Himel Bros jacket, 1st winter update

[TheDonEffect]

The thread wasn’t to praise Himel but to show the bad stitching, so balancing that out. Without posts like mine, these threads usually turn to all negative, all bashing, and all piling on. So there’s your balance.

First I acknowledged a sub par jacket. Shared a little bit about my experience and said that I do not expect perfection.

Secondly I responded to a member saying they know Himel can stitch a clean jacket so I posted my cleanly stitched Himel.

Next I acknowledged Himel isn’t the place to go for laser precise stitching.

Then I said that OP should have done things differently but despite that I see things from his perspective.

Lastly someone asked me to post more pics of my Imperial pockets, so I thought I would share my Frobisher pockets which are not 100% perfect but acceptable just like Marc’s posting of the vintage jacket.

Only thing I really posted unsolicited was the development of the leather on my Frobisher.

I’m trying to be as balanced as I can while acknowledging my own biases.

I have my biases and clearly you have yours, but sure bud, you’re right, I’m defending him.

These sort of threads escalate because of apologists who claim they're trying to be fair and balance while offering a perspective that is not pertinent or asked for with what we're talking about, such as telling the OP that he should've handled things better. OP did nothing to deserve that.

Further, Himel has a history of doing this, and his continued behavior like his recent IG post does not put him above criticism.

What balance do you feel you need to bring? You said it yourself, you don't need to defend Himel since he's clearly doing a great job at brand management.

 

[trainspotter]

I am most likely never a Himel target customer. His offerings are atleast twice as expensive as I am currently prepared to pay for a leather jacket - Field Leathers being my current max. That may change in future(hopefully for the better), but I doubt it will double...

Having said that, the kind of feedback I have encountered here about Himel speaks very poorly on the overall value his jackets represent. The proportion of unsatisfied to happy customers seems way too high compared to other high, mid-high tier brands like RMC, FW, FL , Y2, Aero and even Schott

I have handled tens of leather jackets, most in thicker leather than Himel generally uses. And while I don't go around looking for wonky stitching and empty stitch holes, I don't think I have ever seen these kind of stitching flaws in even Aero Apprentice jackets

If I were ever to spend close to this much money on a leather jacket, Himel is certainly out of my list

 

[marker2037]

If he just said that he would remake the jacket, this thread would be a non-starter.

Instead…

 

[jeo]

These sort of threads escalate because of apologists who claim they're trying to be fair and balance while offering a perspective that is not pertinent or asked for with what we're talking about, such as telling the OP that he should've handled things better. OP did nothing to deserve that.

Further, Himel has a history of doing this, and his continued behavior like his recent IG post does not put him above criticism.

What balance do you feel you need to bring? You said it yourself, you don't need to defend Himel since he's clearly doing a great job at brand management.

Excuse me?! Sorry, no.

Threads like this escalate because of people who contribute absolutely nothing of value besides their, usually extremely negative and inflammatory opinions that serves no purpose.

A real contribution to the thread and to the community.

I’m one of the few trying to bring positivity into the thread.

As I laid out, my posts were pertinent and directly related to either a comment made by another member or what was being discussed.

While I totally believe in everyone’s right, including yours, to post their opinions, your first and second post in this thread were just ‘piling on’ opinion posts. It was you saying how it’s unacceptable and that you would want a remake and just generally negative comments that bring zero value.

Now you’re calling me names, saying I’m an apologist. Ok, that’s your opinion. I’ve admitted that I have a bias. You’re only seeing this from the “let’s burn Himel down” angle.

I think most here would agree that OP should have handled this privately and reach a resolution before posting publicly. That would have been the right thing to do, while you yourself said you would post a negative review first because you know you’ll be wasting a ton of time trying to reach a resolution privately. Just shows us your mindset.

If I bought a HB and had an issue, I'd probably post a negative review here first since I pretty much know at this point I will be wasting a ton of time trying to get a hold of them and trying to make it right.

And now we’re going back and forth arguing and who is to blame?

You quoted me first saying that if I think the OPs jacket is jacked, which I do, then why am I defending Himel. Go back and read, not once did I defend Himel in regards to the OPs jacket. In fact it was quite the opposite. So you made a false statement.

My “defending” of Himel in other posts was me trying to show that it’s not all bad when it comes to Himel. Trying to bring some positive, some balance. If you don’t think that’s pertinent then that also shows us where your head is at. I think most people here appreciated it.

What balance do I feel I need to bring? Same as you feeling the need to share your opinion.

I know you’re not going to let this go so this will be my last post in this thread. You can have the last word if you want so have at it boss.

 

[JMax]

You get angry way too fast Jeo. Take it easy. Balance is key? Inflammatory? I remember a time when, with rolling eyes, you told me, who just had issue with his use of the term bespoke, to shut up. Then you continued to aggressively defend Himel and acted poorly when the term fraud was thrown out by some members. As if you are some expert on what constitutes fraud or some sort of arbiter of what is posted on TFL. Too bad you got all huffy for no reason and told me to shut up. I only, 15 or so years ago, was chief of a federal fraud unit in a big city. Maybe some balance could have been achieved.

 

[jonbuilder]

Himel on Instagram. The inconsistent stitch length is due to the use of cotton thread. But hard to explain to amateurs.

View attachment 508700

My amateur eye tells me my cotton thread stitched Albert Richard shows quite consistent stitch length. But I don't actually sew myself of course. (Neither does Himel).

View attachment 508702 View attachment 508703 View attachment 508704 View attachment 508705

what does this have to do with the OP 6-month updated review, IMO.you are looking for any opportunity to bash Himel.
I seem to remember you were on the other side of the fence a couple of months back when someone here was knocking Thedi's jackets

 

[navetsea]

Himel on Instagram. The inconsistent stitch length is due to the use of cotton thread. But hard to explain to amateurs.

View attachment 508700

My amateur eye tells me my cotton thread stitched Albert Richard shows quite consistent stitch length. But I don't actually sew myself of course. (Neither does Himel).

View attachment 508702 View attachment 508703 View attachment 508704 View attachment 508705

using cotton thread in a current and future world where material cost is cheaper and going to be cheaper than service fee especially "his fee" and posting cost and potential tax is a wrong thinking... even jeans is sewn with polycore thread and I have not seen one example of jeans cotton fabric is ruined by the thread , while leather is or should be a much stronger material than any woven cotton.

if poly/ nylon thread can cut leather along the stitching holes along the seam then who (other than Fine Creek leather obviously) would want to use that kind of fragile leather for a jacket, if he really want to use cotton thread then at least use bigger gauge don't use vegtan leather, because vegtan leather can stretch out while being wet and stay stretched so then the stitching is going to be in much higher tension permanently until its broken.

from what I can see the only advantage is cotton thread will fade or change color look aged like the rest of the jacket or can be dyed or re-dyed

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

There seems to be a few camps here.

1. I think we all fall in this camp (don't recall anyone arguing otherwise) is that the jacket that started this post is not good and does not represent a high end jacket and/or a brand that seems to boast about its high quality.

2. another camp has spoken up to note that not all HB jackets are to this bad standard and that those of us who have HB jackets that we enjoy, we are happy with our purchase and don't believe the whole brand should be tarnished over this and some other notable problem jackets. This is a natural position because a) the good jackets are worthy and/or b) we have a natural defense mechanism to want to back up our purchase. Yet in no way are we saying that forgives the bad jackets, just that there's another side to the coin.

3. yet another camp is insisting that HB is not good, not worth it, etc. They've seen enough bad instances of bad jackets, and their mind is made up.

4. A variation of camp 3, where not only are the HB bad jackets not good, but "all" HB jackets are not worthy of the praise, price, etc. and that the happy customers are somehow blind or ignorant.

What's most important is that we all agree that Damon's jacket is bad. End of story. Or so you would think.

I'm not saying Himmel is handling this correctly. But I don't understand what that has to do with those of us who are happy with his jackets. If you don't like Himmel or his jackets, don't buy one. And in the spirit of sharing your opinion on a forum, openly say you don't like it or you don't think it's worth the money. But to taunt the people who do like them, I don't get it.

 

[navetsea]

I think he just need to hire a better machinist. or subcontract it to a workshop with better machinist. with his prices I think it has enough room to do that.

 

[Aloysius]

I think he just need to hire a better machinist. or subcontract it to a workshop with better machinist. with his prices I think it has enough room to do that.

I think his machinist is skilled. You can tell it by the good jackets and by the non problem area of the bad jackets. The problem is he’s being either rushed or overworked.

Himel’s site, collaborations, RTW lines etc suggest a huge operation but it’s resting on one machinist. It would be a lot even for two or three.

As a result (actually quite understandably) QC seems to be as Mr Proper suggested—i.e. don’t bother with it because only 10% of customers will pay attention. And there isn’t much way to bring out more consistency from one overworked machinist without allowing him to take more time and delay orders.

 

[jeo]

I said I wouldn't post in this thread again but I have to respond to you jmax.

You're using this belittling statements towards me like you would say to a child "take it easy" and that I get angry too quickly as if I'm out of line yelling and screaming at people. Not true. Please don't do that.

Where did you see anger in my last post jmax? Please point it out to me so I can get better.

Was my last post contentious? Sure. I was called names so I felt the need to defend myself from his post (and now yours) But despite that I don't see any anger at all in my last post.

This is also the second time you've told me to take it easy. Last time was in that last Himel thread where you're saying I told you to shut up. I just re- read it, no where did I even come close to telling you to shut up, but thank you for saying that.

All I did was argue my opinions just like this time and instead of a civil conversation or even an argument between us, instead you "bowed out" and told me to take it easy. Is that your MO?

And no, I'm not an expert on fraud (but it seems like you are) and I most certainly do not think I'm an arbiter of anything posted on TFL. I don't even think I've changed anyone's mind let alone arbitrate issues we discuss/argue.

You share your opinions, am I not allowed to share mine?

 

[navetsea]

I think his machinist is skilled. You can tell it by the good jackets and by the non problem area of the bad jackets. The problem is he’s being either rushed or overworked.

Himel’s site, collaborations, RTW lines etc suggest a huge operation but it’s resting on one machinist. It would be a lot even for two or three.

As a result (actually quite understandably) QC seems to be as Mr Proper suggested—i.e. don’t bother with it because only 10% of customers will pay attention. And there isn’t much way to bring out more consistency from one overworked machinist without allowing him to take more time and delay orders.

yeah but you get the advantage if you as a label owner subcontract it to a workshop then you can demand them to fix their errors at their cost, if you do it yourself you might save cost to get more profit but if your own crew didn't do it properly then it's on you

 

[Aloysius]

yeah but you get the advantage if you as a label owner subcontract it to a workshop then you can demand them to fix their errors at their cost, if you do it yourself you might save cost to get more profit but if your own crew didn't do it properly then it's on you

Also a good point. Either way there need to be more people sewing.

 

[tmitchell59]

If David Himel is reading this he has probably turned from anger to amusement, at this point why even do anything?

I would guess any effort by the owner of this jacket to have this situation remedied is now defunct.

The point is lost.

The thread is dead.

 

[JMax]

TM- really? Only one person can supply the remedy and he isn’t posting here.

No need to close. Jeo and I don’t see eye to eye. We can leave it at that. All good. Plus, I’ve had a long day and still have a long night ahead. This thread just won my partner the honor of paying for and getting my snacks for the evening.

BTW all, he thinks I’m stupid for being on TFL. Lol. He is the real enemy.

@Damon141 — I would rock that Himel, even if the resolution isn’t exactly what you want. Now, I will follow my “MO”, bow out from this thread and stick to it.

 

[red devil]

what does this have to do with the OP 6-month updated review, IMO.you are looking for any opportunity to bash Himel.
I seem to remember you were on the other side of the fence a couple of months back when someone here was knocking Thedi's jackets

Good question, Himel is trying to justify the bad jacket he sold the OP. He is trying to build support for his brand. So it is an indirect reply to the issue here.

Yes we all tend to defend our favourite brands, it is normal while other will point out the bad points - whether legitimate or not.

As an aside, Thedi was quick to offer a refund in the case I have seen here. I highly doubt he would have tried to justify such a bad jacket as a "handmade product".

There seems to be a few camps here.

1. I think we all fall in this camp (don't recall anyone arguing otherwise) is that the jacket that started this post is not good and does not represent a high end jacket and/or a brand that seems to boast about its high quality.

2. another camp has spoken up to note that not all HB jackets are to this bad standard and that those of us who have HB jackets that we enjoy, we are happy with our purchase and don't believe the whole brand should be tarnished over this and some other notable problem jackets. This is a natural position because a) the good jackets are worthy and/or b) we have a natural defense mechanism to want to back up our purchase. Yet in no way are we saying that forgives the bad jackets, just that there's another side to the coin.

3. yet another camp is insisting that HB is not good, not worth it, etc. They've seen enough bad instances of bad jackets, and their mind is made up.

4. A variation of camp 3, where not only are the HB bad jackets not good, but "all" HB jackets are not worthy of the praise, price, etc. and that the happy customers are somehow blind or ignorant.

What's most important is that we all agree that Damon's jacket is bad. End of story. Or so you would think.

I'm not saying Himmel is handling this correctly. But I don't understand what that has to do with those of us who are happy with his jackets. If you don't like Himmel or his jackets, don't buy one. And in the spirit of sharing your opinion on a forum, openly say you don't like it or you don't think it's worth the money. But to taunt the people who do like them, I don't get it.

Good recap, I am in camp 3 I think, there have been indeed too many QC disasters and I do not like how he passes on bad jackets because his "Tribe" will not notice or be too embarrassed to complain.

On the other hand, I have not seen anything like camp 4. Nobody is belittling Himel owners, it has been established that he can make good jackets when he wants to.

Is his machinist overworked? Is he using a less skilled machinist in some jackets? Who know? But this could be addressed by spending more on machinists.

 

[red devil]

If David Himel is reading this he has probably turned from anger to amusement, at this point why even do anything?

I would guess any effort by the owner of this jacket to have this situation remedied is now defunct.

The point is lost.

The thread is dead.

Considering how he is posting on Instagram, I do not think he is amused.

He wasn't amused last thread about a QC disaster

 

[58panheadfan]

... The thread is dead.

+1
Ultimately, the manufacturer is only obliged to its customers, but certainly not to a general forum member and especially not to a forum member who has never owned or will buy a Himel Bros leather jacket. OP and manufacturer should find a decent solution outside of this forum. It doesn't need any feedback from OP in this thread afterwards either, it can be closed. I'm not expecting any comments from the manufacturer either. Silence is golden.

 

[MrProper]

The thread is dead.

Long live the thread.

I don't know what you all (ok, some) have. I find this thread very entertaining. And as long as no one is personally attacked/insulted, I would see no reason to close the thread.
If this is getting to be too much for someone, he can stop reading this thread.

 

[red devil]

+1 OP and manufacturer should find a decent solution outside of this forum. It doesn't need any feedback from OP in this thread afterwards either, it can be closed.

Edit: I'm not expecting any comments from the manufacturer either. Silence is golden.

The OP was told that he would get an answer on his chosen complaint platform was he not?

This thread is still going strong, and will keep doing so as long as Himel avoids posting here but continues posting on Instagram trying to justify himself.

The best way to end this thread would be for him to post here, but he seems to lack the backbone to do so.