Levels of fedora formality?

[NukeMeSlowly]

My recent review of the Stylemaster, along with considering what specific attire I could/would wear with it, got me thinking about this issue.

I am familiar with the requirement to wear a homburg or top hat with formal wear but I am a bit confused about the degrees of formality within the fedora style.

For example, is a raw edge brim more or less formal than an underwelt brim or brim with stitching?

I am guessing a very narrow (less than 2") or a very broad brim (3" or more) would mark a hat as less formal than a moderate brim?

Is a ribbon edged brim more or less formal than a plain brim?

I wonder if someone could provide a visual continuum of formality? Something like:

LESS -- Fedora<Homburg<Top Hat -- MORE

but specifically for fedoras?

 

[avedwards]

Colour is a major factor. A brown fedora is a lot more casual than a grey or black one.

Ribbon width is another. A thin ribbon is casual but a 2" ribbon is quite smart, with anything between 1-2" being .

I personally think that more visible stitching on the brim makes a hat less formal, so a welt is less formal. However, one of Art Fawcett's welts has the stitching done so it's hardly visible, thus elevating the formality. Bound edges are quite dressy IMO. Raw edges are plain so they can be both formal and casual, depending on one's attire.

The crease also matters. A rough looking diamond crease is more casual (though it can still be worn with a smart suit as proven by Bogart) than a centre dent without pinches (like a homburg).

 

[Not-Bogart13]

I do believe that avedwards has it quite aptly covered. Even if he isn't 100% right by oldern-day rules, following his guidelines should avoid any real faux pas.

The thing of it is, since the decline of hat wearing as a wide spread thing, personal POV (both of the hat wearer and those who see him) play a greater role than any rules or guidelines of formality. So, while we might distinguish a bound brim all-black fedora as very formal and a tan thin ribbon welt edge hat as casual, your Uncle Bart and local bartender might not see a difference as far as formality goes. [huh]

 

[NukeMeSlowly]

I do believe that avedwards has it quite aptly covered. Even if he isn't 100% right by oldern-day rules, following his guidelines should avoid any real faux pas.

The thing of it is, since the decline of hat wearing as a wide spread thing, personal POV (both of the hat wearer and those who see him) play a greater role than any rules or guidelines of formality. So, while we might distinguish a bound brim all-black fedora as very formal and a tan thin ribbon welt edge hat as casual, your Uncle Bart and local bartender might not see a difference as far as formality goes. [huh]

I hear you, but I am more concerned about how I feel wearing it than what others necessarily think.

I am particularly interested in this question because it would help me in my upcoming navy fedora purchase (which will likely be an internet buy). I want something that will work with suits and similar level of attire. If, for example, I purchase something with a ribbon edged brim online, I don't want to pair it with a dark suit, look in the mirror, and find that it strikes a discordant note.

I know that there is a degree of subjectivity to this but I would appreciate knowing the "rules" before I decide to bend or break them.

 

[dhermann1]

Are you saying you're going to but a navy colored fedora? If it's to go with a navy suit, you might find the preponderance of opinion here is that a navy suit looks best with a gray hat. A navy blue hat is pretty hard to match to any color suit.

 

[NukeMeSlowly]

Are you saying you're going to but a navy colored fedora? If it's to go with a navy suit, you might find the preponderance of opinion here is that a navy suit looks best with a gray hat. A navy blue hat is pretty hard to match to any color suit.

I have fedoras in gray and fawn (Borsalino and Akubra, respectively) already.
Per my other current thread, my existing blue hat has nearly disappeared (and was not that great to begin with).
Being blue eyed and uber-white skinned, I wear a lot of blue, so the blue suit/blue hat combo is fine for me but I also intend to wear it with my grey suits and grey overcoats to add a pop of color to my ensemble (especially my face ).

 

[feltfan]

Colour is a major factor. A brown fedora is a lot more casual than a grey or black one.

Ribbon width is another. A thin ribbon is casual but a 2" ribbon is quite smart, with anything between 1-2" being .

I think these sorts of hard and fast rules are not useful and do not hold.

There's nothing I have ever seen in old photos (aside from B&W ones)
and text or modern guides to suggest that brown hats are in any way
more or less formal than black or gray. Some of my finest hats-
Cavanagh and Borsalino for example- are brown. It's the style and
quality of the hat, not the color (unless we're talking about extreme colors).

As for thin ribbons, why do you suppose the Stetson 100 invariably has
a thin ribbon? That is not a casual hat. Again, it's not just the rule, but
the context here.

 

[kaosharper1]

If you're wearing this with a suit:

1) I'd stick with wide ribbons rather than thin ones, unless you dress like LBJ.
2) Bound brims are more "formal" than raw edges, but only in the eyes of some. For instance, I think a welted brim looks formal, particularly if it looks like a Cavanaugh edge. Ribbon bound edges also look more formal.
3) Matching ribbon and brim binding with hat color tends to look more formal for dark colors, but a light grey hat with a dark ribbon also looks formal. A brim binding matching the hat rather than the hat band will also look more conservative for a lighter color.
4) It's my opinion that the brim width should match the type of suit you're wearing and your face. A medium width lapel generally would call for a brim of 2 3/8" to 2 3/4" depending on your face and preference. I wouldn't wear a stingy brim with a medium width lapel. On the other hand if you wear a suit with narrower lapels now in fashion, I'd go with 2" to 2 3/8" depending on your face.
5) Grey hats are more versatile with blue suits unless all your blue suits are the same shade of blue.

That's just my two cents. We can actually wear whatever we want. It also depends upon your climate. I used to live in the Northeast and favored darker colors, but since moving to Southern California, I've moved to lighter colors despite my darker complexion. My hats, accordingly are now predominately light colored ones. I use the dark ones for the rare rainy days (like today) or when I'm going to a colder climate in the winter, like back to Boston.

 

[elvisroe]

Not too close!!!

On the formality of brown v grey, it's pretty hard to tell from old photos as everyone appears to be wearing grey!

And on matching suits to hats - I think unless it's an obvious clash you can mix and match fairly broadly.

In fact unless your going for a 20s gangster look I'd avoid matching too closely. Matching the colours in your tie too closely with your suit can look very contrived and I think the same goes for hats.

A more subtle match in tone is better.

Costner's grey hat with navy suit was a good look in untouchables and Connery's grey cap with the brown doesn't look Incongruous.

 

[avedwards]

I think these sorts of hard and fast rules are not useful and do not hold.

There's nothing I have ever seen in old photos (aside from B&W ones)
and text or modern guides to suggest that brown hats are in any way
more or less formal than black or gray. Some of my finest hats-
Cavanagh and Borsalino for example- are brown. It's the style and
quality of the hat, not the color (unless we're talking about extreme colors).

As for thin ribbons, why do you suppose the Stetson 100 invariably has
a thin ribbon? That is not a casual hat. Again, it's not just the rule, but
the context here.

I called brown hats less formal because in my eyes brown is a less formal colour than grey or black. Look at formalwear - black top hats and homburgs are worn. With morning dress the only other acceptable hat colour is grey. I'm not saying brown cannot be worn with a suit, but IMO it is not as formal as grey or black. Proof of this is that the most formal suit colour is charcoal grey and this cannot be worn with brown but can with grey or black.

As for the Stetson 100 and thin ribbons, I think we may have to disagree due to cultural differences as thin ribbons never really had a big place in the UK. I just personally think that wider ribbons resemble formal hats like a homburg more than thin ribbons do, hence they are more formal in my opinion.

 

[Torpedo]

In my opinion, midnight blue hats (that is, very dark/blue-black colours) are better for combining with suits than navy blue hats. I have two of the former, one vintage, one new, and I think they do fine with mid grey, blue grey, and navy to medium blue suits. Note I say combining, not matching. Trying to actually match felt to suit colour is not something I would generally recommend.

Navy blue hats, being lighter, on the other hand, may be harder to combine, specially if they are one of those more gaudy shades; they may well look more casual, too.

 

[billysmom]

Midnight blue is so elegant. My husband's favorite tuxedo is midnight blue and it's always a stand-out! My midnight blue Homburg complements almost any blue or gray ensemble.

SMS

 

[feltfan]

I called brown hats less formal because in my eyes brown is a less formal colour than grey or black. Look at formalwear - black top hats and homburgs are worn. With morning dress the only other acceptable hat colour is grey. I'm not saying brown cannot be worn with a suit, but IMO it is not as formal as grey or black. Proof of this is that the most formal suit colour is charcoal grey and this cannot be worn with brown but can with grey or black.

I get your point. But brown can be quite sharp and, depending on
one's hair color/eye color/complexion, might be a better choice in all
but the most formal settings. I was reacting to, "...a lot more casual..."-
one can look very presentable for all sorts of occasions in a brown hat.

 

[gtdean48]

Thin ribbons even on a Stetson 100 are considered Country hats as opposed to the more formal City hats. A wider ribbon hat would be a dress hat where a thin ribbon would be more of a work hat....

 

[Mulceber]

I get your point. But brown can be quite sharp and, depending on
one's hair color/eye color/complexion, might be a better choice in all
but the most formal settings. I was reacting to, "...a lot more casual..."-
one can look very presentable for all sorts of occasions in a brown hat.

Let's face it, almost anything that we discuss wearing on this site would be considered formal by modern standards. By golden era standards, brown would probably be considered more casual than gray or black. That's not to say you can't look very presentable in brown, just that if you were going to a formal event, the colors to wear would be gray, black or maybe midnight blue. -M

 

[M6Classic]

Thin ribbons even on a Stetson 100 are considered Country hats as opposed to the more formal City hats. A wider ribbon hat would be a dress hat where a thin ribbon would be more of a work hat....

On the proverbial other hand, consider a cowboy hat with an 1.5" ribbon. :eusa_doh:

Buzz

 

[NukeMeSlowly]

I appreciate everyone weighing in.

Is there a consensus that a highly contrasting hat ribbon/brim ribbon makes for a more sporty, less formal hat?

 

[AlterEgo]

I have little to add here that has not already been said, as the comments so far all have merit.

On the cultural norms issue, brim and hatband width is variable, albeit an imprecise one, depending on which culture relative to another. Compared to the UK and even the US, Australia is a relatively casual culture, so only the snootiest Aussie would regard a thin band or 3-inch brim as too casual for a suit and tie.

In fact, the increasing popularity of Australian outback styles with skinny bands has probably shifted Americans' standards to a narrower band and wider brim as being entirely acceptable for all but the most dressy, dark suits.

Yet, the wider, 1- to 2-inch band and slimmer, 2- to 2 1/2-inch brim are still safer bets for most suit-wearing men in the US. However, when the band gets much wider than two inches, or the brim much less than two, it goes back to more casual, in accordance with the Rule of Extremes.

Who makes the rules? Them. They make the rules. The real question is, how can I become one of them?

 

[GallatinHatMan]

Consensus? It doesn't sound like it. I love my medium gray Stetson St. Regis Homburg and it has a black ribbon and brim. I consider it very dressy, but, of course, that's just me.

 

[avedwards]

I appreciate everyone weighing in.

Is there a consensus that a highly contrasting hat ribbon/brim ribbon makes for a more sporty, less formal hat?

IMO yes, contrasting hats/ribbons are more casual; with the exception of light grey with a black ribbon which is quite formal (as demonstrated by the grey top hats worn to Royal Ascot).

As for the ribbon width argument, I'd say a thin ribbon can be worn with a suit in the US but it is still not as formal as a wider ribbon.