Making a Western hat by hand?

[belfastboy]

You seriously need to give nutria a try. It’s closely related to beaver and Stetson and other have. Even making fantastic hats from it for the last 130+ years.

Otherwise, 100% beaver hat bodies are readily available…if you’re willing to pay Tim’s price. On the positive side, the FEPSA pure beaver felt is usually regarded as superior to what Winchester makes. On the negative, his current pricing is over $400 for a single hat body.

I spoke with a hatter that speaks highly of the Sunrise Nutria. She just began to work them and reports no problems with the dye penetration. Perhaps they have worked out the quality issues that I experienced a few years back. Perhaps it is time for me to give them another go.

 

[belfastboy]

All this just got me thinking about good felt and good hats again. I gave away a 6x Resistol a couple of years ago. I had cut the brim down at least twice. The hat was still a nice hat just too small for what I wear now. But also 53 years old!

The Bailey 4X is just 30 years old. It mostly sits in a box today. Still a wonderful hat and felt.
View attachment 521865

The rest of the 100% beaver blanks I own? Oldest is now going on 35 yeras old. Seldom worn in nasty conditions and still looks more or less new.
View attachment 521864

I liken good felt to unfired clay. Good felt is so moldable regardless of its age.....water and copious steam and it is like working with new felt. I restored a 95 year old Borsalino and the felt came back to new. Such a pleasure to work with.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

You seriously need to give nutria a try. It’s closely related to beaver and Stetson and other have. Even making fantastic hats from it for the last 130+ years.

Otherwise, 100% beaver hat bodies are readily available…if you’re willing to pay Tim’s price. On the positive side, the FEPSA pure beaver felt is usually regarded as superior to what Winchester makes. On the negative, his current pricing is over $400 for a single hat body.

If a person is in the market for a 100% beaver hat from Stetson, say an El Presidente, or further a Diamante, and are willing to pay $1000+ for a hat, then I don't see paying over $400 for a hat body to be expensive especially if one has the tools to make a hat themselves, or, even more logical, for a client who will also likely be willing to pay $1000+ for a custom hat. After all, if a client is willing to look over a Stetson for a custom build, they are going to be willing anyway. Paying $400 for a hat body is a steal if you can make it into a $1000 dollar hat for your own use or sell it for more, which is pretty standard these days. If someone isn't a hat maker, it doesnt really matter what a body costs because they are shelling out the $1000 anyway. But if one is able, buying the parts and doing the labor oneself seems very economical to me at $400. I'm just happy Tim is around to distribute from Portugal. I wish there was a Winchester version of Tim!

 

[belfastboy]

If a person is in the market for a 100% beaver hat from Stetson, say an El Presidente, or further a Diamante, and are willing to pay $1000+ for a hat, then I don't see paying over $400 for a hat body to be expensive especially if one has the tools to make a hat themselves, or, even more logical, for a client who will also likely be willing to pay $1000+ for a custom hat. After all, if a client is willing to look over a Stetson for a custom build, they are going to be willing anyway. Paying $400 for a hat body is a steal if you can make it into a $1000 dollar hat for your own use or sell it for more, which is pretty standard these days. If someone isn't a hat maker, it doesnt really matter what a body costs because they are shelling out the $1000 anyway. But if one is able, buying the parts and doing the labor oneself seems very economical to me at $400. I'm just happy Tim is around to distribute from Portugal. I wish there was a Winchester version of Tim!

Custom hat pricing is all over the place. Master hatters like Mike @NorthWest and Michael Gannon still charge just $400 for a 100% beaver hat and I would challenge anyone to find a better made hat. In the fedora andwestern world it is like a fashion item where the maker charges what his 'brand' allows. Given there are so few felt manufacturers in the world all hatters are using the identical felts. Top quality sweats run about $10 each and even vintage grosgrain ribbon will only run you about $10-15 per hat.

Throw in another $10 tops for a liner and all hatters have the same base costs if they are buying from Winchester. If you cannot then you buy from Tim and while I don't know Winchesters current costs I do know they have risen just a few % in the last few years so I suspect they are running less than half of FEPSA.

Then it becomes a matter of charging what you think the market will bear ....what value will they place on your brand. Like the difference between the $5 Kirkland Tshirt and the $50 one with the Armani label....in the end both are cotton Tshirts. If you are a new hatter buying FEPSA you have a distinct disadvantage in your costing over those offering Winchester as you are not likely able to charge $1000 plus for your work.....not yet at least.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

If a person is in the market for a 100% beaver hat from Stetson, say an El Presidente, or further a Diamante, and are willing to pay $1000+ for a hat, then I don't see paying over $400 for a hat body to be expensive especially if one has the tools to make a hat themselves, or, even more logical, for a client who will also likely be willing to pay $1000+ for a custom hat. After all, if a client is willing to look over a Stetson for a custom build, they are going to be willing anyway. Paying $400 for a hat body is a steal if you can make it into a $1000 dollar hat for your own use or sell it for more, which is pretty standard these days. If someone isn't a hat maker, it doesnt really matter what a body costs because they are shelling out the $1000 anyway. But if one is able, buying the parts and doing the labor oneself seems very economical to me at $400. I'm just happy Tim is around to distribute from Portugal. I wish there was a Winchester version of Tim!

But it does matter. If I want a custom western from Winchester’s beaver I’m paying $500. If I want the same hatter to make the same hat from FEPSA I’m paying $850. It absolutely makes a difference to me.

For some reason, it’s common for western hat makers to have this odd pricing where they charge twice as much or more for a beaver hat than they do a rabbit even when the materials cost difference was $45 and the labor remains the same. I don’t use those hatters. To me, it’s a red flag that they are overcharging….just speaking for myself.

I’m also skeptical about how busy some of these hat makers are. A few years back, I ordered a custom western hat that took several months to arrive, I figured the wait was because he had a long queue. The hat arrived in an unacceptable condition, and the maker immediately agreed to refund it after I returned it. I returned the hat, and after over a month I still have not received a refund. I contacted the hatter and was told he was waiting for someone else to purchase a hat so he would have money in his PayPal account to refund me. All I’m saying, is that at the $1000 and above price range I don’t think there is as much business as one might believe.

 

[belfastboy]

But it does matter. If I want a custom western from Winchester’s beaver I’m paying $500. If I want the same hatter to make the same hat from FEPSA I’m paying $850. It absolutely makes a difference to me.

For some reason, it’s common for western hat makers to have this odd pricing where they charge twice as much or more for a beaver hat than they do a rabbit even when the materials cost difference was $45 and the labor remains the same. I don’t use those hatters. To me, it’s a red flag that they are overcharging….just speaking for myself.

I’m also skeptical about how busy some of these hat makers are. A few years back, I ordered a custom western hat that took several months to arrive, I figured the wait was because he had a long queue. The hat arrived in an unacceptable condition, and the maker immediately agreed to refund it after I returned it. I returned the hat, and after over a month I still have not received a refund. I contacted the hatter and was told he was waiting for someone else to purchase a hat so he would have money in his PayPal account to refund me. All I’m saying, is that at the $1000 and above price range I don’t think there is as much business as one might believe.

It might be the case that the Greely's of the world, the Rand's etc can command those high prices and be very busy. While the rest of market picks up the scraps.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Custom hat pricing is all over the place. Master hatters like Mike @NorthWest and Michael Gannon still charge just $400 for a 100% beaver hat and I would challenge anyone to find a better made hat. In the fedora andwestern world it is like a fashion item where the maker charges what his 'brand' allows. Given there are so few felt manufacturers in the world all hatters are using the identical felts. Top quality sweats run about $10 each and even vintage grosgrain ribbon will only run you about $10-15 per hat.

Throw in another $10 tops for a liner and all hatters have the same base costs if they are buying from Winchester. If you cannot then you buy from Tim and while I don't know Winchesters current costs I do know they have risen just a few % in the last few years so I suspect they are running less than half of FEPSA.

Then it becomes a matter of charging what you think the market will bear ....what value will they place on your brand. Like the difference between the $5 Kirkland Tshirt and the $50 one with the Armani label....in the end both are cotton Tshirts. If you are a new hatter buying FEPSA you have a distinct disadvantage in your costing over those offering Winchester as you are not likely able to charge $1000 plus for your work.....not yet at least.

There was a young woman who opened a hat shop in the county a couple years ago. She made both fedoras and westerns. I went into her shop and inquired about a custom. She did not have most of the equipment I expected to see, and did not even have a block in my size. However, she told me she could make me a hat and that her prices started at $700. She had been making hats for less than one year, did not have an adequate investment in tooling, and the work that I saw would not have been acceptable to me. I did have her do some repair work, which she thought was acceptable, but to my eye was very substandard. She has since relocated to a much bigger city, and I do not know how well she is doing.

I get the feeling that there are more individuals making custom hats now than there has been in the recent past. I’m all for this, but it floors me when they ask the same prices as Optimo or Rand’s despite not putting in the years of developing skills or the money acquiring the tooling needed. It seems like they expect to be able to charge top dollar from the very beginning.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

@belfastboy I wonder the price for Winchester for 100% beaver. It Tim (Fespa) is charging $189 for Beaver Blend and and $405 for 100% Beaver Western that just shows the demand. If Michael and Mike are charging that low, that means they are getting a great price on felt or they are losing money.

@deadlyhandsome It sounds like you have had some bad experiences with customs. I would be weary too if I got burned like that. That being said, if custom hatters have to pay $405 for 100% beaver from Tim, they are going to charge you twice as much as rabbit ($85 per capeline), at least. They have to or they are breaking even at best. Winchester buyers can afford to cut prices if they are really half the price as Tim (Fepsa). I have no idea what Winchester charges, I am just going off @belfastboy and he is probably right based on Mike and Michaels pricepoint of $400 for a hat.

I know many guys like Nathan's Custom, Tatton Baird, and The Hat Doctor are charging $1000 for custom 100% beaver hats. I would think they would have an "in" with Winchester as well considering their history. There are fedora guys in California charging even more but they have a brand and very specific clientele they have established (Hollywood, etc).

All that said, even if Winchester is charging, say, $200, for a 100% beaver capeline, that does not mean that Tim is ripping people off. If you want a very limited supply of something you are going to pay a higher price. Sounds like Winchester is doing good by their customers, though!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

For me pride of ownership has always been a motivator & a reward for a job well done. If I want an Optimo I use that as a motivator in my career/life until such a time I can make the trip to Chicago & get fitted & order exactly what I want. I don’t care if Joe Blow in Pocono can make an identical hat that looks good going by at 20mph, for 1/3rd the price. I would take no pride in owning Joe Blow’s hat.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

There was a young woman who opened a hat shop in the county a couple years ago. She made both fedoras and westerns. I went into her shop and inquired about a custom. She did not have most of the equipment I expected to see, and did not even have a block in my size. However, she told me she could make me a hat and that her prices started at $700. She had been making hats for less than one year, did not have an adequate investment in tooling, and the work that I saw would not have been acceptable to me. I did have her do some repair work, which she thought was acceptable, but to my eye was very substandard. She has since relocated to a much bigger city, and I do not know how well she is doing.

I get the feeling that there are more individuals making custom hats now than there has been in the recent past. I’m all for this, but it floors me when they ask the same prices as Optimo or Rand’s despite not putting in the years of developing skills or the money acquiring the tooling needed. It seems like they expect to be able to charge top dollar from the very beginning.

@deadlyhandsome There will always be people who do this. I would encourage you not to focus on the bad actors. I have made all of three hats, and I think they are pretty good considering @Yahoody said so(!), and I am charging people only exactly the cost of the capeline and sweatband plus the price of the block. I have 2 blocks so most people I will have to buy a block for until my collection covers customers request. Basically, I am making hats in exchange to keep the block they pay for! That being said, I have had 6 people this week ask for my hat off my head at $350. I am brand new and started two weeks ago, but if some random person in Home Depot or the antique mall wants to give me that, I am going to do that. Even if I started this month. You are focusing on bad examples of shady people. You seem to be very negative about custom hatters except for your favorites. Many of them just love it (for me, starting to love it) and want to make some money doing it (for me, I am breaking even with a block). I personally just want to see this craft live on and it has taught me so much about myself already. You have a ton of hats. Enjoy them and forget about the shady folks that let you down. There are plenty beginners out there trying to do it right. I am trying, for one. And if you give me block, I'll make you a hat of free. And for goodness sakes, find us a way into Winchester!

 

[belfastboy]

@belfastboy I wonder the price for Winchester for 100% beaver. It Tim (Fespa) is charging $189 for Beaver Blend and and $405 for 100% Beaver Western that just shows the demand. If Michael and Mike are charging that low, that means they are getting a great price on felt or they are losing money.

@deadlyhandsome It sounds like you have had some bad experiences with customs. I would be weary too if I got burned like that. That being said, if custom hatters have to pay $405 for 100% beaver from Tim, they are going to charge you twice as much as rabbit ($85 per capeline), at least. They have to or they are breaking even at best. Winchester buyers can afford to cut prices if they are really half the price as Tim (Fepsa). I have no idea what Winchester charges, I am just going off @belfastboy and he is probably right based on Mike and Michaels pricepoint of $400 for a hat.

I know many guys like Nathan's Custom, Tatton Baird, and The Hat Doctor are charging $1000 for custom 100% beaver hats. I would think they would have an "in" with Winchester as well considering their history. There are fedora guys in California charging even more but they have a brand and very specific clientele they have established (Hollywood, etc).

All that said, even if Winchester is charging, say, $200, for a 100% beaver capeline, that does not mean that Tim is ripping people off. If you want a very limited supply of something you are going to pay a higher price. Sounds like Winchester is doing good by their customers, though!

Never suggested Tim is ripping anyone off. I think the difference is in pricing between FEPSA and Winchester. Winchester has not raised their prices by much in a few years. I was buying Winchester for $90 and paying a premium by buying them from other hatters. I think their cost was $65 for dress weight. It may be $100 right now but not sure. Western weight was not that much of a premium over dress back then. The two Michaels are def not losing money. Mike at NW has a family to feed and he runs a brick and mortar shop front.

For some reason Winchester has held their pricing while Ukraine and FEPSA have greatly increased theirs. Tis a mystery.

 

[belfastboy]

For me pride of ownership has always been a motivator & a reward for a job well done. If I want an Optimo I use that as a motivator in my career/life until such a time I can make the trip to Chicago & get fitted & order exactly what I want. I don’t care if Joe Blow in Pocono can make an identical hat that looks good going by at 20mph, for 1/3rd the price. I would take no pride in owning Joe Blow’s hat.

We differ. I bought hats from Mike at NW Hats before he opened his shop front. They were brilliantly made even then and at the $200 I paid for the 100% beaver a grand bargain. I was proud to wear it then and still very proud to wear it now. But then I drive a brand new Hyundai Tucson and I am pleased to be driving it as I poke down the freeway at 20mph!

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Never suggested Tim is ripping anyone off. I think the difference is in pricing between FEPSA and Winchester. Winchester has not raised their prices by much in a few years. I was buying Winchester for $90 and paying a premium by buying them from other hatters. I think their cost was $65 for dress weight. It may be $100 right now but not sure. Western weight was not that much of a premium over dress back then. The two Michaels are def not losing money. Mike at NW has a family to feed and he runs a brick and mortar shop front.

For some reason Winchester has held their pricing while Ukraine and FEPSA have greatly increased theirs. Tis a mystery.

@belfastboy I didn't mean you said Tim is ripping people off. The post I replied to where @deadlyhandsome said above "On the negative, his [Tim's (Fepsa)] current pricing is over $400 for a single hat body."

Also, the two Michael's pricepoint on hats proves your statement that Winchester is significantly lower in price, because they can still make money if only charging $400 for a beaver hat. I am sure they are thriving. If they bought $405 capelines from Tim and sold hats for $400 they would be losing money. That's all I meant.

 

[belfastboy]

There was a young woman who opened a hat shop in the county a couple years ago. She made both fedoras and westerns. I went into her shop and inquired about a custom. She did not have most of the equipment I expected to see, and did not even have a block in my size. However, she told me she could make me a hat and that her prices started at $700. She had been making hats for less than one year, did not have an adequate investment in tooling, and the work that I saw would not have been acceptable to me. I did have her do some repair work, which she thought was acceptable, but to my eye was very substandard. She has since relocated to a much bigger city, and I do not know how well she is doing.

I get the feeling that there are more individuals making custom hats now than there has been in the recent past. I’m all for this, but it floors me when they ask the same prices as Optimo or Rand’s despite not putting in the years of developing skills or the money acquiring the tooling needed. It seems like they expect to be able to charge top dollar from the very beginning.

The issue is that new hatters can and do charge top dollar when just starting out. Making the BoHo distressed hats gives them a market used to stupid high prices for hats that are subpar.

Distressing a hat can hide all manner of flaws in the making.

There is a BoHo hatter here in my city that is charging $1100 for his product.....and he has been making hats for about 3 years....starting out charging $750.

 

[belfastboy]

@belfastboy I didn't mean you said Tim is ripping people off. The post I replied to where @deadlyhandsome said above "On the negative, his [Tim's (Fepsa)] current pricing is over $400 for a single hat body."

Also, the two Michael's pricepoint on hats proves your statement that Winchester is significantly lower in price, because they can still make money if only charging $400 for a beaver hat. I am sure they are thriving. If they bought $405 capelines from Tim and sold hats for $400 they would be losing money. That's all I meant.

OK, understood. They don't buy from Tim as they cannot afford to. Mike at NW Hats is thriving. He is a brilliant hatter earning a good living in Eugene. He has a 4-5 month wait list with many repeat clients. I own 9 of his creations and he is a brilliant hatter....one of the best. I own just 2 of Michael Gannon's creations and he too is at the top of his game.

Never suggested Tim is ripping anyone off. I think the difference is in pricing between FEPSA and Winchester. Winchester has not raised their prices by much in a few years. I was buying Winchester for $90 and paying a premium by buying them from other hatters. I think their cost was $65 for dress weight. It may be $100 right now but not sure. Western weight was not that much of a premium over dress back then. The two Michaels are def not losing money. Mike at NW has a family to feed and he runs a brick and mortar shop front.

For some reason Winchester has held their pricing while Ukraine and FEPSA have greatly increased theirs. Tis a mystery.

@deadlyhandsome There will always be people who do this. I would encourage you not to focus on the bad actors. I have made all of three hats, and I think they are pretty good considering @Yahoody said so(!), and I am charging people only exactly the cost of the capeline and sweatband plus the price of the block. I have 2 blocks so most people I will have to buy a block for until my collection covers customers request. Basically, I am making hats in exchange to keep the block they pay for! That being said, I have had 6 people this week ask for my hat off my head at $350. I am brand new and started two weeks ago, but if some random person in Home Depot or the antique mall wants to give me that, I am going to do that. Even if I started this month. You are focusing on bad examples of shady people. You seem to be very negative about custom hatters except for your favorites. Many of them just love it (for me, starting to love it) and want to make some money doing it (for me, I am breaking even with a block). I personally just want to see this craft live on and it has taught me so much about myself already. You have a ton of hats. Enjoy them and forget about the shady folks that let you down. There are plenty beginners out there trying to do it right. I am trying, for one. And if you give me block, I'll make you a hat of free. And for goodness sakes, find us a way into Winchester!

Finding a way to buy from Winchester is not a solution given they are taking upwards of a year to supply felts to their existing customer base.

 

[belfastboy]

OK, understood. They don't buy from Tim as they cannot afford to. Mike at NW Hats is thriving. He is a brilliant hatter earning a good living in Eugene. He has a 4-5 month wait list with many repeat clients. I own 9 of his creations and he is a brilliant hatter....one of the best. I own just 2 of Michael Gannon's creations and he too is at the top of his game.


Finding a way to buy from Winchester is not a solution given they are taking upwards of a year to supply felts to their existing customer base.

Also, Winchester felts have their issues. Especially for me as a fedora maker using dress weight. Even their yellow ribbon XL capelines run very small and I cannot get much crown nor brim out of them unless the clients' head is on the small side. Mottling is also an issue that is ongoing although my supply is a few years old and perhaps they have ironed out the quality issues.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

@deadlyhandsome There will always be people who do this. I would encourage you not to focus on the bad actors. I have made all of three hats, and I think they are pretty good considering @Yahoody said so(!), and I am charging people only exactly the cost of the capeline and sweatband plus the price of the block. I have 2 blocks so most people I will have to buy a block for until my collection covers customers request. Basically, I am making hats in exchange to keep the block they pay for! That being said, I have had 6 people this week ask for my hat off my head at $350. I am brand new and started two weeks ago, but if some random person in Home Depot or the antique mall wants to give me that, I am going to do that. Even if I started this month. You are focusing on bad examples of shady people. You seem to be very negative about custom hatters except for your favorites. Many of them just love it (for me, starting to love it) and want to make some money doing it (for me, I am breaking even with a block). I personally just want to see this craft live on and it has taught me so much about myself already. You have a ton of hats. Enjoy them and forget about the shady folks that let you down. There are plenty beginners out there trying to do it right. I am trying, for one. And if you give me block, I'll make you a hat of free. And for goodness sakes, find us a way into Winchester!

I’m wasn’t meaning to disparage you or to discourage you from making hats. It’s the previous talk of $1000 hats that took me in a direction that was perhaps interpreted differently than I intended.

I don’t have a problem with most custom hatters, and I’m a dyed in the wool capitalist who doesn’t argue that they should charge what their market can bear. You’ve taken a couple comments and decided I don’t like most hatters other than my chosen few: this is demonstrably untrue if you spend some time on this site. I currently have hats from approximately a dozen custom hat makers and I’m always looking for more. However, I expect value for my money and as I’m the one buying my hats I get to determine what represents good value. Others can make their own determinations, and while I’ll have an opinion, it’s their money spend on their hats so ultimately all that matters is if they believe it’s good value.

I hope you continue on your hat making journey and I wish you success.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

We differ. I bought hats from Mike at NW Hats before he opened his shop front. They were brilliantly made even then and at the $200 I paid for the 100% beaver a grand bargain. I was proud to wear it then and still very proud to wear it now. But then I drive a brand new Hyundai Tucson and I am pleased to be driving it as I poke down the freeway at 20mph!

In business for yourself, once you reach a certain comfort level the money you pay yourself will soon no longer be a motivator. To sustain growth for your company you have to come up with other motivators besides giving yourself yet another raise. People who work for others sometimes don’t have that drive to do their best for either their employer, their families or themselves. That’s why some people drive a Lamborghini & some a Fiat Panda. That’s why some people wear a Rolex & others wear a knockoff. The one wearing a knockoff is all about fashion.

Off topic & Im not a hat maker so I’ll drop out now.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

@belfastboy I wonder the price for Winchester for 100% beaver. It Tim (Fespa) is charging $189 for Beaver Blend and and $405 for 100% Beaver Western that just shows the demand. If Michael and Mike are charging that low, that means they are getting a great price on felt or they are losing money.

@deadlyhandsome It sounds like you have had some bad experiences with customs. I would be weary too if I got burned like that. That being said, if custom hatters have to pay $405 for 100% beaver from Tim, they are going to charge you twice as much as rabbit ($85 per capeline), at least. They have to or they are breaking even at best. Winchester buyers can afford to cut prices if they are really half the price as Tim (Fepsa). I have no idea what Winchester charges, I am just going off @belfastboy and he is probably right based on Mike and Michaels pricepoint of $400 for a hat.

I know many guys like Nathan's Custom, Tatton Baird, and The Hat Doctor are charging $1000 for custom 100% beaver hats. I would think they would have an "in" with Winchester as well considering their history. There are fedora guys in California charging even more but they have a brand and very specific clientele they have established (Hollywood, etc).

All that said, even if Winchester is charging, say, $200, for a 100% beaver capeline, that does not mean that Tim is ripping people off. If you want a very limited supply of something you are going to pay a higher price. Sounds like Winchester is doing good by their customers, though!

Tim isn’t ripping anyone off, and I don’t think anyone is saying that. It’s just a reality that his prices have gone way up over a short time. Maybe it’s all about his costs going up, but the reality is that for whatever reason the prices are far outpacing inflation.

I bought some of Art Fawcett’s Winchester 100% beaver hat bodies when he retired. Just a few years ago the price was around $100 for the beaver felt. Rabbit (staple) was $60ish.

My comments on the western rabbit vs beaver pricing wasn’t clear. I’m saying often the price goes up $600 when the materials difference was $50. Other hatters using the same components just keep a standard profit margin percentage and beaver hats are not that much more than rabbit. The reason I’ve never ordered a rabbit felt hat from Gannon is his beaver hats are/were just $75 more.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Tim isn’t ripping anyone off, and I don’t think anyone is saying that. It’s just a reality that his prices have gone way up over a short time. Maybe it’s all about his costs going up, but the reality is that for whatever reason the prices are far outpacing inflation.

I bought some of Art Fawcett’s Winchester 100% beaver hat bodies when he retired. Just a few years ago the price was around $100 for the beaver felt. Rabbit (staple) was $60ish.

My comments on the western rabbit vs beaver pricing wasn’t clear. I’m saying often the price goes up $600 when the materials difference was $50. Other hatters using the same components just keep a standard profit margin percentage and beaver hats are not that much more than rabbit. The reason I’ve never ordered a rabbit felt hat from Gannon is his beaver hats are/were just $75 more.

Thanks for clarifying! I apologize for taking a few comments to mean your whole stance on all things hatmaker. I don’t mean any harm. Thank you for being understanding and willing to explain further. God bless Gannon for his prices! What a top man!