Is dressing vintage a purely modern day phenomenon?

[Miss Peach]

I've only heard of people wearing what we might term vintage or antique garments in the past as fancy dress. Lots of wealthy Victorians raided their family piles attics and actually altered original *Tudor* and later garments for fancy dress, to fit over the wasp waist corsets of their day, completely ruining them as historical garments.

fftopic: Can you even *imagine* just *having* TUDOR clothing in the attic?! Wonderful jealous shivers.

 

[crwritt]

Hadley H and Fleur, now we're getting somewhere! I know dressing out of the norm reflects a creative or somewhat rebellious personality, and certainly there have always been some people like that around.I love the ancient Greek dress!

 

[Chasseur]

I used to do quite a bit of research on 18th and 19th Century clothing back when I did re-enactment. Two related things come to mind:
(1) At different periods there where "revivals" or "fads" with the upper-classes for certain times. One can think of the Greco-Roman revival of the late 18th century (in particular in Revolutionary France of the 1790s), or the revival of medieval virtues during the Gothic/Romantic era in 19th Century (like the Eglinton Jousting tournament in 1839, the Scottish romantic revival, Lugwig of Barvaria, etc.), the-mentioned pre-Rafaelites, etc. But these tended to be “fads” that went in and out of fashion and for many of these people it was something one did at parties or events rather than as a lifestyle: ie borrowing great-grandmother's old dress from the attic for a party, or making up a rendition of a 16th Century gown for a party, etc.

(2) Also, as Lizzie mentioned some people in remote areas, or even because of age/choice essentially never caught on to changes in fashion. This didn’t just happen to the rural poor, but if you look at portraits of many British politicians they still dressed like it was about 1800 right through the 1840s (breeches instead of pants, and they kept 18th Century work/life habits as well). In many ways this was part of the attempt made by the aristocracy after the Napoleonic Wars to 'turn the clock' back after the French Revolution in the 1820s and 30s. Also in the days before mass produced clothing if you were a person of some means and had a tailor it was pretty easy to wear older styles and "not catch on" to the latest fashion trend if you didn't want to follow them.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I think that it's a natural thing to kind of stick with what was popular in your prime for most folks. My father graduated in 1978 and to this day still wears his hair the same as in his high school pics (after his greaser days) very similar to Kenny Rogers, these days it isn't quite as feathered as it used to be. A more modern adaptation. He also still wears all the Harley T-Shirts and such he wore then, some are still from the 70s and 80s.

My grandfathers both wear their hair similar to mine, parted on the side and pushed back with likely Vitalis in it. They both wear button down shirts, dress pants, and grandpa on Dad's side is a hat wearer.

Now me, I dress like my prime was in the 1950s.

 

[Marla]

I think that yes, intentionally dressing in vintage clothing is a modern phenomenon--made possible by the availability of RTW clothing. Even if a subculture in the 1940s wanted to wear Victorian clothing from the 1890s little, if any, unaltered basic clothing survived. What did remain were elegant fur coats, women's elaborate undergarmnets, and evening dresses. Essentially, items that had not seen daily use.

Up until the early 20th century when RTW became available for both men and women most clothing was hand-assembled, which is why during Victorian times a middle-class woman might have had only 3-4 dresses which she would disassemble and restyle when they wore out. Only the upper class had large and unadulterated wardrobes, but they also got rid of their clothing when it went out of fashion; passing it on to servants or charity.

Thus, I think basic, daily clothing of a specific decade of the Victorian era was hard to find even by the 1940s.


I think a pertinent question is: When did people start collecting vintage clothing and wearing it with the intention of authentically recreating a period-accurate look in everyday life? There have always been people who wore clothing of a previous time out of nostalgia (such as dressing in the fashion of your youth your entire lifetime), poverty, etc. but were there vintage enthusiast in times past? How soon after the end of the Golden Era did vintage clothing from the 1930s-1950s begin to be collected?

 

[Katzenjammer]

I think a pertinent question is: When did people start collecting vintage clothing and wearing it with the intention of authentically recreating a period-accurate look in everyday life? There have always been people who wore clothing of a previous time out of nostalgia (such as dressing in the fashion of your youth your entire lifetime), poverty, etc. but were there vintage enthusiast in times past? How soon after the end of the Golden Era did vintage clothing from the 1930s-1950s begin to be collected?

My off-the-cuff answer would be that it ties in with the rockabilly revival of the late 1970s and early 1980s...kind of an urban phenomenon, loosely aligned with the punk/new wave scene of the day. 1950s nostalgia was rampant in the 1970s, but I think the collectors/revivalists were the first to really embrace "retro" as a fully-fledged lifestyle.

In generational terms, they would have been late Baby Boomers adopting the fashions and styles of their childhood (and after suffering through the 1970s, who could blame them?).

 

[BinkieBaumont]

"It's so much easier for us Chaps, we just get to be referred to as "Dashing" purely because we bother to Don a tie & a jacket, I doff my hat to the ladies who go through the whole rigmarole of pin curl "hair Sets" and "Nylons"

 

[Miss Scarlet]

No one's mentioned Teddy boys here, but they definately embraced fashions of a by-gone era. In the fifties they dressed in jackets and clothing similar to that of the Edwardian age.

I think every element of fashion gets recycled, but as some people have said already, we now have clothes so readily available and cheap it now makes living in that style a viable option.

 

[Miss Sis]

Many of the above mentioned 'groups' of people like the Teddy Boys of the 50s were influenced by previous eras, for sure, but they bought their own interpretation to their outfits, rather than wearing original garments or actually aiming to re-create them historically as many people do now.

Look at the pic of the Teddy Boys - they have very un-Edwardian hair and they favoured fluroescent socks and 'Brothel Creeper' shoes with thick crepe soles. Not something seen in actual Edwardian times.

 

[Puzzicato]

Isadora Duncan and her brother Raymond come to mind.

"... Her brother Raymond had already decided that all shoes were obnoxious and had begun making his own sandals. Isadora's dancing clothes were starting to influence her street clothes. Now they decided to adopt ancient Greek dress..."


Raymond with wife and son 1912... this is how he dressed everyday.

Wow - I wonder what sort of comments he got on the street! What a very interesting family.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

Many of the above mentioned 'groups' of people like the Teddy Boys of the 50s were influenced by previous eras, for sure, but they bought their own interpretation to their outfits, rather than wearing original garments or actually aiming to re-create them historically as many people do now.

Look at the pic of the Teddy Boys - they have very un-Edwardian hair and they favoured fluroescent socks and 'Brothel Creeper' shoes with thick crepe soles. Not something seen in actual Edwardian times.

That's why I said "similar" and "embraced" There aren't a huge number of people who dress extremely accurately in retro gear today. It seems to be a small handful. Others take inspiration and skew the accuracy to gain the look they want as people have always done. I think it would be difficult to find people in the past who perhaps did dress more accurately as there aren't any files or newspapers to document them or indeed the internet like today.

Plus we have to consider the nature of servant history and practicality of clothes. Servants for the middle class severely diminished after 1900s and previous to the Victorian era only the rich had servants, so even if people wanted to dress in victorian or tudor finery, they'd find it very difficult to clean and do daily chores and go to work, unless they dressed like servants themselves. Fortunately for us vintage clothes are practical as well, which allows us to get on with our daily lives.

I agree with what other people have said regarding consciousness of fashion. I'm speaking very generally here, but only the elite in the past have had a main interest in fashion and the money to purchase it. It was probably just a case of pure ignorance for the majority (here I'm meaning the lower class) as it was something either they could never afford or had no use for especially since they wouldn't really be able to go to Victorian Dances or other such events.

We have the luxury today of being able to afford to go to events and afford these clothes and have the benefit of a wide library of information. We also have the luxury of scouring the internet for vintage clothes. If I didn't have the internet I wouldn't be able to find loads of shops I shop from or internet sellers. The methods of finding businesses in the past was severely limited compared to today's standard.

And that's the end of my massive explanation for why I think it's a more modern day phenomenon *phew*

 

[LizzieMaine]

The very idea of "vintage" itself is more of a modern contrivance, too, I'd think. When I was little I wore a lot of hand-me-downs, including some things that had belonged to my mother when she was a kid -- but they weren't "vintage," they were just old clothes, and that was the same way they were described when I started actively collecting in the mid-70s. I never heard the word "vintage" applied to clothing, or heard of any organized vintage-collecting movement until late in the '80s -- we didn't have subcultures here when I was growing up, and it took a long time for such things to filter into consciousness.

 

[Idledame]

I recall going to a Civil War re-enactment in the early 1960's, so they were "living" the era then. Also, I was collecting and wearing Victorian clothes in the mid-1970s, though there weren't many places to wear them. Mainly the gun and knife shows that had costume contests.

I think there have always been people who loved and collected "old" clothes and accessories, people who maybe just liked having them, and used them only for dress-up events. I think that's why so much has survived.

As far as eccentrics go, the children's author Tasha Tudor comes to mind. In the 1930s to a few years ago, when she died she totally lived the life of the early 1800's..including not having running water until she had her 4th child.

She created a magical world in her books, but reality was a bit different.

"She was totally involved in fantasy. She wanted to live in her own little world," said Thomas Tudor, the third of the children. "I found that when I was a teenager, it was very difficult to get back into reality."

What was magical to a child could be strange and alienating for a teenager. Their mother forbade the girls from wearing pants or cutting their long hair. "As a young child, I remember it being pretty embarrassing wearing homespun clothes, my mother wearing a shawl and a long skirt," said Thomas Tudor.

Her kids are now in a big battle over her estate.

The "official family website" http://www.tashatudorandfamily.com/
and how her family really turned out: http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2009/03/15/the_fall_of_the_house_of_tudor/?page=1

 

[HadleyH]

Wow - I wonder what sort of comments he got on the street! What a very interesting family.

I agree with you Puzzicato .

Here is another photo of them in 1912. And I'm sure they were not the only ones who dressed "vintage" back then, because at the end of the day, there is nothing new under the sun, it's not like the 20th century invented vintage dressing.

 

[cookie]

I agree with you Puzzicato .

Here is another photo of them in 1912. And I'm sure they were not the only ones who dressed "vintage" back then, because at the end of the day, there is nothing new under the sun, it's not like the 20th century invented vintage dressing.

That doesn't like like the scarf she wore driving....

 

[Widebrim]

One thing to keep in mind is that in small towns and rural areas, people were a lot less conscious of contemporary fashion than they are now. In the twenties, you could go to a farm and find people dressed not too different from the way people dressed in the 1870s -- overalls, work shirts, straw hats, shapeless calico dresses.

Very much so. My father, a native of the farmlands of north-east PA, once mentioned his first visit to the home of a school friend, in the 1930s. When he got to his friend's cabin, he saw the women folk hanging around on the front porch--all of them were wearing dresses made from burlap sacks. Granted, this was the Depression, but it goes to show that in rural areas fashion was not a burning issue...

 

[HadleyH]

That doesn't like like the scarf she wore driving....

huh??? [huh]

 

[40'sfetish]

huh??? [huh]

I think she's referring to Isadora Duncan's demise from her scarf getting caught while driving (I think that's the story) However that pic is of Isadora's brother and his wife and child.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

My mother in law (who is in her 70s) claims not to know where her mother was born or what her maiden name was. She is VERY much of the here and now!

My dad knows nothing about his grandparents -- didn't even know his grandmother's maiden name. I know more than he does because I looked her up on ancestry.com!

As for vintage dressing the the "golden era" - I think only the rich and elite could take it as far as Duncan's brother. Remember -- this was also the "golden era" of extreme conformity and also the "golden era" of the insane asylum! lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

We had a lady in my town by the name of Lucy Farnsworth, the daughter of an immensely wealthy limestone merchant, who from the time she was in her twenties until she died in the mid-1930s, lived her life as though it was the 1870s. Never got electricity in her house, never had a telephone, always wore black voluminous dresses, etc. Little children were terrified of her -- convinced she was some kind of witch -- but she was also the wealthiest person in town and whenever the municipal budget was in trouble or the school fund was in arrears, or whatever, the town fathers would have to go to her hat in hand and beg for a handout.

When she died she left her fortune to the creation of our local art museum, and her house, just across the block from where I work, is maintained as part of that museum, and it's as close to visiting 1870 as you can get. A fascinating place to visit.