Vintage Schott-Beck Motorcycle Jackets

[Marc mndt]

I wonder what people thought of having to pay 30% more than Buco for one and having vinyl parts.

Today we think of pleather as cheaping out. Back then it was sold as the hard wearing alternative to leather.

 

[unhatted]

Today we think of pleather as cheaping out. Back then it was sold as the hard wearing alternative to leather.

Ah that figures. It does appear to be heavy wear areas rather than hidden ones—I was confused as to why they used leather on e.g. the underside of the epaulettes but vinyl on the inner pocket. And in fairness to the marketing the vinyl parts of mine do look factory fresh, though I’ve seen those parts cracking elsewhere.

Funny how things change, I’ve read accounts of people gleefully chucking their old tube amplifiers away when solid state was invented…

It’s funny because even the old horsehide Perfectos had vinyl on the inside hem.

I’m fairly sure my inner hem is leather. Does this mean the hem vinyl was replaced by leather before the other bits? And given the above, I wonder if people grumbled about cost-cutting(!)

 

[Marc mndt]

And in fairness to the marketing the vinyl parts of mine do look factory fresh, though I’ve seen those parts cracking elsewhere.

Here's another Schott with pleather parts. The inside hem looks to be in good condition, one of the sleeve gussets not so much.

 

[jeo]

Today we think of pleather as cheaping out. Back then it was sold as the hard wearing alternative to leather.

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Hilarious they say it won’t crack!

I wonder what ads from the 50’s looked like and what the cost was.

When nylon came out in the very early 50’s it was also heavily marketed across the board by all brands as a hard wearing alternative.

I can’t imagine anyone in the 50’s thinking that anything is a good alternative to horsehide.

Here’s a page from the 1967 Schott catalog (Edit: maybe end of ribbon label era or beginning of cactus label era)

The “Bolta-Flex” bottom facing is mentioned as a selling feature for added strength.

 

[Marc mndt]

Schott wasn't the only manufacturer using pleather parts...

Buco j24L

All leather except for one sleeve gusset.

'50s Sierra. The right side lapel and epaulet are made out of pleather. Note the back side of the epaulet which is smooth instead of fuzzy. Meanwhile the part that needs to be hard wearing, the inside hem, is made out of leather. Totally random.

 

[Marc mndt]

Schott wasn't the only manufacturer using pleather parts...

After a long discussion with @jeo and closer inspection in daylight I have come to the conclusion that it was false alarm on the Sierra having pleather parts. On closeup you can clearly see the natural fibers. It probably feels and looks like plastic because it's heavily corrected leather with a very thick and hard topcoat.

I'm still undecided on the Buco's gusset though. It has a spot where the topcoat is peeling off and on closeup you can see weird orange fibers sticking trough. Someting I don't see anywhere else on the jacket. Those fibers might be from the canvas that was used as a base for the pleather?

 

[jeo]

After a long discussion with @jeo and closer inspection in daylight I have come to the conclusion that it was false alarm on the Sierra having pleather parts. On closeup you can clearly see the natural fibers. It probably feels and looks like plastic because it's heavily corrected leather with a very thick and hard topcoat.

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I'm still undecided on the Buco's gusset though. It has a spot where the topcoat is peeling off and on closeup you can see weird orange fibers sticking trough. Someting I don't see anywhere else on the jacket. Those fibers might be from the canvas that was used as a base for the pleather?

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I knew it!! I’m pretty sure the Buco is leather too.

 

[jeo]

Schott half belt with super rare Perfecto label from the 30’s

 

[AHP91]

 

[Monitor]

After a long discussion with @jeo and closer inspection in daylight I have come to the conclusion that it was false alarm on the Sierra having pleather parts. On closeup you can clearly see the natural fibers. It probably feels and looks like plastic because it's heavily corrected leather with a very thick and hard topcoat.

View attachment 599622

I'm still undecided on the Buco's gusset though. It has a spot where the topcoat is peeling off and on closeup you can see weird orange fibers sticking trough. Someting I don't see anywhere else on the jacket. Those fibers might be from the canvas that was used as a base for the pleather?

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You've no worries, that's all leather 100% on both jackets.

 

[unhatted]

Not terribly vintage, but just took delivery of a fantastic 125 with the hang tag still in the pocket and wondering if anyone (@jeo !) might be able to help narrow down the date beyond ‘85-93.

The clues:
Branded snaps
Branded lining
YKK main zipper
Ideal sleeve zippers
Blacked out football vent eyelets
No barcode on ticket pocket label
Missing liner so no main label

This hang tag:

 

[jeo]

Don’t think you can narrow it down further from ‘85-‘92.

To me it looks late 80’s. Starting in the early 90’s the cuts tended to be a bit fuller.

Schott NYC Leather Jackets and Motorcycle Apparel

www.schottnyc.com

Nice jacket! How does it fit? (Edit: saw it in the other thread. Great fit!)

 

[unhatted]

Yeah really delighted with it. Not sure my other Schotts will get much of a look in now (except possibly my very heavy 94 618).

While I’m here, can anyone shed any light on this particular riddle? Jacket seen on eBay but it’s the label, specifically the region of manufacture, that I’m curious about… Does this mean other companies made jackets for Beck at the end?

 

[unhatted]

on closeup you can see weird orange fibers sticking trough. Someting I don't see anywhere else on the jacket. Those fibers might be from the canvas that was used as a base for the pleather?

Late to the weird orange fibres party but could these in fact be the hairs of the hapless cow/horse that became this jacket? Someone more knowledgeable about leather can weigh in on whether the hair follicles are included in the layers used to make leather but given that we can see the pores in the skin I think this is plausible? These images remind me of nothing so much as when I’ve occasionally got fancy small-farm meat with the bristles still on one side…

 

[jeo]

Noticed this was missing so I’m adding the Beck 444 to this thread.

This is a Beck catalog page from 1949, the last year this jacket was produced. Main difference with the Beck 333 is addition of the hand warmer pocket on the right side. The 444 also has side laces. The fit is identical to the 333.

Here are a couple of my Beck 444s

And here are a few fit pics.

 

[Aloysius]

This might be my fave 1940s motorcycle jacket.

 

[Bahabp100]

Here’s a goatskin version.

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I recently saw this goatskin version with a 30’s zipper. Probably one of the first ever made in 1940 and they used a 30s zipper OR there’s the first inconsistency.

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Is this what the Schott 1928 model is based on ?

 

[jeo]

Is this what the Schott 1928 model is based on ?

Yup

 

[newtojackets]

I couldn't find a specific thread on this topic, though I saw several adjacent. I figured it was appropriate to have one because this is definitely one of the pieces to this history.

It's well known that Beck had jackets made by Schott, some of which were available under a different model name at each of their respective catalogues.

One of my own is the checkered-flag Beck label 999, which I recently discussed with @jeo in another thread. This exact jacket, which I thought was a 60s jacket but he placed it at the late 50s due to the construction:

Here is jeo's, which he estimates to be early 60s:

I had assumed that the additional workmanship such as the French seams was something Beck had specially requested for their own-labeled jackets. Indeed the presence of French seams led some people to suggest they couldn't have been made by Schott.

Recently I saw this on eBay! Nothing inherently wild about it but it gives us another piece.

Seems to be a sibling of my jacket, except with the Schott ribbon label. I've seen plenty of jackets with that label, but the motorcycle jackets have usually been 618s, like this one that @AHP91 sold last year.

This one though is pretty much exactly my Beck 999, including the French seams.
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So it seems that the construction differences weren't based on private label vs house label, but just came down to which model it was. The detachable belt models and at least one of the cafe racer models got the French seamed construction, while the attached belt model and some of the cafe racers did not.

I'm not sure what the reason for this is, but it's interesting.

I'd be really curious to hear what others have found about these jackets, not just stitching wise. I think for instance the Schott label confirms that this generation of Beck jacket is also steerhide. (John Chapman upon examining reckoned it's most likely steerhide but a visual inspection is inconclusive; I think this label answers the question, so I'll let him know; I actually saved these pictures meaning to send them to him.)

I know @Marc mndt owned one of the Beck cafe racers at one point; I think it had French seams, but I'm not sure. I know that when Schott recently did a repro of their own-brand contemporary of that jacket, it had the French seamed panels as well.

were these made of horsehide? Your beck (the first one) has leather that looks significantly better than most schots I've seen

Edit: Nevermind, read the thread. That leather really does look incredible though- has that waxy shine that I love

 

[Bahabp100]

Not terribly vintage, but just took delivery of a fantastic 125 with the hang tag still in the pocket and wondering if anyone (@jeo !) might be able to help narrow down the date beyond ‘85-93.

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The clues:
Branded snaps
Branded lining
YKK main zipper
Ideal sleeve zippers
Blacked out football vent eyelets
No barcode on ticket pocket label
Missing liner so no main label

This hang tag:

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I believe the logo lining was only used around early 90s . But I don’t see a picture of it