Is chivalry dead?

[DandyFlower]

Being from the south and from a military family everyone older than me is automatically Sir or Ma'am. Anyone much younger than me is 'hon' or 'sweetie'. I've never given much thought to the idea of chivalry because here it's just sort of understood that's how you behave. That goes for both men and women. You hold the door for whoever is behind you and you offer your seat to pregnant ladies, the elderly, and anyone who's carrying a lot of stuff.

 

[Lastmohecken]

Here in the south/southwest/heartland of America, Chivalry is not dead, at least not for the natives, however I can't speak for the transplants that have moved in here. But I will say that all of my life, I have never been told off by a woman for holding a door open, and usually get a thank you. But it goes both ways, and I have had women hold doors open for me, in which case, they get a thank you from me. I have never thought about it much past that, it's just automatic to do it.

I have been married for over 30yrs so I don't ask other women out for lunch very often, but if I did, or was to go out on a date, I would plan on paying for it, at least the first time, and basically always be ready to pay in the future, but if a woman insisted on paying, I would let her, as it wouldn't hurt my pride or anything. I have had women pay for a meal lots of times, but I don't expect them to.

The way I see it, both genders should treat the other with respect, and who ultimately pays will work itself out.

As far as Miss, and Ma'am, well I don't use those words, much, but when and if I do, it's based on my gut feeling of what is best at the time, but if I have ever offended someone over it, I never knew it.

 

[TCMfan25]

Personally I try to be as courteous and chivalrous as I can, to be respectful and polite to others. Give respect to gain respect, as a conservative person with morals this seems natural and necessary.
Hold doors open for people, smile at passers by, address with Sir or Madam, respect others (If rightly earned), and remember your general manners and place in certain situations.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I feel the same way. When dating, I always prefer to pay, but especially in a serious relationship, I don't mind if the woman picks up the bill now and then. My parents said they always went Dutch Treat when they were dating, that would work for me too. I just wouldn't want to let my pride over the bill ruin a good date.

I would plan on paying for it, at least the first time, and basically always be ready to pay in the future, but if a woman insisted on paying, I would let her, as it wouldn't hurt my pride or anything. I have had women pay for a meal lots of times, but I don't expect them to.

 

[Miss Golightly]

Here in Ohio, besides the Ma'am and Miss, it's "honey". Men call women "honey" and women call men and other women "honey". I don't mind it all [huh]

That's cute and wouldn't bother me at all either. I don't mind if people call me "dear" or "pet" although here in certain parts of Dublin you get called "love" - like "Howya love?". In the States recently it was "Ma'am" all the way and when in France I get "Madam" - fine by me although a lot of women hate to leave Madamoiselle for Madam - I haven't been a teenager for quite some time so that suits me just fine.

 

[Mr. Mahogany]

I would feel shameful not to open a door, do the driving or make dinner. Really goes into having good manners whether some women feel it's old fashioned or not. I guess it's a personality trait of mine. On the other hand there was this one woman I worked with that just couldn't stand that, it would just drive her to the edge just saying thank you ma'am or holding the door for her. But I think most women in general appreciate a guy with manners.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

Read through about the last five pages or so of this thread. Interesting.

Ever since our very first 'date', my Mr. has always paid for pretty much everything when we are out together as a couple, including my 'entry' fee for dancing at our favourite place on a Friday or Saturday night. I think he'd probably never even think to do otherwise. Tho' we have rarely gone out to dinner here, as he enjoys cooking for me! He never lets me wash a dish in his house, and seemed surprised and quite amused when I made up his bed the other morning.

And what is my end to hold up for all of this you may ask?? Everything that he does for me, he is affirmed and respected by me. I say "Thank you for making me dinner, Thank you for buying my ticket, It is so wonderful dancing with you, You take such good care of me." etc. His efforts being noticed, acknowledged and appreciated is what he receives in return from me. And believe me, that is priceless to him. He is the masculine man in our relationship, he is the giver and I as the feminine woman in the relationship, in turn I receive and respond. This works very well for us. Oh, and I never lead when we are dancing!

He is the one with the larger income, his kids are older and long out the house, and I'm a single Mom raising two teens.

On our recent 10 day road trip together (kids stayed with Grandpa- they were not on the trip with us), I did contribute financially a small amount to the trip cost as I was able, and offered that we take my more fuel efficient automobile to drive. He was just fine with that. All meals, activities and about 90-95% of the hotel and motel costs and all trip gasoline other than my showing up to start the trip on a full gas tank were covered by him.

When we did recently go to the County Fair in Placerville with my two teens, I did automatically cover my own and their costs (entry, carnival rides, munchies and the like). We all stayed at his vacation house, he bought groceries when we hit town and he cooked all meals for us the three days we were there with him. He taught us three to do archery, and play bocce ball at his property, we swam each day in his backyard pool. The kids and I said thank you for all that he did all along the way. After we got home, my teenage son and daughter each hand wrote and snail mailed him a thank you note.

 

[ButteMT61]

I went through a phase where I gave up on being a polite, nice guy as the Los Angeles area "modern women" seemed to despair at the audacity of my opening doors, etc.
Then, I decided they can go to you know where. I'll take the odd, evil glance and continue being a gentleman. If someone doesn't like it - tough. I raised my son and two daughters with this mentality, and I expect they will likewise raise their's the same way. If being "capable, independant, etc." means you can't appreciate a kind gesture, you're not very successful in my eyes.
Oh, and please ladies (not you here) go try out for the NFL and do some logging in Oregon for a few years...or work an oil rig

 

[Pompidou]

I went through a phase where I gave up on being a polite, nice guy as the Los Angeles area "modern women" seemed to despair at the audacity of my opening doors, etc.
Then, I decided they can go to you know where. I'll take the odd, evil glance and continue being a gentleman. If someone doesn't like it - tough. I raised my son and two daughters with this mentality, and I expect they will likewise raise their's the same way. If being "capable, independant, etc." means you can't appreciate a kind gesture, you're not very successful in my eyes.
Oh, and please ladies (not you here) go try out for the NFL and do some logging in Oregon for a few years...or work an oil rig

So long as the majority don't mind it, it's still polite. Once the threshold is crossed where more people disapprove of such gestures than approve, that's when I'd say it'd become impolite. Being polite is doing as the Romans do when in Rome. That's what I've always thought.

 

[Lily Powers]

I certainly don't think chivalry is dead, but I do think appreciation of kind gestures has one foot in the grave. You know, holding a door open for someone and they brush past without so much as a thank you; a kind compliment being received with something other than a curt 'thank you' or even silence... things like that.

At the building where I work, there are 3 main entrance doors, side by side. A gentleman held open one door and I opened the other and began to walk in. He said, "I held this door open for you and you didn't even go through!" I walked back out the door I just walked through, smiled, and went through the door held open and said, "I'm so sorry, I thought you were opening it wide to walk through yourself. Thank you so much!" I was embarrassed that I didn't pick up on his gesture, but glad he said something, otherwise he would have thought I was a snoot. And we joked about it as we walked down the hallway, so it was a pleasant interaction and a good way to start the day.

 

[Lily Powers]

I certainly don't think chivalry is dead, but I do think appreciation of kind gestures has one foot in the grave. You know, holding a door open for someone and they brush past without so much as a thank you; a kind compliment being received with something other than a curt 'thank you' or even silence... things like that.

At the building where I work, there are 3 main entrance doors, side by side. A gentleman held open one door and I opened the other and began to walk in. He said, "I held this door open for you and you didn't even go through!" I walked back out the door I just walked through, smiled, and went through the door held open and said, "I'm so sorry, I thought you were opening it wide to walk through yourself. Thank you so much!" I was embarrassed that I didn't pick up on his gesture, but glad he said something, otherwise he would have thought I was a snoot. And we joked about it as we walked down the hallway, so it was a pleasant interaction and a good way to start the day.

 

[suits lover]

Ah chivalry. It is something who seem to have been forgotten. Sometime peoples thank me when I open a door, sometime not or some women even have a strang stare at me. I have try 3 time to help my mom put her coat and I have only got bad reaction so I have stop with her, but my grand-mother is still pleased that I open the door of the car for her or help with the coat.

 

[Sharpsburg]

Opening doors, etc. is nice, but when i (female) am the only one who offers my seat on the Metro to a very pregnant woman or a woman with a stroller and kids, that goes beyond chivalry to just plain unfeeling social isolation. We are locked in our little bubbles with bigger problems than opening doors.

Just my .02.

Mary

 

[LizzieMaine]

Reminds me of the time several years ago I was riding the Montreal Metro after just getting out of the hospital following major surgery. I was carrying an inflatable invalid cushion, in obvious pain, and I had to hang onto a stanchion the whole ride, while oblivious teenagers occupied all the seats, with their dark glasses on and their earphones plugged in. If I'd had the strength and knew earthier French I'd have told them what I thought of them.

 

[C-dot]

Opening doors, etc. is nice, but when i (female) am the only one who offers my seat on the Metro to a very pregnant woman or a woman with a stroller and kids, that goes beyond chivalry to just plain unfeeling social isolation. We are locked in our little bubbles with bigger problems than opening doors.

Just my .02.

Mary

On the subway not too long ago, I watched a very pregnant lady get on the train, briefly paused to see if anyone was getting up, and when they didn't (quelle supris) I got up. She was kind of taken aback, asking me if I was sure twice before she sat down.

Its bad enough that I expected ignorance, but far worse that this lady was slightly shocked by courtesy!

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Yes, its dead... Thank God. It is so much easier living my life based on whatever I want.

 

[Miss Stella]

No, its not dead....just not taught to alot youngsters as it should be....because their parents didnt teach them.
But, by George, my son and his wife are teaching their son to be a little gentleman and when I watch him during the week I reiterate.
And periodically we turn on TCM or The Walton's
(have u seen children's television today?!! Not in my house!!)

 

[MikeBravo]

Opening doors, etc. is nice, but when i (female) am the only one who offers my seat on the Metro to a very pregnant woman or a woman with a stroller and kids, that goes beyond chivalry to just plain unfeeling social isolation. We are locked in our little bubbles with bigger problems than opening doors.

Just my .02.

Mary

What you say is very true. However, chivalry is not an end in it's self, it's the means to an end.

What has been missing recently is people setting an example of proper behaviour (as we at FL see it). It seems to me that if people were more aware of others, we would not feel so isolated (derr).

Even the simple act of opening a door for someone (male or female) sets up a connection between two people and can have a ripple effect from there.

I know a smile can make my day.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Gentlemen, whether or not chivalry is dead in a broad sense in today's society, I ask you this: do you really care?

We here on the Fedora Lounge are more than happy rejecting our society's careless and lazy attitude toward dress and chosing instead to dress in a more refined, some might say civilized fashion, so why should we care of society or feminists or anyone else rejects our ideas about chivalrous conduct? Chivalrous conduct is the mark of the gentleman; it need not be encumbered with anachronistic ideas about the inferiority of women in order to be relevant or praiseworthy. I consider women to be the equal of men in human dignity and worth, in intelligence, and so on, but why should I not treat women with care, consideration, reverence and respect? Is there any objection to such things?

If you aspire to be a gentleman, then by all means act like one and treat women in a gentlemanly fashion. If they cop attitude about it, it's really a reflection on them and not you, and you can further demonstrate that you are a gentleman by receiving their vitriol with grace and poise. In the end, you look like a swell guy and they look like feculent swine (got that from the slang thread!)

What do I think? Dress like a gentleman, act like a gentleman, BE a gentleman, for such a thing is worthy of praise whether our crude modern society thinks so or not.

 

[William Stratford]

Gentlemen, whether or not chivalry is dead in a broad sense in today's society, I ask you this: do you really care?

We here on the Fedora Lounge are more than happy rejecting our society's careless and lazy attitude toward dress and chosing instead to dress in a more refined, some might say civilized fashion, so why should we care of society or feminists or anyone else rejects our ideas about chivalrous conduct? Chivalrous conduct is the mark of the gentleman; it need not be encumbered with anachronistic ideas about the inferiority of women in order to be relevant or praiseworthy. I consider women to be the equal of men in human dignity and worth, in intelligence, and so on, but why should I not treat women with care, consideration, reverence and respect? Is there any objection to such things?

If you aspire to be a gentleman, then by all means act like one and treat women in a gentlemanly fashion. If they cop attitude about it, it's really a reflection on them and not you, and you can further demonstrate that you are a gentleman by receiving their vitriol with grace and poise. In the end, you look like a swell guy and they look like feculent swine (got that from the slang thread!)

What do I think? Dress like a gentleman, act like a gentleman, BE a gentleman, for such a thing is worthy of praise whether our crude modern society thinks so or not.

Here, here!

*raises glass to you*