fedoras. From what I have read @Yahoody is working primarily with his own cowboy hats in Western weight so it makes sense he would never dry block. Dry blocking seems crazy easy on videos of guys like Art Fawcett and other masters, but that is because they aren't using Western weight with huge brims. They block on 6" #52 and the brim is tiny. Further yanking on a 5" brim is much tougher than a 3.5" during a pull down.

That pocket or reverse demple that @belfastboy wrote about is a main result of not getting a serious pull, which I have yet to do without a total breakdown of the shape the Western capelines via water.

A problem I face is that to cover the 6" block, saturation is required, but once I get the crown to the base of the block, the result is often a fan or flare at the base of the block beyond the circumference of the block. After I cord the base, the line isn't hard enough (the cord isn't all the way down), so after drying, the blocked hat body size is 1 cm more than the block itself, requiring a reblock. Or, the brim is totally warped. I also might be using the wrong cording. I am currently using 550 parachord.

 

[belfastboy]

@belfastboy Most poeple who are dry blocking, that I have seen, are working with dress weight and doing fedoras. From what I have read @Yahoody is working primarily with his own cowboy hats in Western weight so it makes sense he would never dry block. Dry blocking seems crazy easy on videos of guys like Art Fawcett and other masters, but that is because they aren't using Western weight with huge brims. They block on 6" #52 and the brim is tiny. Further yanking on a 5" brim is much tougher than a 3.5" during a pull down.

That pocket or reverse demple that @belfastboy wrote about is a main result of not getting a serious pull, which I have yet to do without a total breakdown of the shape the Western capelines via water.

A problem I face is that to cover the 6" block, saturation is required, but once I get the crown to the base of the block, the result is often a fan or flare at the base of the block beyond the circumference of the block. After I cord the base, the line isn't hard enough (the cord isn't all the way down), so after drying, the blocked hat body size is 1 cm more than the block itself, requiring a reblock. Or, the brim is totally warped. I also might be using the wrong cording. I am currently using 550 parachord.

First of all Art would never dry block a felt. I work with mostly dress weight and anything other than the 95gr FEPSA which I still give a very generous spritz plus lots of steaming I wet block.

That includes the Winchester, Ukraine 160gr and Tonak 140 gram bodies i use. I just get a much better blocking without having to wrestle the damn felt.

The cord must be absolutely non stretch. If your cord has any stretch to it then it relaxes and you lose tension. I mostly use the silicon blocking springs. I find they work ever so much better and regardless of whether I need to steal crown from the brim can block a felt in minutes with minimal effort. I rarely have to use a puller downer.