Homburg Nation

[The Elizans]

Picked up this Battersby homburg from my local Salvation Army
Tried to search the net (including the Lounge) for information about Hattersby, but did not find much. But I do understand that they were big and considered of high quality in the old days.

Anyone have any idea of the age of this homburg?

Battersby made some fantastic hats, although they are hard to come by, even in the UK. Judging by the look of your hat I'd say late 50's-1960's. I have quite a few Battersby adverts from 'Punch' magazine; a society journal popular from the Victoria era until well in to the 1960's. I will scan these images and upload them somewhere on the lounge; they may give you a better clue of the date of this hat, although please be aware they are only graphic representations!

T.E.

 

[AEH]

Thanks

I will scan these images and upload them somewhere on the lounge; they may give you a better clue of the date of this hat, although please be aware they are only graphic representations!

T.E.

Looking forward to the scans!

 

[Not-Bogart13]

I'd suggest pushing out the pinch. With a pinch, it looks like a fedora with a too-short crown. Is the hat too tight? It has pretty extreme dip in the front and "wings-up" pretty high on the sides.

The hat is actually a little big. The brim and pinch are blocked into the hat.

 

[lc1484]

My Knox Homburg I won on Ebay for 50 bucks

This thing was a 7 1/2 LO...pretty pristine. just 2 moth bites on this baby and I brushed it away...I think I'm gonna put a couple of side dents on it.

Larry

<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0135.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0135.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0134.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0134.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0136.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0136.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0137.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0137.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0142.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0142.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0140.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0140.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/?action=view&current=IMG_0146.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/knox%20homburg/IMG_0146.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Mr. Paladin]

lc, that is a fine looking homburg. From my monitor, it looks pristine. Your side view shot looks great. A real gentleman's hat.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Finally got the homburg that I won off eBay (cf. eBay thread).

When it came out of the box, I could not stop stroking it!

It is made by Glyn & Co. of London and I would say it was made during the 70s or so. It is virtually pristine and the fur is soft and subtle.

My favourite hat so far!

 

[Dreispitz]

Right, here is something really fine and rare!

Homburg by Hueckel. My best Homburg, that only cost 5,50 EURO on Ebay

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=P1000366.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/P1000366.jpg" border="0" alt="Hueckel 1"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=P1000367.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/P1000367.jpg" border="0" alt="Hueckel 2"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=P1000368.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/P1000368.jpg" border="0" alt="Hueckel 3"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=P1000369.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/P1000369.jpg" border="0" alt="Hueckel 4"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=P1000370.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/P1000370.jpg" border="0" alt="Hueckel 5"></a>

Would be interesting to find out, if this hat is produced prior to collectivation by communists into TONAK, postwar. Does anyone have a clue if "WATERPROOF" had been indicated on pre 1945 sweatbands of other Hueckel specimen?

 

[mayserwegener]

I am thinking post 1945. The sweat looks similar to this 1954 Habig I just picked up. Does the loop thread to hang the hat pull out?

 

[ironhead]

Modified Bash

I didn't care for how the center dent looked so I decided to try something different. Here is my attempt at a diamond bash with a front pinch. Its a Brooks Bros/Herbert Johnson in superb condition.

.

 

[randooch]

Nice acquisitions, gentlemen. Charlie, let's see that in action! You too, Dreispitz. That Huckel looks like a rare find, indeed.

 

[Dreispitz]

Nice acquisitions, gentlemen. Charlie, let's see that in action! You too, Dreispitz. That Huckel looks like a rare find, indeed.

Here it is:

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=Hckel.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/Hckel.jpg" border="0" alt="H&amp;uuml;ckel"></a>

 

[Dreispitz]

I am thinking post 1945. The sweat looks similar to this 1954 Habig I just picked up. Does the loop thread to hang the hat pull out?

Your Habig was also on my watchlist . I did not bid, however. It loocked like a great piece! I would have dated it earlier, however. Is there a tag?

Here is a Habig Homburg, that might also be early fifties. Note the diferent sweatband. Obviously there were diferent styles around at that time.

Would be interesting to find other examples for pre 1945 Hückel hats, for comparison.

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=habig1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/habig1.jpg" border="0" alt="Habig 1"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=Habig2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/Habig2.jpg" border="0" alt="Habig 2"></a>

<a href="http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/?action=view&current=habig3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/dreispitz/habig3.jpg" border="0" alt="Habig 3"></a>

Note the delicate stitching at the sweatband!

Now, back to the Hückel:

What do we find, in order to date the Hückel Homburg?

1. The overall shape with the wider upper part of the crown was more to be found in earlier Homburgs up to the war. Please correct me, if I there is proof of later phenotypes.

2. The hat was sold through Erich Ladewig of Hamburg, Fuhlsbüttel. I checked the internet to find the hat shop. No records. There are documents of members of a family of that name having had severe problems with the Nazis because they were of Jewish origin and were active in the resistance movement against the Hitler regime. If the shop belonged to a member of that particular family, it is very unlikely, that the shop existed further into the mid 1940ies. Granted, that the shop existed bevore the war and is not founded after 1945, this would imply an earlier date of manufacturing. Today, however, there is no shop of that name.

3. Szise tag and "Waterproof": The szise tag features the numbers 59 and 7 3/8. 59 was the continental European szising and 7 3/8 for the US market.

Hückel saw its haydays up into the 1930ies and exported large quantities of hats all over Europe, Japan and the USA (eng. Waterproof!). Export of hats into the USA certinly stopped in 1941. So, the hat may have been manufactured before, or is export surplus sold in Germany. However this might be ruled out because of 2., since the members of the mentioned family were already arrested in 1938.

1945 the Hückel company was expropriated by the communists, when Germans had to leave the country, by force. I doubt, that in the first communist years hats were made for export into the USA or Germany. Hats of the Hückel site were now sold under the new name TONAK. Hückel was later maintained as a brand name for international sales, bearing the "Hückel Made in Czecho Slovakia" indication of origin (does your hat feature this?). The hat in discussion does not have any Made in... indication. The hat was possibly made at a time, when Hückel did not bother to indicate a "Made in Germany", even not for export-ware. Could be pre 1945, though. Having sayed that, there are also Hückel hats bearing a Czech made imprint. To ad to the confusion, there was also a Hückel site in German town of Ratibor, Silesia. Not very far away from the Czech place ..... .

4. We are talking about a Hückel "Mercur" hat. Are there any other "Mercurs" around in the lounge with dating or is there other reference available?

5. The print design of the lining could be another givaway. The design changed over time. One could narrow down the timeframe, alongside with the other collected facts and speculations.

I think the strongest arguments for a pre 1945 dating are 1., 2. and - proved we principally talk about a pre 1945 design, discontinued by the mit fourties - 4. and 5..

Might be absolutely wrong. What do you think?

 

[mayserwegener]

Your Habig was also on my watchlist . I did not bid, however. It loocked like a great piece! I would have dated it earlier, however. Is there a tag?

Here is a Habig Homburg, that might also be early fifties. Note the diferent sweatband. Obviously there were diferent styles around at that time.

Would be interesting to find other examples for pre 1945 Hückel hats, for comparison.


Now, back to the Hückel:

What do we find, in order to date the Hückel Homburg?

1. The overall shape with the wider upper part of the crown was more to be found in earlier Homburgs up to the war. Please correct me, if I there is proof of later phenotypes.

2. The hat was sold through Erich Ladewig of Hamburg, Fuhlsbüttel. I checked the internet to find the hat shop. No records. There are documents of members of a family of that name having had severe problems with the Nazis because they were of jewish origin and were active in the resistance movement against the Hitler regime. If the shop belonged to a member of that particular family, it is very unlikely, that the shop existed further into the mid 1940ies. Granted, that the shop existed bevore the war and is not founded after 1945, would imply an earlier date of manufacturing. Today, however, there is no shop of that name.

3. Szise tag and "Waterproof": The szise tag features the numbers 59 and 7 3/8. 59 was the continental European szising and 7 3/8 for the US market.

Hückel saw ist haydays up into the 1930ies and exportes large quantities of hats all over Europe and the USA (eng. Waterproof!). Export of hats into the USA certinly stopped in 1941. So, the hat may have been manufactured before, or is export surplus sold in Germany. However this might be ruled out because of 2., since the members of the mentioned family were already arrested in 1938.

1945 the Hückel company was expropriated by the communists, when Germans had to leave the country, by force. I doubt, that in the first communist years hats were made for export into the USA or Germany. Hats of the Hückel site were now sold under the new name TONAK. Hückel was later maintained as a brand name for international sales, bearing the "Hückel Made in Czecho Slovakia" indication of origin (does your hat feature this?). The hat in discussion does not have any Made in... indication. The hat was possibly made at a time, when Hückel did not bother to indicate a "Made in Germany", even not for export-ware. Could be pre 1945, though.

4. We are talking about a Hückel "Mercur" hat. Are there any other "Mercurs" around in the lounge with dating or is there other reference available?

I think the strongest arguments for a pre 1945 dating are 1., 2. and - proved we principally talk about a pre 1945 design, discontinued by the mit fourties - 4. .

Might be absolutely wrong. What do you think?

Very interesting information. I think you make a strong argument for pre WWII.

The Habig has a tag. The last number is 54 ($20.00 price tag). I have a couple of others where the last numbers are 61 and 64. I assuming this is the production year although I could be wrong. I don't see much difference between all three regarding sweatband and liner. Your Habig's sweatband is very similar to my Habig bowlers. Appears going by sweatband and liner might be problematic.

I have this Hückel 'Superior' that was made in Germany. The last number is 36 which might be the production year. Does yours have a tag?

You might want to also post this in the Tonak, Hückel thread. Others have vintage Hückel and Tonak hats and might have something to add.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=38737

 

[Dreispitz]

Very interesting information. I think you make a strong argument for pre WWII.

The Habig has a tag. The last number is 54 ($20.00 price tag). I have a couple of others where the last numbers are 61 and 64. I assuming this is the production year although I could be wrong. I don't see much difference between all three regarding sweatband and liner. Your Habig's sweatband is very similar to my Habig bowlers. Appears going by sweatband and liner might be problematic.

I have this Hückel 'Superior' that was made in Germany. The last number is 36 which might be the production year. Does yours have a tag?

You might want to also post this in the Tonak, Hückel thread. Others have vintage Hückel and Tonak hats and might have something to add.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=38737

Wow, these vintage Hückels turn out being highest class! Your hat is really stylish and definately pre 1945 because of the Made in Germany.

Do you have a Hückel with a matching linling print?

My Habig has a 53 at the same place as in your hat tag. My year guess was for the same reason. There is no tag in my Hückel.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wow, these vintage Hückels turn out being highest class! Your hat is really stylish and definately pre 1945 because of the Made in Germany.

Do you have a Hückel with a matching linling print?

My Habig has a 53 at the same place as in your hat tag. My year guess was for the same reason. There is no tag in my Hückel.

No I don't have one like yours but I think Marc C. or others might. He posted on the Tonak, Hückel thread I mentioned. Also posted some pictures on this Hitler fedora thread.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=38117&page=2

There is some interesting info regarding Habig at these links. I have made contact with Barbara Habig so maybe I can get clarification regarding dating.

http://www.habig.at/company.php

http://putyourhaton.com/history.php

 

[Goose.]

Goose, you are clearly a bright individual, but it will not save you! Your soul (and your bank account) are now forfeit! Mwahahahaha!

This new thread is most fortuitous. I just became a Homburgadore this very day. Pics to come.

Yep. It's nuts. Nuts to the point that I ordered a Hampton and the brim is too narrow for my mug. So, maybe a Homburg. Reasonable justification for a hat junkie.

Does anyone have a Akubra Homburg? Pics?
Looking at the Hats Direct site I see it in black. Grey would be tops for me.

Not-Bogart13, I like the Homburg in your first pic better. Smooth lines.

 

[rlk]

Stetson St Regis Homburg

Just nabbed this Stetson within a few minutes of listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...E:B:EOIBSA:US:1123&viewitem=&salenotsupported
I have two Homburgs at Optimo at the moment:
A 1920's Dunn & Co Black
Cavanagh Grey(w/dimples)
Also have a Gray Disney and Rusty Brown Raphael Weil White House(20's-30's)
which I can show if there is interest(no pictures at the moment).

 

[Charlie Huang]

I got to wear my homburg out in London on Saturday:

I actually had a good conversation on the train with the person sitting next to me on the train because I was in a black lounge.

 

[Mr. Paladin]

I won a like-new Barlesoni homburg in black on e-Bay last week and it came in yesterday. Its on the stretcher now because its the most 6 3/4-size 7 hat I ever saw! Pictures when I don't look like Oliver Hardy in it.

 

[StylinLA]

Homburg from Worth & Worth

Jumped into the Homburg Nation with a gray from Guerra (through Worth & Worth).

I was wondering if I could pull it off, and it looks more elegant than gangsta if I'm all suited up.

As a side note- the pics I took are pretty representative of the color. Dark charcoal color. The photos on their site make it look much more like a confederate gray- but I like this color fine.

<a href="http://s701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/StylinLa/?action=view&current=homburg2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/StylinLa/homburg2.jpg" border="0" alt="Gray Worth and Worth Homburg 2"></a>

<a href="http://s701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/StylinLa/?action=view&current=HomburgWW.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/StylinLa/HomburgWW.jpg" border="0" alt="Gray Worth &amp;amp; Worth Homburg"></a>