LUFTWAFFE jackets - Eagles who Dare to Wear..!

[Edward]

thanks for the reply...what i understand from all the info out there is that the private purchases occurred primarily in france, french motorcycle jackets of the day...probably early in the war after the occupation of france is when many of these were purchased, especially given that the luftwaffe was a prime part of the german war success starting in '39...and that these jackets, a number of which are on ebay and other places, not only lasted until 2008, but likely lasted to the end of the war, obviating the need to replace them later in the war...

Naturally.... when I mention late war, though, I was thinking of the durability of the Luftwaffe men themselves, rather than the jackets(!).

unfortunately many of the luftwaffe jackets on the net are only shown from the front view, especially the ones seen in pictures of the luftwaffe officers...i have seen ones with 1-piece backs, one with a 2-piece back where the division was laterally along the shoulders (like many jackets today), and only one with vertical split, and this jacket had about 4 back panels going vertically as it was part of the design of the construction

My constant bugbear when it comes to any sort of historical look or film or stage costume I come to replicate is that it is a nightmare trying to get decent photos of the look from the back..... guess nobody back then thought we'd ever want to be duplicating these things seventy odd years on!

i know of eastman, which is pricey at about $1000...there is a very good replicator on ebay charging just under $400, great quality, from germany, but they have the one foible of not having a 1-piece back, they are 'noble-house-shop' and use proper snaps, etc., and they do not have the vertical seamed back, but do have the horizontal seamed 2-piece back along the shoulder...very nice jacket, but still apparently not historically correct:

I think this is a prime example of 'you get what you pay for'.... Unfortunately, historically accurate flying jackets are a premium product, at a premium price. BT has already commented on Noble House Shop above, and I naturally bow to his vastly superior knowledge on this. Suffice it for me to say here that I started a thread about their products a few months ago, and the general gist of the feedback was that the historical accuracy is questionable, and while they aren't especially bad jackets in and of themselves, in the long run it is better to wait and buy the likes of the Eastman (ELC = Eastman Leather Clothing).

If you have the luxury of time and are closer a WW2 than a 2008 build, shall we say , it might be worth looking out for an original on eBay? They tend to go for big money if listed as Luftwaffe, but if you buy a civilian jacket in that style from that period, it seems to me that it'll likely go a good deal cheaper, and still be convincingly in the Luftwaffe style.

 

[rumblefish]

Hi Johnny,
The Hartmann jacket I tried from Eastman, in construction, was superb. The hardware to me (I'm no expert though) seemed authentic. The leather was a bit softer than I was used to seeing for it's weight, making it a bit spongy to my touch. The fit on my frame however would keep me from buying one.

My A-1 below:

See how on this jacket the shoulders don't really droop, but slope downward because of my trapezius and shoulders? I'm 5'7", 170 lbs, 42 chest (this A-1 is a 44 chest) and a 31 waist. When I was in my teens and early twenties, I was 140 lbs, 38 chest and a 30 waist, the Hartmann probably would have looked much better on me then. Forgive the photo I chose, it's all I have of me at 21. Square straight shoulders:

Like this I would, in a Hartmann, look more like what the makers of these jackets had in mind.
I believe the German jackets look much better on someone with a slighter frame, like Eric's picture on ELC's website. I don't mind the fit of my A-1 like this, I think because I see a lot of AAF pilots looking the same in period photographs. And my A-2s have their epaulets to square off the shoulders giving a sharper appearance. Even my G&B MK 41 A-2, which has ridiculously wide shoulders, looks nice and squared off on top. Below:

The short of it; Very well made, but I prefer the American jackets because of the way they accommodate my build.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

LuFTWaFFeN fLying my way...

thanks to all of you for your input...and rumblefish, you have aged, i should say matured, mahhhhhhhhh-velously, looking great in those jackets...

as for the luftwaffe jacket, it is obvious you are all correct, eastman is great...so's a bentley or rolls, but i ain't gettin them either...

now, i hate to break hearts, but that ebay seller, whose stuff is shown a few posts above, is a great guy...he's accepting my return very graciously...yes, i bought his jacket, and my disappointment in it started my search for a more accurate historical german jacket, and resulted in the first post in this thread...

since someone else brought it up, i now feel compelled to review the jacket...keeping in mind the maker has been stellar in accepting the piece back, it was the vertically split 2-piece back that upset me when i got the jacket...the photos in the ads don't show the vertical seam unless you really examine it, and then it's still hard to discern...

other than that historical inaccuracy, the jacket looked nice on, fit well, and was really handsome, made at a quality level with, say, uswings milspec a-2...which, while not stellar, is probably accurate of the level of quality that a lot of luftwaffe jackets of the day were actually made

so, i'll admit, that except for the vertical split, i would have kept the piece...it did smell strongly of formaldehyde when it arrived, and never lost the smell, i take it as a result of a cheap dye or other process...the manufacturer blamed u.s. customs for spraying his jackets, but my guess is that it's the manufacturing process, though i have no way of knowing for sure...

anyway, i liked the jacket enough to have kept it, but checking in here has upped my standards (and lessened my pocket book), so thanks a bunch guys! and thus, i needed to find something more historically plausible, and eastman was as out as the $1000 an hour vegas showgirl that you could have after the show if you have the cash...as much as i'd like to, i just couldn't (no offense comparing an eastman to that, quite the opposite, a real compliment)

so i began posting here, and then hours of research on ebay and the net to see the real deals from ww2 and how they were constructed...what i found definitely led me to noble house (secret.society on ebay)...the jackets looked superb, and the quality with close up photos, also looked superb...their a-2 and g-1 renditions are beautiful but clearly have some historical inaccuracies notable by anyone who's learned anything on this forum...however, i figured their knowledge of german coat construction should be better since they are located in germany, using the same snaps and zips the originals did...the u.s. mil jackets of theirs were clearly of high quality that cannot be manufactured in photos, but they did have snaps vs. hook closure collars, and 2-piece backs...anathema...

the fronts and sides of their luftwaffe matched everything i could find of the real deal jackets...and researching the real deals led me to see that these had numerous variations among themselves since the items were private purchases...so the only thing to make sure was the horizontal split 2-piece back of their black 'hartmann' style was indeed the construction i could find on at least one legit luftwaffe ww2 jacket...

what i found was at least one or two that did have such a split, but no luftwaffe that had a vertical split...however, the other variations, such as pocket placement, even bottom belt, were numerous...

so from my research i have no doubt a 'hartmann' style jacket with a horizontal split on the upper back was made, bought by and used by luftwaffe pilots...so paying the close to $400 for a really nice noble house, versus paying more than twice as much for a nice but not overwhelming increase in quality, and a one-piece back, was not going to happen...

all i wanted was something that had the general quality of the jackets luftwaffe pilots bought and used, and had the proper construction...this i have no doubt i got from noble house...the jackets' construction can be seen on ebay or on their website by all of you, the pix are very close up and can't be faked...but when i get the jacket i'll definitely verify it here...i never voted for him, but reagan did say 'trust but verify'...so i'll let you all know

i think i've written ad nauseum in this post, but again, thank all for their input, and hope i've given some useful info back

johnnyjohnny

 

[johnnyjohnny]

aD nauseuM aD nauseuMMMMMMMMM

being an old newspaper reporter, i can never get enough inches for what i have to say...so here we go again...

however, this is very useful...below i have pix of one of the actual luftwaffe jackets from ww2...not precisely a hartmann, but close enough and a jacket i've definitely seen in ww2 luftwaffe pilot pictures...a pic of the front, and then the back shot shows the type of horizontal split 2-piece back (split at the shoulders) construction that noble-house uses in many of their luftwaffe jacket offerings...so i do consider them legit replicators, using both the actual zips/snaps the originals did, and being constructed and designed in germany, though at least some of the original luftwaffen jacks seem to have come from occupied paris:

http://www.franz-fruth.at/IMG_3448c.jpg

http://www.franz-fruth.at/IMG_3452c.jpg

and now this surprising turn...an ebay seller and internet website that offers remarkable luftwaffe hartmann replicants at high quality construction for $175 (or less if you bid properly)...i've been smacked by a bartender for putting links to live ebay ads, so i'll just list the photo url's, which are not ebay url's...

the story on this manufacturer was that, yes, aside from a few items, the jacket on the outside is nearly an exact replica with high quality leather and construction of a hartmann...however minor the differences were, i decided to spend a bit more to go with noble house...the diffs were:
1. jacket made in pakistan (why not get a german one instead, i thought)
2. this looked just like a hartmann, remarkable research went into it, however, it is foremost a current day motorcycle jacket and has zippered arm vents added under the upper arm on each side, has a detachable modern day fabric insulate interior, and spaces for motorcycle armour...plus, two of the buttons (neck and bottom belt) were slightly different than used on the originals...i still might have got it but i did want a black, and these came only in brown...i was really impressed, and so might you be in comparing their pix:

http://leatherparadise.com/images/941-1.jpg
http://leatherparadise.com/images/941-3.jpg

and, now, you all get a "30" as this former reporter is done with this story, for tonight anyway

johnnyjohnny

p.s. ("–30–" is a journalistic term that has been used to signify "the end" or "over and out" since the Civil War when telegraphers tapped "XXX", the Roman numeral signifying 30, to end transmissions---wikipedia)

 

[rjbaal]

My ELC Luftwaffe

This is my ELC Custom Luftwaffe. Due to the larger collar, I think is design is closer to german made jackets. This jacket also has original Luftwaffe uniform buttons on the lower pockets

 

[rjbaal]

This jacket has a one piece back.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

YaVoLT!

definitely as authentic and incredible as one would expect from everything i've heard about eLc...some of the authentic jackets, as the one i posted above, not only have laterally split 2-piece back, but a smaller collar...while i love the authenticity of the eLc jacket, i do prefer a smaller collar, which i suppose for $1000 i could request as a custom sizing option...

thanks for sharing, really great...will share my noble house review when it arrives...

p.s. must add that the eLc jacket is clearly sooo authentic, but the interesting fact is the variation in the real authentic jackets...again, private purchase jackets as the luftwaffens were, mostly had the same features, but the cut, the back (as stated), the length, buckles, and the collars, were all variable within a range...this remarkable eLc jacket is superbly authentic to a specific jacket that has become emblematic for the entire range of luftwaffe jackets...but unlike the a-2s and g-1s of the u.s., there was variety within the species...as nice as this iconic version of the luftwaffe jacket is, i personally prefer the cut and look of the old one i posted in the photo links above...despite it's beaten up look, had it been my size i likely would have bid on it on ebay

johnnyjohnny

 

[Dixon Cannon]

the interesting fact is the variation in the real authentic jackets...again, private purchase jackets as the luftwaffens were, mostly had the same features, but the cut, the back (as stated), the length, buckles, and the collars, were all variable within a range...this remarkable eLc jacket is superbly authentic to a specific jacket that has become emblematic for the entire range of luftwaffe jackets...but unlike the a-2s and g-1s of the u.s., there was variety within the species...
johnnyjohnny

jj, This is so true! Although there is a style that appears to have been favored by der piloten during WWII, there was no one style worn by all. Again private purchase, custom mades - there's quite a variety evident in surviving photos.

Here is my version of the same - "not authentic" but fits the bill quite nicely - until I encounter a "stitch-counter" who believes there was only ONE type of Luftwaffe Leder Jacke!

-Oberst Dichtzen von Cannon

 

[Smithy]

I've always thought that the Luftwaffe white leather flying jacket is an often overlooked item by the companies making repros. The originals are fairly rare now and command very high prices from what I have seen.

It's a good looking jacket and to my eyes very stylish. It's a real shame no one (to my knowledge) is making a copy.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

WhiTe doesn't make Right...

guess even if they wore white jackets, the luftwaffe was still the bad guy air force ...maybe that's why those motorcycle jacket-style luftwaffe jackets are the ones that became so iconic...very bad boy looking, close to what brando and the gang were wearing in 'the wild one' (1953) as they break up a high desert little town...i have seen a white luftwaffe jacket in pix, and quite a piece...really beautiful, as you say...

here are some more pix of luftwaffe jackets that don't fit the stereotype...i love this one, does have the 1-piece back, but not so big a collar, and ring pulls for tightening the jacket around the sides...probably one of my favorites:
http://rzm.lima-city.de/1.jpg
http://rzm.lima-city.de/3.jpg

added this as i just found it...that white jacket of yours is being reproduced by noble house, or x-jeans.de, same place i purchased my black luftwaffe jacket that i'm waiting on...here's a pic of the white luftwaffe jacket and it's page on the website:

http://www.x-jeans.de/cgi/images/stuckaxhomegr1.jpg
http://www.x-jeans.de/7/seiten/sweatshop.htm

 

[Smithy]

Thanks for the link to the white LW jacket, I didn't know that there was a repro being made.

That said, there were a couple of things which didn't look quite right about it. Most originals are white leather with black fleece, but maybe that's an option when ordering. But the front panel pattern also looks to be different from originals, lacking the diagonal seams.

I'll scan a picture of an original and post it here.

 

[Edward]

If the quality of those NH "Snowbear" jackets is there, they'd make a very tempting alternative to a modern styl ski jacket...

Regarding the seller whose photos Johnny Johnny has posted above...

I dealt with Leather Paradise on eBay a few years ago. The Brando-style jackey I bought from them in 2002 arrived, shipped, for in the region of USD150. Cracking quality - I'm sure the Aero equivalent may well be a better jacket, but for a steerhide jacket in this style, I'm not sure that I could honestly convince myself that it would be worth paying about six times the price for any up in quality.... I later bought a pair of leather bike trousers for my dad for Christmas. There was a problem with the shipping (we eventually traced it to a lazy delivery guy at this end not leaving me a card, so they were shipped back to the US by Parcelforce - at the cheapest possible rate, i.e. the slowest) and it took some time to find them and get them posted over the Atlantic to me again, but throughout this process LP were great - they really knocked themselves out to get to the bottom of it and get them to me. I would certainly be happy to deal with them again.

 

[Smithy]

Here you go Johnny, an original...

 

[johnnyjohnny]

fLieger paradise, etc...

a few notes for smithy and edward...first for smithy...the speed noble house (aka x-jeans.de) comes up with these jackets is as dizzying as a Junkers Ju 87D Stuka dive-bomber in straight descent...noble house had this thing up on their site today...looks very much like the one you so nicely posted...you may just have to buy it:
http://www.x-jeans.de/cgi/images/kanalhomegr2a.jpg

as for edward's comments on leather paradise, i'll have to second that...i live about an hour from them, depending on whether it's rush hour or not (not, about 25 min) here in LaLaLand...i was so stoked (yeah, i'm a surfer) on their luftwaffe jacket and it's amazing replication, i wanted to drive over to their factory and buy one rather than go through ebay, which was ok with them...the fellow answered a bunch of questions about the jacket, and at $175 it certainly looked and sounded at least in the ballpark of a jacket costing multiple times it's price...however, as the fellow in paradise made no bones about, the styling was nearly perfect from the originals, except for the two buttons (top and bottom of zipper), and it had zipper vents on the under upper arm for cooling...he stated that despite the near perfect replication, it was meant as a modern motorcycle jacket, with spaces for armour, removable insulate lining, etc...that was the only reason i didn't get it as i wanted an exact replica in and out...but these folks seem incredibly nice...

on this forum, maybe not this thread, i had also heard about lewis leathers and their motorcycle jackets...oddly enough, when i went to their website there were two jackets that were 98percent spittin images of the iconic hartmann jacket...one, i believe called the corsair, was actually purchased by the makers of the movie 'battle of britain' and supplied to the actors playing luftwaffe pilots...that one had the side 45degree pockets, two, but not the top lateral zippered pockets...so, slightly different than the classic hartmann...however (the fun doesn't stop), the dominator has both sets of pockets, and except for the lewis leathers logo on the left breast, and the lack of a leather collar strap with snap (and it also has a snap rather than a buckle on the leather belt strap at the bottom of the zipper) it was the spittin image of the hartmann...very tempted to buy, untempted when i tracked down a distributor and found they were about a grand...oh, and it did have a 1piece back

so back to the noble house (xe-jeans.de) hartmann style i got...only thing about that jacket, which i've ordered, is that it does have that 2piece back divided laterally...however, i do continue to see some luftwaffe ww2 jackets with that design, and today i saw one that was almost exactly a hartmann, and it did have the lateral split at the top...here are two pix of it:

http://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/f2/23/e0a9_3.JPG
http://i12.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/f2/23/dd96_3.JPG

so not feeling too bad about saving $600 and having a lateral split on the back...

like to hear about that white jacket, and if noble house's matches smithy's...though it does seem to...

Auf Wiedersehen
johnnyjohnny

 

[johnnyjohnny]

aNother Luftwaffe Original jacket>>>

i'll keep posting pictures i find on the net of original luftwaffe jackets as they are not easy to find, and it might be of interest the variety of them there were, and the construction of the legit and original ones...the few that are now made by replicators are the icons, but it's interesting to see so many varieties out there...this one has the original (and it is pretty clear it's the original) luftwaffe tag put in the jacket that these apparently had when they were commissioned or bought by luftwaffe pilots:

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/099835000/99835029/pix2991635343.jpg
http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/099835000/99835029/pix2991635406.jpg
http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/099835000/99835029/pix2991635750.jpg

the interesting thing about seeing what the multivarious actual luftwaffe jackets were above and beyond the hartmann, gives interested parties an opportunity to find some of these jackets out there on ebay or other sites where, without the research, one might not have known this particular jacket was actually used by luftwaffe pilots...

it is ironic that the regimented 3rd reich would have had non-standard issue pilot jackets that were chosen by the individual pilots, where the laissez faire, independent spirited yanks would have the standardized a-2s and g-1s which, while they had slight variations from manufacturer to manufacturer, the components (waistbands, pockets, collar hooks, ribbing, etc) had to follow standards that could only vary slightly in style of manufacture, but not in basic structure like the comparitively free ranging luftwaffe jackets...tho the yanks sure knew how to be multivarious in their expression on the backs of their jackets...if having mostly pictures of hot chix is much variety (as wonderful as it is)

johnnyjohnny

 

[johnnyjohnny]

final noTe is souR

the denouement of the luftwaffe jacket question is that the noble house (on ebay), x-jeans.de on the net, luftwaffe jacket arrived, and was at best mediocre in quality and build...certainly, in my opinion, not worth the close to $400 it cost...

from my experience so far, i'd go for eastmen, or the coat at http://www.original-fliegerjacken.de/de/fliegerjacken_messerschmitt.php

or do what i did, just get an aero highwayman and gear the style options toward the famous ww2 luftwaffe jacket...aside from the lack of buckles at the top and bottom of the front zipper, and no button cuff layered on top of aero's zipper cuff (as did the famous ww2 hartmann luftwaffe jacket, adding a button closure over a zipered cuff), the proper configured aero highwayman is a dead ringer for the famous 'hartmann' ww2 luftwaffe jacket...and at about $800 shipping included, it's quite a deal

...end of story

johnnyjohnny

 

[Graemsay]

I think that the jackets sold by Original Fliegerjacken are mostly Aeros and Eastmans.

If you compare the Messerschmidt jacket (linked to above), with:

http://www.eastmanleather.com/WWIILuft.htm

It's apparent that the details are identical. (The same label, zips, etc.) Only Eastman are selling their's for a lot less.

 

[John Lever]

DM Luftwaffe Jacket

I like this sheepskin. The question is how authentic is it and is it worth £500 ?
http://www.doursoux.com/product_inf...language=en&osCsid=ouig3lf18ribl86v0c2gj7gk72

 

[tonypaj]

I like this sheepskin. The question is how authentic is it and is it worth £500 ?
http://www.doursoux.com/product_inf...language=en&osCsid=ouig3lf18ribl86v0c2gj7gk72

No clue about authenticity of that one. However, as a general comment, I've been to Doursoux (right close by the Montparnasse station) a couple of times, and will probably go there in a few weeks time when I go to Paris again.

The shop is your regular military surplus mishmash kind of thing. Their "own" products, like the ones they advertise under the WWII section, are just copies, cuts a bit here and there, quality at times good at times not so good. I've bought a pair of khakis there, heavy, heavy canvas, a bit weird cut, came out of first wash totally uneven. I like them, though...

They have also the real deals, used old stuff, but prices high... Overall, I wouldn't deal with them if authenticity is required at the level of Goodwear or like (take for example the cotton A-2 they have, which seems to be a pure product of imagination, but which btw I also bought, and like). The stuff is at times WWII styled, but that's about it...

 

[Paden]

http://www.original-fliegerjacken.de/de/news.php

New german WWII winter sheepskin