Is chivalry dead?

[Auld Edwardian]

I coined the tongue in cheek phrase years ago, “Chivalry is not dead, it’s just an endangered species.” Chivalry I believe is a natural outgrowth of etiquette, or what we more commonly call manners. I like Emily Post’s definition of etiquette that I read in my 1941 genteelly out of date edition of her book. She explains that true etiquette is the considerate little things that we do throughout the day to make life more pleasant for one another. She further stresses that when one tries to use polite social conventions to make another look foolish or looked down on, it ceases to be etiquette and has become something rather ugly, that is snobbery. When one has been properly trained by whilst growing up, or has determined to develop polite manners on their own, it is a very natural thing to act in a chivalrous manner whenever the opportunity arises. Thankfully in my case I learned the basics at a young age, and determined to improve from there on my own. Also I have also resolved not to give in to this crass and vulgar age, and am now training my young son to be a gentleman. I have found that most ladies are pleasantly surprised, and appreciative, when I hold a door, or offer some other act of consideration. As for when I hold a door open for the angry feminist types, I just ignore the clenched hands and the angry expression on their faces because I dared to commit such an unforgivable act, because I know in the end I did the right thing even if they were unappreciative. In closing I believe that chivalry is not dead, however it is very much under siege in this present age. In the end we must decide as individuals, families, and even as a society if we value showing respect and kindness to one another, or to be selfish, self-centered, or even cruel. As for my family and I, we will always try to defer to chivalry that naturally flows from a proper understanding of etiquette.

 

[rue]

Well said :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I agree.."Very well said"! "Act of consideration" are key words..and always the right thing to do.
HD

 

[J C Nash]

We must remember though that the concept of chivalry goes back to the very early middle ages, it is essentially thought to be a series of rules for knights to follow (etymologically speaking, chivalry comes from the old french 'chevalier' which means horseman, hence the modern word 'cavalry').

It was meant as a male code of ethics for the chosen few, never for the masses. So perhaps us chaps here at the Lounge, as we are all undoubtedly chivalrous, can console ourselves in knowing that we are the chosen few and should perhaps lead by example.

We should never say that chivalry is dead or it will of course die.

 

[Auld Edwardian]

Dear Sir, I do indeed agree with your origin of the word chivalry, and do concur that we should lead by example. I spent almost 30 years in Scouting and leaned very hard on the boys by using the Scout Oath and Law as a basis of helping to develop a worldview based on honour, integrity, and service. I for one will never say chivalry is dead as long as there are those around that will remain ever resolute in living by a code of personal honour, and kindness and service to others.

 

[Feraud]

If we must live by an archaic code of behavior, I'll take duelling.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

If we must live by an archaic code of behavior, I'll take duelling.

...but I do assume that you would be kindly enough to allow me 'first shot'....

 

[Feraud]

..well it depends on who is being wronged in the situation.

 

[Mr Vim]

Chivalry is never dead, not while I'm there to hold a door open for anybody, but especially a lady.

I have only ever not opened the door for someone... that was in Kuwait coming back from Iraq, I was so exhausted I didn't see a civilian contractor behind me while I was going into the exchange. She even reprimanded me saying "I find it funny how you took the time to salute that officer but didn't hold the door open for me."

I replied "Ma'am, honestly I usually do, but right now I'm so tired that I didn't see you."

But it's not dead dag gummit.

Edit: ha ha, I just asked my co-worker who's on night shift with me and he replies "You can have my Chivalry when you pry it from my cold, dead hands." Well put Sir.

 

[McVolke]

One thing I believe a lot of women forget about chivalry is that it's a two-way street. Yes, men should be chivalrous....but women should be worthy of that honour and attitude towards them. Seriously. And I'm not a women's libber, necessarily, but wouldn't it be nice if we ALL shared the chivalry load?

Wouldn't it be nice if more people tried a bit of chivalry, every day? Just a bit, at least?? I'm female, but I open doors for elderly people or anyone who needs it. I'll let that person with just one item to purchase in the grocery line ahead of me when I have a full cart. And I smile and say thank you when someone does something nice for me. Like waving when someone lets me merge in front of them on the freeway. A smile goes a long way.

QUOTE]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I don't find chivalry dead. My 13 yr old son will hold a door open for someone without even thinking about it. And most people did say thank you. That was in New Mexico. Here in Germany I've lost him a couple of times as he held the door and then the next 30 people herd on through without so much as a Dankeschoen. As far as in the grocery store or the autobahn I find the germans very courteous and I do my best to do the same.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The real root of the problem today is that the concept of "chivalry" or common courtesy, whichever you choose to call it, is completely at odds with the Cult Of The Individual. Increasingly, modern values emphasize that the Self comes first -- that the most important purpose in life is Self Gratification, and that the Self owes no debt to society as a whole.

We see the results of this cult all around us -- the way people drive, the way people conduct themselves in stores and shops, the way most people seem to think that they -- and they only -- are entitled to primary consideration in any circumstance. If you stop and think about it, anyone can come up with a dozen examples of how this makes the world an unpleasant and hostile place every day.

Here's my latest example. The other night at work, we were hosting a busy concert, and during intermission I had to run downstairs and get a fresh cylinder of C02 gas for the soda fountain. As I was crossing the lobby carrying this forty-pound metal bottle over my shoulder, I was stopped short by this couple who were upset that they couldn't use a check at the merchandise table, and they insisted that I cash their check myself -- and were very upset when I didn't drop everything to deal with their needs, and directed them instead to the ATM next door. They could see that I was straining under the weight of the gas cylinder, and that I had a line of customers waiting for their soda, but that was irrelevant to them, because they were, after all, the Center Of The Universe. The Individual Uber Alles.

That, right there, is what's wrong with the world today. Everything else is merely a symptom.

 

[SGT Rocket]

The real root of the problem today is that the concept of "chivalry" or common courtesy, whichever you choose to call it, is completely at odds with the Cult Of The Individual. Increasingly, modern values emphasize that the Self comes first -- that the most important purpose in life is Self Gratification, and that the Self owes no debt to society as a whole.

You hit the nail right on the head with your post. I must agree. I also think that most people today, seem to know all of their rights but none of their responsibilities.

I like to shower and dress/look nice when I leave the house partly because of me, but also because I wouldn't want to inflict my body odor or bad breath (or anything else for that matter) on the general public.

 

[Feraud]

The anonymity of the internet is another nail in the coffin for a semblance of good manners.
The same parents who don't bother to teach their children common sense and basic manners are sure as he|| not monitoring their children's behavior online. Selfish children become selfish adults. A cursory browse of message board discussion bears this sad fact out.

 

[rue]

The real root of the problem today is that the concept of "chivalry" or common courtesy, whichever you choose to call it, is completely at odds with the Cult Of The Individual. Increasingly, modern values emphasize that the Self comes first -- that the most important purpose in life is Self Gratification, and that the Self owes no debt to society as a whole.

We see the results of this cult all around us -- the way people drive, the way people conduct themselves in stores and shops, the way most people seem to think that they -- and they only -- are entitled to primary consideration in any circumstance. If you stop and think about it, anyone can come up with a dozen examples of how this makes the world an unpleasant and hostile place every day.

Here's my latest example. The other night at work, we were hosting a busy concert, and during intermission I had to run downstairs and get a fresh cylinder of C02 gas for the soda fountain. As I was crossing the lobby carrying this forty-pound metal bottle over my shoulder, I was stopped short by this couple who were upset that they couldn't use a check at the merchandise table, and they insisted that I cash their check myself -- and were very upset when I didn't drop everything to deal with their needs, and directed them instead to the ATM next door. They could see that I was straining under the weight of the gas cylinder, and that I had a line of customers waiting for their soda, but that was irrelevant to them, because they were, after all, the Center Of The Universe. The Individual Uber Alles.

That, right there, is what's wrong with the world today. Everything else is merely a symptom.

I'm completely appalled by your story Lizzie. I'm the kind of person that would have left the line and lost my place to help someone, so that really bugs me that they didn't offer to help before asking for what they needed.

 

[bunnyb.gal]

Yesterday I let an older lady who was walking, with obvious great difficulty, with a crutch go in front of me on the bus, and she thanked me and told me I was one in a million and how she wished there were more people with manners about. I really hate to think what kind of behaviour she encounters on a regular basis.

The flip side of the coin is when I held a door open today for a fellow who was absolutely laden with packages, and there was not even a glance or acknowledgment of the gesture, and that so irritated me!

 

[Wojo]

We should not stop being courteous because of the actions of others. It just makes me shake my head in wonder when somone will walk away without a "thank you".

 

[Guttersnipe]

Y'all realize that vintage media is full of these same complaints, right? It seems to be a unifying cultural thread that every generation ends up pining for the lost charms of "the good ole days" nevermind that those charms may have never quite existed the way rosy mememories indicate.

ex: driving to brunch with my 80 year-old great aunt, someone did somethig insane on the road. One if use remarked something like "makes ya miss the days when people had manners and knew how to drive." Her response? "People have always driven like schmucks! This city has always been like a zoo."

 

[Ethan Bentley]

No.

 

[R.G. White]

Y'all realize that vintage media is full of these same complaints, right? It seems to be a unifying cultural thread that every generation ends up pining for the lost charms of "the good ole days" nevermind that those charms may have never quite existed the way rosy mememories indicate.

ex: driving to brunch with my 80 year-old great aunt, someone did somethig insane on the road. One if use remarked something like "makes ya miss the days when people had manners and knew how to drive." Her response? "People have always driven like schmucks! This city has always been like a zoo."

Each generation is right though. As the years pass, people become less and less polite. That's just the way of things. We're always going to have the same complaints; that doesn't mean nothing is changing, it means it just keeps getting worse. Not to be a pessimist or anything, it's just the cold reality.

 

[bunnyb.gal]

We should not stop being courteous because of the actions of others. It just makes me shake my head in wonder when somone will walk away without a "thank you".

You are so right; I wouldn't want to contribute to the ugliness in the world, there's enough of that. I just hope when I become a "Golden Girl" that there will be some courtesy left (if not, I'm sure my "Golden Girl" will morph into "Grumpy Old Woman" post haste!)

By the way, welcome to the Lounge, Wojo!