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I just read a thread in the classified section wherein several members denounced the practice of offering to purchase a jacket for less than the listed price. Frankly, I was surprised by the disapproval. I have sold several jackets here on TFL and, in every instance, I received offers for less than the listed price, including from well-respected members, and I sold each of the jackets for less than the listed price. Likewise, in the one instance where I purchased a jacket from the TFL classifieds, I offered less than the asking price, a negotiation ensued, and I paid less than the asking price – materially less. IMHO, such negotiations are inherent in the process of buying and selling used jackets, among other things, and certainly not inappropriate or offensive. In fact, many sellers intentionally list their jackets, and other products, at a price exceeding what they hope to net precisely because they anticipate a negotiation and want to leave room to discount the price as part of the expected negotiation.
There is nothing wrong with buyers attempting to negotiate a good deal on a jacket, or even a below market deal. Depending on a multitude of factors and circumstances, many sellers are willing to accept below-market prices in order to complete a sale. There is nothing wrong with a buyer seeking such a deal. The seller remains free to decline.
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with a seller seeking to make money through the sale of a jacket and/or seeking to maximize his/her return by starting at a high asking price. Many here, including well-respected members, have acknowledged selling jackets for more than they paid for them and thereby making money through the buying and selling of jackets. Perfectly appropriate.
Some espouse the belief that, if the original asking price is “fair” or a “good deal,” potential buyers should not offer less and/or negotiate. However, the determination of what is a “fair” price or a “good deal” is entirely subjective, and one person’s “fair” price is another person’s rip-off. Therefore, I disagree with the notion that, if a jacket is priced “fairly,” counteroffers are inappropriate.
IMHO, if a seller does not want to receive offers for less than the asking price, he or she should expressly state as such in the listing (and buyers should abide).
Many here condemn the practice of “low-ball” offers. What exactly is a “low-ball” offer? What qualifies as a “low-ball”? Is it defined by a percentage of the asking price? What percentage below asking is a “low-ball”? What if the original asking price is particularly high and/or perceived as well above market – in that case, can one offer a larger percentage below asking without qualifying as a “low ball”? What if the original asking price is particularly low and/or perceived as well below market – in that case, do even small discounts qualify as a “low-ball”? Who makes these determinations?
The bottom line is that, in most instances, the determination of a “low-ball” offer is as subjective as the determination of a “fair” or “good price,” and all of these various subjective determinations are inextricably interrelated.
Some sellers bemoan the receipt of “low-ball” offers as exasperating and taxing? What is the big deal? It takes three seconds to scan and delete the message. If you are so inclined, you can spend an additional five seconds typing “no thank you” and hit send. Either way, it is far from an onerous or oppressive occurrence. I have received many offers that I personally considered way, way below the market price of my jacket. Five seconds later, my “no thank you” reply is sent and I move on. The exchange does not cause me the slightest bit of aggravation.
Recently, I was on the fence about a jacket offered for sale here. I was concerned that it would not fit. It was very expensive and I was unwilling to take the risk at the listed price. I offered 20% below the listed price (I didn’t intend to offer exactly 20% below, but that is what it ended up being). The seller politely declined. I did not follow-up and the jacket subsequently sold. Was my offer of 20% below asking a low-ball? I didn’t think so. Rather, the offer was what I was willing to pay under the circumstances, including my concern about the fit and my ability to resell the jacket if it didn’t fit. The seller stood firm and appropriately so as he subsequently sold it for more. Good for him.
I recently purchased a substantial piece of art. The seller’s broker told me that she would not communicate an offer to the seller that was less than 20% of the listed price because it would be “offensive” to the seller. I was unwilling to pay 80% of the asking price and, therefore, I said nothing for several weeks. Then, in defiance of the broker’s statement, I offered 33% of the asking price. Notwithstanding her prior statement, the broker communicated my offer to the seller without comment. I ended up buying the piece for 30% of the asking price. Was my 33% discount offer a “low-ball”? Clearly not given the ultimate sale price.
When I purchased my first new car (many moons ago), I went to the dealer to do some research, with no intention of purchasing the car during that visit. The salesman asked what it would take to make the deal. Not wanting to purchase the car at that time, I stated a ridiculously low price. The salesman recoiled in horror at my insanely low offer and expressed forthright confidence that the dealership would never sell the car for that price. Over the next two hours, the salesman, and then his manager, progressively lowered their asking price in approximately eight incremental decreases, each time expecting me to raise my offer. I never raised my offer once . . . because I did not intend to purchase the car at that time. After this two hour dance, the dealership sold me the car for my original, ridiculously low offer. What is the moral of the story? My ridiculously low offer probably wasn’t that low or ridiculous and I probably could have purchased the car for even less.
I agree with those who condemn pestering buyers who continue to pursue a discount even after the buyer declines or does not respond. If the seller counters and a negotiation follows, that’s great. However, if the seller declines or does not respond, the buyer should stand down. Further efforts at this point are inappropriate.
Now, having lit the fuse, I am going to put on my fire retardant jacket and run for cover.
There is nothing wrong with buyers attempting to negotiate a good deal on a jacket, or even a below market deal. Depending on a multitude of factors and circumstances, many sellers are willing to accept below-market prices in order to complete a sale. There is nothing wrong with a buyer seeking such a deal. The seller remains free to decline.
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with a seller seeking to make money through the sale of a jacket and/or seeking to maximize his/her return by starting at a high asking price. Many here, including well-respected members, have acknowledged selling jackets for more than they paid for them and thereby making money through the buying and selling of jackets. Perfectly appropriate.
Some espouse the belief that, if the original asking price is “fair” or a “good deal,” potential buyers should not offer less and/or negotiate. However, the determination of what is a “fair” price or a “good deal” is entirely subjective, and one person’s “fair” price is another person’s rip-off. Therefore, I disagree with the notion that, if a jacket is priced “fairly,” counteroffers are inappropriate.
IMHO, if a seller does not want to receive offers for less than the asking price, he or she should expressly state as such in the listing (and buyers should abide).
Many here condemn the practice of “low-ball” offers. What exactly is a “low-ball” offer? What qualifies as a “low-ball”? Is it defined by a percentage of the asking price? What percentage below asking is a “low-ball”? What if the original asking price is particularly high and/or perceived as well above market – in that case, can one offer a larger percentage below asking without qualifying as a “low ball”? What if the original asking price is particularly low and/or perceived as well below market – in that case, do even small discounts qualify as a “low-ball”? Who makes these determinations?
The bottom line is that, in most instances, the determination of a “low-ball” offer is as subjective as the determination of a “fair” or “good price,” and all of these various subjective determinations are inextricably interrelated.
Some sellers bemoan the receipt of “low-ball” offers as exasperating and taxing? What is the big deal? It takes three seconds to scan and delete the message. If you are so inclined, you can spend an additional five seconds typing “no thank you” and hit send. Either way, it is far from an onerous or oppressive occurrence. I have received many offers that I personally considered way, way below the market price of my jacket. Five seconds later, my “no thank you” reply is sent and I move on. The exchange does not cause me the slightest bit of aggravation.
Recently, I was on the fence about a jacket offered for sale here. I was concerned that it would not fit. It was very expensive and I was unwilling to take the risk at the listed price. I offered 20% below the listed price (I didn’t intend to offer exactly 20% below, but that is what it ended up being). The seller politely declined. I did not follow-up and the jacket subsequently sold. Was my offer of 20% below asking a low-ball? I didn’t think so. Rather, the offer was what I was willing to pay under the circumstances, including my concern about the fit and my ability to resell the jacket if it didn’t fit. The seller stood firm and appropriately so as he subsequently sold it for more. Good for him.
I recently purchased a substantial piece of art. The seller’s broker told me that she would not communicate an offer to the seller that was less than 20% of the listed price because it would be “offensive” to the seller. I was unwilling to pay 80% of the asking price and, therefore, I said nothing for several weeks. Then, in defiance of the broker’s statement, I offered 33% of the asking price. Notwithstanding her prior statement, the broker communicated my offer to the seller without comment. I ended up buying the piece for 30% of the asking price. Was my 33% discount offer a “low-ball”? Clearly not given the ultimate sale price.
When I purchased my first new car (many moons ago), I went to the dealer to do some research, with no intention of purchasing the car during that visit. The salesman asked what it would take to make the deal. Not wanting to purchase the car at that time, I stated a ridiculously low price. The salesman recoiled in horror at my insanely low offer and expressed forthright confidence that the dealership would never sell the car for that price. Over the next two hours, the salesman, and then his manager, progressively lowered their asking price in approximately eight incremental decreases, each time expecting me to raise my offer. I never raised my offer once . . . because I did not intend to purchase the car at that time. After this two hour dance, the dealership sold me the car for my original, ridiculously low offer. What is the moral of the story? My ridiculously low offer probably wasn’t that low or ridiculous and I probably could have purchased the car for even less.
I agree with those who condemn pestering buyers who continue to pursue a discount even after the buyer declines or does not respond. If the seller counters and a negotiation follows, that’s great. However, if the seller declines or does not respond, the buyer should stand down. Further efforts at this point are inappropriate.
Now, having lit the fuse, I am going to put on my fire retardant jacket and run for cover.
