Is chivalry dead?

[Feraud]

Maybe it's regional, but 99.9% of all people here (man or woman) will hold the door open for you and will also say "Thank you" in return. It's just common courtesy.

Region is a good point to consider. NYC is and always was a fast paced city.
If a man were to doff his hat or hold a door for every woman he encountered he'd never get to work.

 

[Edward]

What it all boils down to is that if you use changes in society as an excuse for acting like a jackass, you really *are* a jackass. "Chivalry" is just a fancy-pants word for common courtesy.

Exactly.

One thing that really bothers me lately is that I keep seeing men that sit in the passenger seat of the car and the woman that was driving gets out and fills the gas tank. Unless he's paralyzed he needs to get off his butt and do it for her...

That would be the polite thing to do.

...and for that matter, he should be driving in the first place.

Perhaps in Saudi.

Excuses, excuses........

I've read that to but have yet to hear one woman say she doesn't want a man to hold the door for her and that she can do it herself - it's nonsense - a lame excuse for these particular men to get away with bad manners.

I'm beginning to believe such women do not exist. Never once have I encountered them. I have occasionally offered a seat on the tube or whatever and received a polite decline, never anything more negative and certainly never have I been made to feel that the offer was inappropriate. What bothers me far more, however, are women who say "I'm not a feminist, but". Hideous turn of phrase. I suggest such ladies watch the opening episode of Mad Men and observe that representation (which I understand to be wholly accurate) of how their forebears were often treated. If they find that acceptable and wish to be treated in that manner themselves, then let them come back and tell me they're "not a feminist". :eusa_doh:

 

[rue]

I always pumped gas for my ex and almost always drove. The only time she would drive is if we had a long drive, I have circulation problems in my legs, especially in the winter and it makes it hard to drive for a long distance. I will admit, I'm not a big fan of driving, either lol

Well, obviously that's understandable

That would be the polite thing to do.

...and for that matter, he should be driving in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps in Saudi.

[/QUOTE]

Really? I don't know why, maybe because I grew up that way, but it's just weird to drive with a man sitting next to me in the passenger seat [huh] I'm not saying I won't if he's tired or drunk, but I guess I'm just really old fashioned. Am I the only one?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I did make up for it by always mowing her lawn, washing and waxing her car, changing the oil, and all the other junk us men are supposed to do lol

Well, obviously that's understandable

 

[rue]

I did make up for it by always mowing her lawn, washing and waxing her car, changing the oil, and all the other junk us men are supposed to do lol

That's because you were raised right

 

[Derek WC]

Something funny - I opened my Grandmothers car door for her once and now she waits for me to do it for her every time, if I did that for a younger gal they might scowl at me.

 

[SgtRick]

Well, obviously that's understandable

...and for that matter, he should be driving in the first place.

Perhaps in Saudi.

[/QUOTE]

Really? I don't know why, maybe because I grew up that way, but it's just weird to drive with a man sitting next to me in the passenger seat [huh] I'm not saying I won't if he's tired or drunk, but I guess I'm just really old fashioned. Am I the only one?[/QUOTE]

No your not the only one.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

You're too nice to me

That's because you were raised right

 

[Tomasso]

I've read that to but have yet to hear one woman say she doesn't want a man to hold the door for her and that she can do it herself - .

I've recieved the response maybe four or five times. Lots of dirty looks too. And I can't tell you how many times I been totally ignored; no acknowledgement of any kind.



Funny story: I was leaving my club in Chicago and as I approached the revolving doors I noticed a thirtysomething girl standing to the side of the door. It was apparent that she had just had a mani/pedi in the club spa (sandals with cotton between the toes, hands with glistening wet nail polish) and was waiting for somebody to leave so as not to imperil the paint job by pushing the doors. I ushered her through but she never made eye contact with me and didn't thank me.

She then proceeded to the cab stand in front of the club and stood at the passenger door, waiting for somebody to open the door. So I opened the cab door for her and she gingerly entered, being careful of her fresh polish. When she was settled she just sat there looking straight ahead expecting me to close the door.

I must admit that at this point I seriously considered leaving her with the door open but I knew that she would have the driver get out and close the door so I went ahead and closed it. As the cab pulled away I started to laugh uncontrollably. Why? Because our group at the club would always tell stories of our run-ins with rude, arrogant, obnoxious members and now I would have the story to trump them all.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi Tomasso

I think you'd have been justified in shaking hands with her and saying "You're welcome". I don't know how hard it is to get nail polish off your hands, but it would have been worth it.

Later

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I dunno...all my life I have held doors open for others. If they are coming into a store behind me..or coming in as I'm leaving. Whether a woman..family with children...an elderly person..or just someone waiting for me to barge on through. If I'm sitting..and a woman is left standing...I just can't take it for long..I must get up and offer her my place to sit down. Most often I get a 'thank you'...but there are times that I don't. However...I don't do it for praise...or even acknowledgement..although a 'look' or 'smile' is always nice. Many people,anymore,tend to look straight ahead..deliberately..in passing..rather than offering a greeting of any kind. I most often try to speak..and many times..it seems to break the icy negativity and sometimes a smile comes out of hiding. Amazing how the whole attitude and expression can change..in an instant.
HD

 

[Tomasso]

I think you'd have been justified in shaking hands with her and saying "You're welcome". I don't know how hard it is to get nail polish off your hands, but it would have been worth it.

No way! Those nails were long and sharp; I'd sooner pluck a feather out of a hawk.

 

[Miss Golightly]

I've recieved the response maybe four or five times. Lots of dirty looks too. And I can't tell you how many times I been totally ignored; no acknowledgement of any kind.

Honestly, what is wrong with these women? It's like they have some kind of misguided idea that giving an abrupt/rude response or ignoring you somehow shows what a strong feminist they are - but no - it just shows how ill-mannered they are.

As for the girl with the nails - she must have been dragged up.

Great story though!

 

[Edward]

Really? I don't know why, maybe because I grew up that way, but it's just weird to drive with a man sitting next to me in the passenger seat [huh] I'm not saying I won't if he's tired or drunk, but I guess I'm just really old fashioned. Am I the only one?

My mother never has had a driving licence. Bit of a pain for my dad, I should imagine, as it has left her largely dependent on him for transport so much of the time. If he wasn't around or was unable to drive at any point, she'd be stuck. I think pretty much all my friends' parents mothers drove, possible less so than the men, but it was never seen as a gender role task in my experience. Living in central London where a car is an unnecessary financial drain, I haven't driven for years. I am occasionally a passenger in a car when I visit friends who live further out, mostly women. I've never felt at all unmanly as a result. [huh]

 

[LizzieMaine]

Region is a good point to consider. NYC is and always was a fast paced city.
If a man were to doff his hat or hold a door for every woman he encountered he'd never get to work.

There's a hilarious bit in the big musical number at the climax of "42nd Street" showing a guy doffing his derby at everyone going by -- he looks like one of those mechanical windup toys in action. In real life the "hat tip" was a mere motion, a perfunctory touching the brim of the headgear without breaking stride or exposing scalp.

Nowadays, of course, touching the brim of the headgear would mean extending your arm around to the back of your neck, and there's really no way to do that gracefully unless you happen to be Plastic Man.

 

[Pompidou]

Chivalry is the old man in Monty Python and the Holy Grail's "Bring out your dead!" scene. It's not dead, but there are people trying hard to A: pretend it is, and B: make it so.

 

[rue]

My mother never has had a driving licence. Bit of a pain for my dad, I should imagine, as it has left her largely dependent on him for transport so much of the time. If he wasn't around or was unable to drive at any point, she'd be stuck. I think pretty much all my friends' parents mothers drove, possible less so than the men, but it was never seen as a gender role task in my experience. Living in central London where a car is an unnecessary financial drain, I haven't driven for years. I am occasionally a passenger in a car when I visit friends who live further out, mostly women. I've never felt at all unmanly as a result. [huh]

Oh Lord.... I think you misunderstood me Edward.... I'm not archaic for goodness sake lol I do think women should know how to drive, among many other things (change a tire, use a screw driver, mow the lawn, etc), so that if they are without a man they can get on fine. But if a man is around, I should hope that he would be the one to do them.

 

[Tomasso]

But if a man is around, I should hope that he would be the one to do them.

I would hope so.

 

[Drappa]

I actually have arguments with my husband about him insisting on driving, and we occasionally fight over the car keys
The thing is, I am terrible at directions, and if I have been a passenger 20 times to the exact same place, I am still unable to tell how to get there or which vague direction I need to take, unless I have driven there myself (and even then I have to repeat it several times). It's a running joke amongst my friends and family how bad I literally am at finding my way, even on foot.
So, I just want to drive sometimes to find my way around town and get more confident about finding locations.
Secondly, it annoys me that my husband seems to see it as some kind of confirmation of his manliness to *always* drive when we are together (though I do drive on my own during the day) and to *always* hold the dog lead when we walk together. I just don't want that gender stereotype in my relationship, or to feel like he thinks it's necessary. If he didn't insist on it, it probably wouldn't even be an issue for me and he could drive whenever he wants, but as it is, it irks me. This probably isn't helped by my in-laws and their archaic ideas about male-female relationships.
And to be honest, I find that most men in my life are terrible drivers in one way or another. I just feel safer if I drive.

 

[Tango Yankee]

One thing that really bothers me lately is that I keep seeing men that sit in the passenger seat of the car and the woman that was driving gets out and fills the gas tank. Unless he's paralyzed he needs to get off his butt and do it for her and for that matter, he should be driving in the first place.

I've always pumped the gas when with a woman in her car whether she is driving or I am. Before my wife and I got married she'd hand me her credit card to use when filling up her car before I got out. I was quite amused the first time we stopped for gas for her car after she accepted my marriage proposal--I still automatically got out to pump the gas, but this time she didn't hand me her card as I was getting out! lol

Of course, I didn't really expect her to, but it marked a change in our routine due to the change in our relationship.

She also expects me to open the car door for her, based upon the fact that I always have unless there are extenuating circumstances. Our daughter commented recently that I'm the only one who opens her car door for her.

All it all it means that what we used to think of as "common courtesy" isn't common any more.

Cheers,
Tom