Homburg Nation

[mayserwegener]

Panos, I bow to Stefan's @steur and Steve's @mayserwegener superior knowledge and experience.
My Oldham & Fogg catalogue has made me too eager to find hats with the labels offered, or at least similar.
It's also nice to know that back in the day, English hats were something to emulate. As we say were I come from, "The best form of flattery is imitation."

Steve, It could be Oldham & Fogg. I think your info is valid too. Hopefully more examples are discovered.

 

[Steve1857]

Steve, It could be Oldham & Fogg. I think your info is valid too. Hopefully more examples are discovered.

Yes, that would be wonderful, Steve.
On the evidence so far, I'm leaning more to yours and Stefan's insights.

Super stamps you found on your Czech trip, btw.

 

[PanosChris]

Yes, that would be wonderful, Steve.
On the evidence so far, I'm leaning more to yours and Stefan's insights.

Super stamps you found on your Czech trip, btw.

Glad to see it found a good home, Panos. I have been following that hat for the longest time and assumed it was a Mossant (I believe it was sold with a Mossant hatbox). While the heraldry points towards England as its country of origin, I'm not entirely convinced. It could well be that it was French made, with the manufacturer using the English heraldry to make it appear English and perhaps a higher price.

Steve, It could be Oldham & Fogg. I think your info is valid too. Hopefully more examples are discovered.

Gentlemen thank you all for your kind comments and valid arguments! Me, first and foremost I would love it to be English, they seem way far in between, especially the prewar ones. As noted though, the lion/capricorn symbols and the alikes were favoured by other manufactures and especially French, I would say, for marketing or other purposes. Several examples in the dedicated threads. A few of mine.

Another unknown maker with French sizing with English coat of arms

Ecuyer and Thomas

Sools- though not a maker

Lions in a Barbisio

I don't think I've seen an English hat without English sizing though. Also the style and particularly the bow are very "French". Was it a Mossant that I can recall with pretty much same bow style? English hats were more "reserved" if I am allowed to say. These last things are of course personal perceptions rather than scientific evidence, so take it with a good grain of salt. In any case in my heart this is a French disguised as an English for it be sold better (!) and yet failed....It's pretty much unworn. Does that make any sense?

 

[Steve1857]

Gentlemen thank you all for your kind comments and valid arguments! Me, first and foremost I would love it to be English, they seem way far in between, especially the prewar ones. As noted though, the lion/capricorn symbols and the alikes were favoured by other manufactures and especially French, I would say, for marketing or other purposes. Several examples in the dedicated threads. A few of mine.

Another unknown maker with French sizing with English coat of arms
View attachment 386267 View attachment 386268
Ecuyer and Thomas View attachment 386264

Sools- though not a maker
View attachment 386265
Lions in a Barbisio
View attachment 386266

I don't think I've seen an English hat without English sizing though. Also the style and particularly the bow are very "French". Was it a Mossant that I can recall with pretty much same bow style? English hats were more "reserved" if I am allowed to say. These last things are of course personal perceptions rather than scientific evidence, so take it with a good grain of salt. In any case in my heart this is a French disguised as an English for it be sold better (!) and yet failed....It's pretty much unworn. Does that make any sense?

It all makes sense, Panos.
I'm not particularly patriotic, but I love the idea that it's a French hat disguised as an English hat in order that it can sell more.
I don't think that marketing ploy would work today

 

[steur]

Wow, Stefan, I wasn't aware that I'm the only one on the FL with an Oldham & Fogg hat. I wish my two trump cards revealed more about the company.

You need to take extra good care of it now! It is a bit strange for a company that was in business for that amount of time that so few of their hats show up. I was thinking that maybe they were a jobber manufacturer, making hats under other brand names, but the advertising from 1951 (posted above) where they are specifically named, speaks against that. I guess we just need to look harder.

 

[steur]

Gentlemen thank you all for your kind comments and valid arguments! Me, first and foremost I would love it to be English, they seem way far in between, especially the prewar ones. As noted though, the lion/capricorn symbols and the alikes were favoured by other manufactures and especially French, I would say, for marketing or other purposes. Several examples in the dedicated threads. A few of mine.

Another unknown maker with French sizing with English coat of arms
View attachment 386267 View attachment 386268
Ecuyer and Thomas View attachment 386264

Sools- though not a maker
View attachment 386265
Lions in a Barbisio
View attachment 386266

I don't think I've seen an English hat without English sizing though. Also the style and particularly the bow are very "French". Was it a Mossant that I can recall with pretty much same bow style? English hats were more "reserved" if I am allowed to say. These last things are of course personal perceptions rather than scientific evidence, so take it with a good grain of salt. In any case in my heart this is a French disguised as an English for it be sold better (!) and yet failed....It's pretty much unworn. Does that make any sense?

It all makes sense, Panos.
I'm not particularly patriotic, but I love the idea that it's a French hat disguised as an English hat in order that it can sell more.
I don't think that marketing ploy would work today

I think the "English Style" was very much in demand in the late 19th and early 20th century. The Empire was more or less at the height of its power and several brands had locations in Paris.

 

[Steve1857]

I think the "English Style" was very much in demand in the late 19th and early 20th century. The Empire was more or less at the height of its power and several brands had locations in Paris.

So very true, Stefan. Many of the labels one could order from the Oldham & Fogg catalogue are worded in one way or another that suggest the Englishness of the hat was its finest feature.

 

[Rumad]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

View attachment 385850 View attachment 385851 View attachment 385852 View attachment 385853 View attachment 385854 View attachment 385855

Very nice

 

[mayserwegener]

Dermotta Wien, 57 cm, possibly late 1950s. High quality Black Felt that easily dry creases and has a soft Hand. Classic Homburg form with a slightly offset Bow.

Open Crown

Natural Light

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

It's still busy and I'm short on time, but I do have to dedicate some time
to the fantastic pile of hats the reindeer from the far north have brought for Christmas.
I thought I'd start with one - if not THE - favorite from the bunch:

"Tiger Hat" - "Import" - "Fabricato in Italia" - Homburg "Trento"
with a great felt in a fantastic purple-grey called "Solfuro" = Sulfide;
crown high at centre dent: 11,5 cm; brim at 6-6,5 cm
This hat is in a fantastic near mint condition and the also purplish
silk linning is absolutely wonderful, as the golden imprint logo is.
The size tag is the same as on Daniele's black "La Moda" shop hat.
All the ingredients from the materials to the workmanship to labels
speak a more pre- than post-war language - in my opinion.
But I'm curious what Daniele - the master of Italian hat industry -
has to say about it. Surely he knows even more...

 

[steur]

It's still busy and I'm short on time, but I do have to dedicate some time
to the fantastic pile of hats the reindeer from the far north have brought for Christmas.
I thought I'd start with one - if not THE - favorite from the bunch:

"Tiger Hat" - "Import" - "Fabricato in Italia" - Homburg "Trento"
with a great felt in a fantastic purple-grey called "Solfuro" = Sulfide;
crown high at centre dent: 11,5 cm; brim at 6-6,5 cm
This hat is in a fantastic near mint condition and the also purplish
silk linning is absolutely wonderful, as the golden imprint logo is.
The size tag is the same as on Daniele's black "La Moda" shop hat.
All the ingredients from the materials to the workmanship to labels
speak a more pre- than post-war language - in my opinion.
But I'm curious what Daniele - the master of Italian hat industry -
has to say about it. Surely he knows even more...

Fabulous hat, Matt. Gorgeous colour scheme, magnificent liner and good proportions. And it's called Tiger hat: how cool does it get?

 

[steur]

No brand woolfelt lords hat in black. Technically not exactly a homburg or lords hat, but I'll post it here anyway. French manufacture, judging by the size label (and the country where I got it from). I find these older woolfelt survivor hats hard to resist. Overwelt curled brim at 5cm and crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. Failry light for a woolfelt at 116 grams. These twisted wind cords we find only on older hats.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Fabulous hat, Matt. Gorgeous colour scheme, magnificent liner and good proportions. And it's called Tiger hat: how cool does it get?

Thank you, Stefan! And it even matches my house jacket perfectly in color
- will probably be my new house hat

 

[jviss]

I'm a new member, and just bought my first good hat. Well, depends on your definition of good, I guess. And that's not counting the gorgeous Carl Fiedler opera hat I acquired 13 or so years ago.

I'm going to a black tie wedding this month, and my research indicated that the proper hat for black tie is a Homburg. So, I struck it well on eBay, quickly, with this beauty:

It's a Know Twenty in the proper Knox box. Size is 7 1/8. It's beautiful, like brand new, and fits me perfectly. I couldn't be happier. Well, being the OCD fellow that I am...the sweat band is embossed in gold with the original owner's three initials. I wish it wasn't there, or that I knew how to remove it. But c'est la vie, that's what you get with used hats! Just about $100 plus reasonable shipping. I have more pics if anyone is interested. Now I'm obsessing over storage. I'm going to do some minor repair and reinforcement of the box, and drop a cedar chip into it.

Not knowing where to stop, and after watching a bunch of Kevin's Youtube videos (Guitars and Hats), I picked this one up, too:

It's a Dobbs in a Knox box. The crown is all bashed up:

But, I have a garment steamer, and will use the large ball on my brass bed as a form to put it back in shape - my very first hat project! Only $50 plus $10 to ship.

Still unable to stop myself, I thought a Fedora would go well with my new, medium blue, sharkskin suit. So, there's this, on the way:

It's a Knox Custom. Looks new in the pics. I think it's a Fedora! I guess it could be a Homburg. Opinions, please! I will put a pinch in the crown. Also $50 plus $10 to ship. No box was mentioned.

Cheers!

jv

 

[steur]

I'm a new member, and just bought my first good hat. Well, depends on your definition of good, I guess. And that's not counting the gorgeous Carl Fiedler opera hat I acquired 13 or so years ago.

I'm going to a black tie wedding this month, and my research indicated that the proper hat for black tie is a Homburg. So, I struck it well on eBay, quickly, with this beauty:

It's a Know Twenty in the proper Knox box. Size is 7 1/8. It's beautiful, like brand new, and fits me perfectly. I couldn't be happier. Well, being the OCD fellow that I am...the sweat band is embossed in gold with the original owner's three initials. I wish it wasn't there, or that I knew how to remove it. But c'est la vie, that's what you get with used hats! Just about $100 plus reasonable shipping. I have more pics if anyone is interested. Now I'm obsessing over storage. I'm going to do some minor repair and reinforcement of the box, and drop a cedar chip into it.

Not knowing where to stop, and after watching a bunch of Kevin's Youtube videos (Guitars and Hats), I picked this one up, too:

It's a Dobbs in a Knox box. The crown is all bashed up:

But, I have a garment steamer, and will use the large ball on my brass bed as a form to put it back in shape - my very first hat project! Only $50 plus $10 to ship.

Still unable to stop myself, I thought a Fedora would go well with my new, medium blue, sharkskin suit. So, there's this, on the way:

It's a Knox Custom. Looks new in the pics. I think it's a Fedora! I guess it could be a Homburg. Opinions, please! I will put a pinch in the crown. Also $50 plus $10 to ship. No box was mentioned.

Cheers!

jv

Welcome to the lounge first of all. Looks like you got some fine hats for your first haul. The Knox Twenty is the true homburg. The other two are fedoras. Best post those in the "new hat" thread or in the Dobbs or Knox threads respectively. As for the extra pictures of the Knox Twenty: yes, please!

 

[jviss]

Thanks! Gee, I was certain that second hat was a Homburg. I guess it isn't due to the edge of the brim? I'll receive it today. So far I only have the first one in hand.

All of the pics from the eBay listing are here, plus a few fun images:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvr9dh2fkor9o2r/AACX7tDYedfBQsQvCckwlX3Ma?dl=0

 

[steur]

Thanks! Gee, I was certain that second hat was a Homburg. I guess it isn't due to the edge of the brim? I'll receive it today. So far I only have the first one in hand.

All of the pics from the eBay listing are here, plus a few fun images:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvr9dh2fkor9o2r/AACX7tDYedfBQsQvCckwlX3Ma?dl=0

The second one is a fedora with the brim up. It misses the distinctive curl a homburg has. Still a nice hat though. But not as nice as this gorgeous Knox homburg.

 

[jviss]

I received the gray one, the second one I mention, in the mail today. Slight water damage on the bottom of the box, but otherwise O.K. Hat seems well-worn, but pretty good. I cleaned it with a lint roller and a hat brush, steamed it first into an open crown, then put a center crease and a front pinch in it, and put it on. Ugh! It's way big! A closer examination of the tag reveals it's a 7 3/8, not a 7 1/8. This is confirmed by the tag inside the sweat band. Bummer! Contacted seller. I'd like to keep the box! Maybe I should just sell the hat separately.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

The next fantastic Homburg from the Norwegian-Greek Christmas gift box:
Borsalino in a medium grey with black crown ribbon and contrasting "rosé" brim binding.
Height centre dent at 11.0 cm, brim width at 5.0 cm
The (probably original) lining says imported by "Brödrene Dobloug"; the sweat I believe
was later exchanged at "Hans H. Holms" in Oslo, where the paper label was lost
(unfortunately missing). Since the lining is sewn in, I think the Borsa is from the (early?) 50s
- maybe even earlier? Does the lining perhaps give another clue?

"Brödrene Dobloug" or "Brødrene Dobloug" was a company in Oslo
founded in 1870 by the brothers Mikkel (1844-1913) and Jens Dobloug (1837-1891).
Read more here:
https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brødrene_Dobloug
https://oslobyleksikon.no/index.php/Brødrene_Dobloug
https://www.doblougsbryggeri.no/historien/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikkel_Dobloug_(politician)

1940

1953

 

[jviss]

I recently bought a black Homburg. I want a gray one, too. It seems prices of gray ones are much higher. Is this just a transient condition, or is it generally so?