Is it ok to negotiate and/or offer less than the listed price? What qualifies as a low ball offer?

[navetsea]

indeed, unless they reply back and insist or try to argue their offer is fair for you. I don't feel offended I just block them on my phone.

my uncle asked me once to draw an overview of the city layout like a caricature he wanted to be in this and that style mentioning long dead dutch artist name (not my style) since he is dutch, want it to be in color, want to print it in big size to be used in his theoretical future office, I said well I think about it... and a week later he whatsapp me that his business partner and he wanted to know if $50 is a fair offer.
I gave him a drawing in my style with no revision for free.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

That's when you hit the mute button and move on.

 

[J Leather Investigater]

Perhaps a waste of three seconds reading the low offer, but why get offended? Why give the offeror so much power over your emotions? Your getting offended is the far more significant waste of time, as compared to the three seconds reading the low offer. Hit delete and move on to the next offer without skipping a beat. Any intervening offense is wasted energy.



There are no fixed or established prices or values here on TFL any more than there are on E-Bay. Identical and/or substantially similar jackets are frequently listed here for materially different amounts -- sometimes at the same time. Likewise, sale prices for the same or substantially similar jackets are often materially different. Some sellers hold out waiting for the guy who simply must have their jacket, no matter the price. I am frequently astonished by the patience of some sellers with year-old listings. Other sellers are impatient and/or will sell the exact same jacket for materially less depending on their unique circumstances. Sometimes, the exact same jacket is resold here multiple times for materially different amounts. There is nothing sacred about the TFL Classified section. It is a marketplace like any other. People list jackets for unreasonably high prices, middle of the road prices, and below market prices every day of the week.

You state that, when you sell a jacket, you list it for "a price that [you] feel is fair." I believe you -- you are an honorable guy and you have the best of intentions. However, that does not mean that your subjective determination of a fair price is in fact fair. What is fair to one person is a rip-off to another and a steal to someone else. The fairness of pricing is inherently subjective and in a constant state of flux. Past sales provide some insight, but are by no means dispositive of future values or pricing. The most recent sale might be the product of an overzealous buyer . . . or an impatient seller . . . either way, the sale price may be distorted.

There is also a big difference between someone negotiating, and someone trying to take advantage of you. Don't forget that the guy that made the "low ball" offer is a troll that tried to scam any one he could around here, he had complaints from many members and Marc knew this. Did you read about nick losing the gw? Its a justified reaction to get offended because a known troll is trying to swindle you. Let's not take this out of context.( Someone sent me a low ball offer im offended) (a guy that is notorious for scaming people is targeting me, this offends me)

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I determine what would be the least I would take for the item...and won't sell it for less. Won't send it to a buyer unless I have the money in hand. I can easily say NO as well as YES. Since I control the sale, I never get offended if someone acts silly about the price. I just say 'just won't go that low'....in a nice way. If he wants to argue, he'll be arguing with himself.

 

[Superfluous]

There is also a big difference between someone negotiating, and someone trying to take advantage of you. Don't forget that the guy that made the "low ball" offer is a troll that tried to scam any one he could around here, he had complaints from many members and Marc knew this. Did you read about nick losing the gw? Its a justified reaction to get offended because a known troll is trying to swindle you. Let's not take this out of context.( Someone sent me a low ball offer im offended) (a guy that is notorious for scaming people is targeting me, this offends me)

This discussion is not about the scammer/fraudster referenced in the other thread, nor reactions to his communications and associated thievery. Rather, this thread is about negotiations between honest participants. A scam/fraud/theft is a completely different issue and one has every right to get angry and offended at, and outright hostile towards, a scammer/fraudster/thief.

 

[J Leather Investigater]

This discussion is not about the scammer/fraudster referenced in the other thread, nor reactions to his communications and associated thievery. Rather, this thread is about negotiations between honest participants. A scam/fraud/theft is a completely different issue and one has every right to get angry and offended at, and outright hostile towards, a scammer/fraudster/thief.

When marc was offered 300 for the 650 thedi and he got offended he was dealing with the troll. I was pointing out when he got offended there was more to it than just a lowball offer.

 

[Cyber Lip]

I'm always worried that if I price an item too high it won't sell, so I always just list an item at my best price with the intention of not entertaining lower offers. I don't mind getting offers, I can always so thanks but no thanks. What I don't like though are time-wasters that will do things like keep asking endless questions, or wanting me to take more pics, then ask for more pics, then more pics. You can always tell these 'special needs' folks will never end up buying and just seem to get off on wasting your time (and theirs oddly enough). What I really HATE though are people that get obnoxious with me if I won't sell something to them at some silly low-ball amount they came up with, as if I owe something to them. Or, will argue with me about my terms, or will demand I lower my shipping price when I'm basically asking only for the exact shipping cost. I had to block a guy here recently. Real piece of work. Russian guy, maybe some of you are familiar with him. Advice to anyone here selling a jacket: if you hear from a guy that says he's in Russia and starts beating you down on price and shipping fees to Russia, do yourself a favor and just immediately block him LOL. He'll make you regret actually trying to work with him.

Advice to sellers, don't ignore someone when they send you an offer, just because your price is firm. Sometimes people are prepared to buy at your asking price but will send a lower offer first, because hey why not, can't hurt to ask right? If you send them a nice reply saying sorry I wish I could but I can't, they might still buy. But if you ignore them, it's now awkward and they'll probably end up just not buying. This has happened to me a few times as a potential buyer, and I will never do business with someone that can't be bothered to reply to an offer request. Don't lose out on a potential sale by being a stubborn cranky-pants

 

[nick123]

To me, there’s an unspoken politeness thing where offering low, without any kind of explanation for doing so, just ruffles my feathers a bit. If it’s a quick three word message without any effort it just comes across as slightly nagging, whereby I feel I’m being milked (insert Meet the Fokkers meme here..) Of course, not in any way to put me in a bad mood or ruin my day or anything! Conversely, when I’ve been strapped for cash or wanting to quickly get rid of a jacket, sometimes a low ball offer has worked out. And Superfluous is right in regards to “lowball” being a subjective term which perhaps can’t be collectively quantified in a dollar amount.

And that’s just me and this topic is really intriguing because I don’t feel there’s only one correct belief.

If you’ve been low-balled best to pour yourself a high ball.

 

[robrinay]

Years ago I used to collect vintage fountain pens via a newspaper ad and would travel locally to check out pens for sale by people who replied to my ad. I carried a buyers guide with me and would pay a fair price based on the guide using the guide as evidence particularly when sellers asked ‘crazy ‘ prices. My ethical approach impressed old people who were selling their old school fountain pens (which were in non working condition), and had no idea of the value. I just wasn’t prepared to rip off little old ladies and gents or people who were in poverty.
Now when it comes to jackets (and antiques etc),there’s a perfectly good ‘buyers guide’ - the internet/eBay sold items etc. so there’s no excuse for sellers on these platforms not knowing the value of their item for sale. So there’s nothing wrong making an offer either low or high as in the main you’re not going to be ripping them off. They can refuse, haggle along with you or tell you to ‘take a walk’ and if they’re upset then they should have stated ‘no offers’. When I know the value of an item I’m selling I set a buy it now and I know my best price. Low ball offers are way below that price and I’ll send a counter offer. If you’re upset by a low ball offer, either ignore the sender or educate them as to the value of your item and send a counter offer ie haggle. The retail sections of all cultures haggle and some even set low prices and expect you to offer more (eg in certain parts of Japan I’m told).

 

[Superfluous]

I had to block a guy here recently. Real piece of work. Russian guy, maybe some of you are familiar with him. Advice to anyone here selling a jacket: if you hear from a guy that says he's in Russia and starts beating you down on price and shipping fees to Russia, do yourself a favor and just immediately block him LOL. He'll make you regret actually trying to work with him.

** Cough ** @Lebowski ** Cough **

 

[Marc mndt]

Don't forget that the guy that made the "low ball" offer is a troll that tried to scam any one he could around here, he had complaints from many members and Marc knew this.

It was the other way around. I reported the guy and shared my experiences. Only then other members brought forward their complaints and he got outed as a scammer.

 

[MrProper]

People need to put on their big boy pants and accept that the free market decides the price! Buyers can offer whatever they want and sellers can accept, decline, or counter. This is such a simple and universal concept it baffles me when people are “offended” by “low-ball” offers.

That is absolutely correct. Still, I don't have to like it.
For me there is definitely a difference whether two private persons are acting or business people.
In any case, treating each other with respect is important to me.
But I'm also a lousy negotiator. both when selling and buying. I always pay on it lol.

 

[Marc mndt]

Summing it all up, it's clear that people have different approaches when it comes to buying / selling here on the classifieds or in general.

Still, I cannot get my head around it that people think it should always be ok to haggle.

Classifieds example

Last week I bought an Aero b10 from @torfjord . He listed it for €200 shipping included, which I thought was a very fair price. I asked him whether it was still available and when he told me it was I let him know I was happy to pay asking price. Not for a second did it cross my mind to offer €150 (which I think would be lowballing) or even €180 for instance. I personally would feel uncomfortable haggling over €20 in this case. Either I want the jacket or I don't. Twenty euro will not make any difference and I would feel hugely uncomfortable asking him to come down another 20.

Had he been asking 280 (which I think would still be fair because the jacket was in mint condition) I would not have been interested and would not have offered €200. I didn't 'need' the jacket and I am sure there's someone else out there who's looking for exactly this jacket and is therefore willing to pay €280.

Again, this is just me and how my brain works. I cannot haggle with people who I consider friends.

Open market example

Some time ago I spotted a €1k jacket on vinted which was listed for €60. I offered €40 (because it had been listed for months without anybody showing interest) and the seller agreed. I didn't feel bad about offering even less than the low asking price for one second. Because it's an open marketplace and I was dealing with a complete stranger.

So to me, there's a difference between buying from fellow connoisseurs / friends and buying from complete strangers.

 

[MrProper]

Last week I bought an Aero b10 from @torfjord . He listed it for €200 shipping included, which I thought was a very fair price. I asked him whether it was still available and when he told me it was I let him know I was happy to pay asking price. Not for a second did it cross my mind to offer €150 (which I think would be lowballing) or even €180 for instance. I personally would feel uncomfortable haggling over €20 in this case. Either I want the jacket or I don't. Twenty euro will not make any difference and I would feel hugely uncomfortable asking him to come down another 20.

Had he been asking 280 (which I think would still be fair because the jacket was in mint condition) I would not have been interested and would not have offered €200. I didn't 'need' the jacket and I am sure there's someone else out there who's looking for exactly this jacket and is therefore willing to pay €280.

That's exactly how I see it.
If I want something, it does not matter if it costs 20 EUR more or less. And then I did not haggle.
If I only want it for less, then the question is whether I want it at all and it is not only a compromise anyway.

 

[navetsea]

sorry to hear the sour news, just when I thought online e-commerce is at a safer place today... I never walk around on that section of the forum, no need for extra temptation to spend my Paypal balance into, and beside I'm nowhere near size 42 lol, there is no point at all.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

Low ballers are scum who hope to prey on others misfortune and desperation. They have no scruples putting in insulting bids and they usually just quote you the price and a questionmark because they do this all day.
I used to sell a lot of watches internationally before the hobby got big back home, now I don't bother because of the insulting and annoying correspondance.

I'll ask you: Why would anybody who were not in a desperate situation agree to a price 20-30 percent of market value?

 

[Mich486]

I completely agree that one shouldn’t get annoyed by low ballers because that’s the only rational thing to do. Kudos to people that can just laugh it off when receiving silly offers. My brain just doesn’t work like that and while it certainly doesn’t ruin my day I get annoyed for... I don’t know 15 minutes Seriously though I don’t get why buyers always have to drive down the price no matter what the initial asking price is. I often list something used twice at half its retail price and people still come up with offers that are half of that. To me that is behaving like a cheap b******. You can do that obviously but I’m not going to form a high opinion of you...

I mostly sell through eBay where, as I’m sure most people know, you can set up your listing to not accept offers at all or to set a minimum amount below which offers are automatically rejected by the system. I’m good with that approach.

 

[Monitor]

Perhaps a waste of three seconds reading the low offer, but why get offended? Why give the offeror so much power over your emotions? Your getting offended is the far more significant waste of time, as compared to the three seconds reading the low offer. Hit delete and move on to the next offer without skipping a beat. Any intervening offense is wasted energy.

That's the thing - Low-ballers do get to me. But I hate haggling in general. I understand it is a perfectly normal thing to go through and coming into any sale not accounting for it would be naive and foolish, I suppose, but while I'm willing dance the dance on eBay, it's when someone from here tries to cut down the price to something idiotic - And it happens more often than you'd believe - then instead of just saying nah bro I have to take into account not offending the person, remaining cool, replying with something that'd make it appear I'm open to further negotiating while I'd just like to tell him GTFO.

I HATE this game and I HATE setting up $30 percent higher prices on everything I list, just to take hagglers into account. It's their game before it even began. And in the same manner as @Mich486 I suppose, it does affects me to a greater extend I'd care for.

 

[Harris HTM]

The few items I have sold or have for sale now here are listed only here or the VLJ forum. My listings are purely because I cannot justify so mant items that I barely wear. If I did it for the money or going for a profit, then I'd put them on Ebay and Vinted, ask much higher prices, exaggerate on their qualities and maybe being less honest about their condition.
However: 98% of my jackets and shoes are bought brand new, either directly from the producer or through an official retailer. I still think as a buyer: I'd seriously consider a used item only and only if the price was much lower than the retail price and the condition was really good. For a more worn-in product then I'd also expect a quite lower price, and this is reflected in the prices I ask.
For the above reasons I find the asking price in my listings more than fair; however I did not make any sort of research on similar used items before posting them (being too lazy or avoiding becoming biased or both). This means that my perception can be quite different than the market equilibrium. In that context I welcome offers and discussion. If the offer is considered ridiculously low then I'd first politely reject it and if the guy continues then probably ignore him.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

That's the thing - Low-ballers do get to me. But I hate haggling in general. I understand it is a perfectly normal thing to go through and coming into any sale not accounting for it would be naive and foolish, I suppose, but while I'm willing dance the dance on eBay, it's when someone from here tries to cut down the price to something idiotic - And it happens more often than you'd believe - then instead of just saying nah bro I have to take into account not offending the person, remaining cool, replying with something that'd make it appear I'm open to further negotiating while I'd just like to tell him GTFO.

I HATE this game and I HATE setting up $30 percent higher prices on everything I list, just to take hagglers into account. It's their game before it even began. And in the same manner as @Mich486 I suppose, it does affects me to a greater extend I'd care for.

The only people who don't get offended by low-ballers are people who can afford to not be low-balled or lack empathy with those who can't.