Homburg Nation

[Daniele Tanto]

"Tiger Hat" - "Import" - "Fabricato in Italia" - Homburg "Trento"
with a great felt in a fantastic purple-grey called "Solfuro" = Sulfide;
crown high at centre dent: 11,5 cm; brim at 6-6,5 cm
This hat is in a fantastic near mint condition and the also purplish
silk linning is absolutely wonderful, as the golden imprint logo is.
The size tag is the same as on Daniele's black "La Moda" shop hat.
All the ingredients from the materials to the workmanship to labels
speak a more pre- than post-war language - in my opinion.
But I'm curious what Daniele - the master of Italian hat industry -
has to say about it. Surely he knows even more...

Matthias, I came across your new purchase a few days ago, I took time to answer you because I want to be specific.
I agree with you in the comments regarding some details and the label of the same size as some recently found. The hat is very beautiful and certainly built for a high end costumers. Who could have made this is the question that intrigues me most. First because some elements are pre-war, others post, but this is normal in Italian industry between the thirties and fifties. Then comes the lining and some details like the paper label and one is led to think it was made after the war. It is a period in which some ancient minor Italian manufacturers ask me these questions that I honestly do not know how to solve. The hat is very beautiful and a high-class product that belongs to that group of Italian subcontractors who have supplied the great national brands and a series of foreign retailers who wanted to have freedom on the hats world market.
Un gran bel cappello

 

[Blare]

I recently bought a black Homburg. I want a gray one, too. It seems prices of gray ones are much higher. Is this just a transient condition, or is it generally so?

Possibly so.. depends on the hat really. I have seen a few Stetson St Regis in black go for more than a grey. The US vintage homburg market is interesting…. As there is less demand for homburgs over Fedora… but there is also less supply it seems. European market I have heard homburgs can be found more easily.

 

[Steve1857]

I recently bought a black Homburg. I want a gray one, too. It seems prices of gray ones are much higher. Is this just a transient condition, or is it generally so?

Welcome to the FL jviss and welcome to the Homburg Nation.

It would help if you posted photos of your black Homburg and state what grey ones you've been seeking. Make, size, vintage etc.

 

[jviss]

Welcome to the FL jviss and welcome to the Homburg Nation.

It would help if you posted photos of your black Homburg and state what grey ones you've been seeking. Make, size, vintage etc.

Thanks for the welcome, Steve! I already posted pics of the Homburg, here:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/homburg-nation.35848/page-176#post-2883271

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Matthias, I came across your new purchase a few days ago, I took time to answer you because I want to be specific.
I agree with you in the comments regarding some details and the label of the same size as some recently found. The hat is very beautiful and certainly built for a high end costumers. Who could have made this is the question that intrigues me most. First because some elements are pre-war, others post, but this is normal in Italian industry between the thirties and fifties. Then comes the lining and some details like the paper label and one is led to think it was made after the war. It is a period in which some ancient minor Italian manufacturers ask me these questions that I honestly do not know how to solve. The hat is very beautiful and a high-class product that belongs to that group of Italian subcontractors who have supplied the great national brands and a series of foreign retailers who wanted to have freedom on the hats world market.
Un gran bel cappello

Ciao, Daniele, e grazie mille!
Thank you for the detailed response to my post and my question about how you rate the hat.
Originally I was going to ask if you have any idea who the manufacturer might be.
But I thought you will ask yourself this question anyway and that it will be difficult to answer.
But your assessment that there is certainly a small subcontractor behind it is very exciting.
It confirms again your frequently made statement that the Italian hat industry at that time had the knowledge and the skills to produce very high quality hats, even in such "small companies",
because one thing is certain and essential for me - no matter whether it's the 30s or the 50s:
È un grande cappello italiano - ein großartiger italienischer Hut!

 

[steur]

I recently bought a black Homburg. I want a gray one, too. It seems prices of gray ones are much higher. Is this just a transient condition, or is it generally so?

Black is not a popular colour for any kind of hat in general, so they tend to go cheaper. The supply for black hats, certainly vintage ones has been far greater though than other colours. For dress hats in the European situation there are several reasons for this. Historically true black has been hard to achieve for hatters. Wearing a black hat was a sign you could afford to do so. The more formal hats like bowlers and toppers were and still are (mostly) black. Secondly it made sense to wear black hats because up untill the late sixties and early seventies of the last century, people used to use coal (or peat) for warming their houses and the soot that came down on your hat and clothes on a daily basis would ruin a lighter coloured hat quickly. Add to that the soot coming from industrial activities and a lighter hat didn't make much sense for most people. Then there's the religious aspect of clothing, where certainly in protestant circles other colours than black were frowned upon as frivolous and not solemn enough. At a time where most people would have only two suits and two hats, one for workdays and one for sundays, the best hat would be kept for sunday and it would likely be formal and black. When I'm searching for vintage hats I come across untold numbers of black hats, both fedoras and homburgs. Other colours far less. This seems to be different for the US though, where the black hat somehow seems less prolific.

 

[mayserwegener]

Black is not a popular colour for any kind of hat in general, so they tend to go cheaper. The supply for black hats, certainly vintage ones has been far greater though than other colours. For dress hats in the European situation there are several reasons for this. Historically true black has been hard to achieve for hatters. Wearing a black hat was a sign you could afford to do so. The more formal hats like bowlers and toppers were and still are (mostly) black. Secondly it made sense to wear black hats because up untill the late sixties and early seventies of the last century, people used to use coal (or peat) for warming their houses and the soot that came down on your hat and clothes on a daily basis would ruin a lighter coloured hat quickly. Add to that the soot coming from industrial activities and a lighter hat didn't make much sense for most people. Then there's the religious aspect of clothing, where certainly in protestant circles other colours than black were frowned upon as frivolous and not solemn enough. At a time where most people would have only two suits and two hats, one for workdays and one for sundays, the best hat would be kept for sunday and it would likely be formal and black. When I'm searching for vintage hats I come across untold numbers of black hats, both fedoras and homburgs. Other colours far less. This seems to be different for the US though, where the black hat somehow seems less prolific.

Great observations! I would say In the US most 1920s and older hats were black. Probably similar reasons. Also followed English trends which were conservative.

 

[steur]

Great observations! I would say In the US most 1920s and older hats were black. Probably similar reasons. Also followed English trends which were conservative.

Thanks, Steve. And true: we see far more early US made hats that are black.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks, Steve. And true: we see far more early US made hats that are black.

Stefan, American hat companies pretty much followed the English Men's Stiff and Soft Felt (Dress styles) hat industry of the later 19th Century . The English actually resisted late 19th Century European Soft Felt Hat styles but Edward VII made an impact. The US was less resistant but still more in line with the English. I have interesting info from that time. The European companies offered a much larger range of colors for Soft Felt Hats (Wool and Fur Felts) so led the way. Also Dress Velours (finest from Austrian companies) started becoming popular in England and America around 1910.

 

[Rmccamey]

Hoping to renew my Homburg card in the Nation after a long absence with this perfect black on black Royal Stetson homburg. Initially I was concerned that it was not a St. Regis as are so many Stetson homburgs. When I had it in-hand, it became much clearer. According to the reorder tag, this hat was made in Canada. I assume that could explain the lack of the St. Regis branding.

 

[Steve1857]

Hoping to renew my Homburg card in the Nation after a long absence with this perfect black on black Royal Stetson homburg. Initially I was concerned that it was not a St. Regis as are so many Stetson homburgs. When I had it in-hand, it became much clearer. According to the reorder tag, this hat was made in Canada. I assume that could explain the lack of the St. Regis branding.

View attachment 396269 View attachment 396270 View attachment 396271 View attachment 396272 View attachment 396273 View attachment 396274 View attachment 396275

Welcome back, Randy. Back in style indeed. That is one nice Stetson black Homburg, St. Regis or not.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I received the gray one, the second one I mention, in the mail today. Slight water damage on the bottom of the box, but otherwise O.K. Hat seems well-worn, but pretty good. I cleaned it with a lint roller and a hat brush, steamed it first into an open crown, then put a center crease and a front pinch in it, and put it on. Ugh! It's way big! A closer examination of the tag reveals it's a 7 3/8, not a 7 1/8. This is confirmed by the tag inside the sweat band. Bummer! Contacted seller. I'd like to keep the box! Maybe I should just sell the hat separately.

Like Stefan said , it’s not a homburg but rather a fedora. The brim is on the short side, but it does have a Cavanagh / felted edge. The vintage market takes patience…not that I have any myself. The I’ll try to keep an eye open for you.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Black is not a popular colour for any kind of hat in general, so they tend to go cheaper. The supply for black hats, certainly vintage ones has been far greater though than other colours. For dress hats in the European situation there are several reasons for this. Historically true black has been hard to achieve for hatters. Wearing a black hat was a sign you could afford to do so. The more formal hats like bowlers and toppers were and still are (mostly) black. Secondly it made sense to wear black hats because up untill the late sixties and early seventies of the last century, people used to use coal (or peat) for warming their houses and the soot that came down on your hat and clothes on a daily basis would ruin a lighter coloured hat quickly. Add to that the soot coming from industrial activities and a lighter hat didn't make much sense for most people. Then there's the religious aspect of clothing, where certainly in protestant circles other colours than black were frowned upon as frivolous and not solemn enough. At a time where most people would have only two suits and two hats, one for workdays and one for sundays, the best hat would be kept for sunday and it would likely be formal and black. When I'm searching for vintage hats I come across untold numbers of black hats, both fedoras and homburgs. Other colours far less. This seems to be different for the US though, where the black hat somehow seems less prolific.

You’re not letting those unloved black hats in 61-62cm suffer when there is an overseas adoption program waiting for them, are you? While still not my favorite, I’ve grown to appreciate black hats.

 

[steur]

Hoping to renew my Homburg card in the Nation after a long absence with this perfect black on black Royal Stetson homburg. Initially I was concerned that it was not a St. Regis as are so many Stetson homburgs. When I had it in-hand, it became much clearer. According to the reorder tag, this hat was made in Canada. I assume that could explain the lack of the St. Regis branding.

View attachment 396269 View attachment 396270 View attachment 396271 View attachment 396272 View attachment 396273 View attachment 396274 View attachment 396275

The membership card is valid for a lifetime, Randy, but a hat like that does add bonus points! It looks great.

You’re not letting those unloved black hats in 61-62cm suffer when there is an overseas adoption program waiting for them, are you? While still not my favorite, I’ve grown to appreciate black hats.

Unloved and unwanted hats always get the option to make the trip overseas, Brent. But they seem to be in hiding right now. It's easy to overlook black hats, because they are understated. But they are as good as anything else of course. I have just as many black hats in my collection as I have brown hats.

 

[Rmccamey]

Thanks gents!

Welcome back, Randy. Back in style indeed. That is one nice Stetson black Homburg, St. Regis or not.

The membership card is valid for a lifetime, Randy, but a hat like that does add bonus points! It looks great.


Unloved and unwanted hats always get the option to make the trip overseas, Brent. But they seem to be in hiding right now. It's easy to overlook black hats, because they are understated. But they are as good as anything else of course. In have just as many black hats in my collection as I have brown hats.

 

[Rmccamey]

On a lighter note (pun intended), does anyone have a Homburg in a Winchester Sahara felt (i.e., tan/sand)? Here is a tan (might be Sahara) & light brown pic I found somewhere. I have a Sahara & copper fedora (second pic) but it seems to be more of a spring/fall hat for me and I'm not sure if it would really be the right color for a more formal Homburg. So, I'm searching for a few examples. Thanks.

 

[steur]

On a lighter note (pun intended), does anyone have a Homburg in a Winchester Sahara felt (i.e., tan/sand)? Here is a tan (might be Sahara) & light brown pic I found somewhere. I have a Sahara & copper fedora (second pic) but it seems to be more of a spring/fall hat for me and I'm not sure if it would really be the right color for a more formal Homburg. So, I'm searching for a few examples. Thanks.

View attachment 396466 View attachment 396467

Those are not easy to find, Randy. Almost always brown homburg hats are a darker tone. Here are two in a lighter colour, but not exactly a tan or sand.

Borsalino Nobelsca (more a lords hat)

Wegener Niederrad

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Those are not easy to find, Randy. Almost always brown homburg hats are a darker tone. Here are two in a lighter colour, but not exactly a tan or sand.

Borsalino Nobelsca (more a lords hat)
View attachment 396610

Wegener Niederrad
View attachment 396611

I’ll take one of each.
And now I’m back to thinking that I need another homburg.

 

[steur]

I’ll take one of each.
And now I’m back to thinking that I need another homburg.

See?: only happy thoughts!

 

[Rmccamey]

Thanks, Stefan, a couple of great hats you have. I'm thinking the mid-brown or chocolate for the ribbon might be the best choice.

Those are not easy to find, Randy. Almost always brown homburg hats are a darker tone. Here are two in a lighter colour, but not exactly a tan or sand.

Borsalino Nobelsca (more a lords hat)
View attachment 396610

Wegener Niederrad
View attachment 396611